277 réponses à ce sujet

[AegisSir]

If there was a DLC to become a turian from mass effect I'd buy it. :3

[Persephone]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

That... would be quite the extrapolation.

Maybe so on our part. But it's just normative human psychology: take away something from ppl, and they will feel discouraged. If we never had one it'd be more okay, but we had one in DA:O and not in DA2, so it's only natural that ppl are guessing.

The DAO toolset came so quickly due to a release delay, giving the devs an additional six months to work on it. Give it time. Nothing has been confirmed yet, either way.

[Saintthanksgiving]

I never said there was anything wrong with making money
Good for Bioware.
The thing is, its MY money they are making. So I am gonna say something if I am not happy with what I paid for.
I paid the same price for a game that provided less game than the first. Now I am starting to suspect that the things that were removed in the second game are being ransomed back to me piece by piece.

oh and before we have fifty people give me the Spicolli, I am well aware that this is just "My Opinion" If the only thing allowed in this forum was Proven scientific fact, well it it would probably just be a FAQ.

[Beerfish]

I would guess the existence of the toolset has little effect on DLC sales. One would have to do a survey of just how many people use mods and how many of them do not buy because of the mods. The reason for the toolset being in limbo is a time and resource issue in my mind.

[Maverick827]

I'm going to be really blunt here: even if this were true, which I do not believe it is, I honestly would not care.

BioWare is a for-profit company and, as such, they expect to get paid for the work that they do. They put in the time and effort to make new armor and weapon models, then they should be paid for that work. If they find that any person or thing was harming their due revenue, such as pirating, then they are well within their rights to attempt to undermine said person or thing. If, then, they perceived the toolset as such, I have absolutely no qualms with them no longer supporting it.

Is it and ideal outcome? No. Is it an abominable thing to do? No. Was "a toolset with every game" ever granted to you under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights back in 1948? No, so stop acting like it.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Speaking for myself, when I got my free copy of Mass Effect 2 for PC, I went out and purchased most of the DLC.
(Think about how much money was made by people doing exactly what I did, and that "generous gift to loyal fans" becomes a little suspect too)  To the best of my knowledge there arent any signifigant mods to ME.  If there are, I dont know of them.  So in my case, the abscence of any user generated content did play some role in my decision to purchase DLC.  

Would mods preclude me from buying content in DA2?  Maybe.  Would I buy an appearance pack if I knew I could go online and download 50 differents heads for Bethany? probably not.  Would I buy "AWAKENINGS 2"?  Yeah I would.  

Again thats just me, I dont claim to represent all PC users ALL the time.  

[David Gaider]

Speakeasy13 wrote...
Maybe so on our part. But it's just normative human psychology: take away something from ppl, and they will feel discouraged. If we never had one it'd be more okay, but we had one in DA:O and not in DA2, so it's only natural that ppl are guessing.

I'm not certain how we're "taking something away" when a toolset has never been promised or even hinted at, and was a free extra for DAO primarily available because of the delay of release after the game's completion. Does a free extra for one game mean it's a promise for the sequel? If you believe so, then fair enough, but I'm afraid that so long as something is both "extra" and "free" it's very likely going to be on the "when we can" list.

Is that an official statement? By no means. I think BioWare is well aware that there are plenty of PC users who would love to have such an update. There are also users who would like patches, and DLC, and no doubt a great many other things... so we'll do what we can. That's all I can really say, sorry.

Modifié par David Gaider, 27 avril 2011 - 10:44 .

[gotthammer]

Well, considering the current state of the game, I really do wish they'd release an updated toolset (along w/ a free 'Enhanced Edition' upgrade, or whatever, to 'fix' the core game).

In the meantime, I'll just go with: "No toolset = no buy (of DLCs/expansions)"

[TUHD]

Hm. While this thread *could* be an interesting discussion in itself, it lacks a few points to make an discussion.
A) Bioware never promised an toolset for DA2 - people just assumed an updated toolset would be released
There are (as far as I know) no quality surveys yet whether Dragon Age mods affect/have affected sales.

There may be a few other things I've missed that are lacking too...

To repeat: could be an interesting discussion, if any proof of some sort for either side of the debate has to be had.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Maverick, for the third time, I never said there was anything wrong with making money.  If Bioware had come to me 6 months ago and told me that DA2 was going to cost me a hundred bucks... I would have paid it.  I also would have been 40 bucks more pissed off after I played it.  I have been a Bioware fan since NWN.  They have plenty of my money already, and they were welcome to plenty more.  My point is, if this is what I am supposed to expect from them; They arent getting another dime.  If there are enough people out there who let Bioware know they arent satisfied with the product, and Bioware listens, we can all resume our buisness relationship.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Just to qualify Mr. Gaider's comments again, there has been no confirmation or denial of a toolset release... But-

After the issues of the auto attack being missing from the console version AFTER it was promised, Bioware's credibility isn't exactly pristine right now.

The obvious question that hangs in the air, and please dont crucify me for saying it, because I am in NO WAY saying that this is definitely the case....But-

In light of the existing ----storm already going on (especially with PC users) If no toolset was coming, what would it benefit Bioware sharing that information with you?

[Maverick827]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

My point is, if this is what I am supposed to expect from them; They arent getting another dime. If there are enough people out there who let Bioware know they arent satisfied with the product, and Bioware listens, we can all resume our buisness relationship.

My point is that what you are expecting is unfair. You say you do not mind them making money, but then say you are disappointed by the way in which they are making money. This makes absolutely no sense.

You can be dissatisfied with the end product all you want, just don't attack the distribution method for it; it makes it look like you're simply reaching for a coherent point to make because "I didn't like the game" wasn't as easy to support as "they took 'er toolset!"

[Speakeasy13]

David Gaider wrote...

I'm not certain how we're "taking something away" when a toolset has never been promised or even hinted at, and was a free extra for DAO primarily available because of the delay of release after the game's completion. Is a free extra for one game mean it's a promise for the sequel? If you believe so, then fair enough, but I'm afraid that so long as something is both "extra" and "free" it's very likely going to be on the "when we can" list.

Is that an official statement? By no means. I think BioWare is well aware that there are plenty of PC users who would love to have such an update. There are also users who would like patches, and DLC, and no doubt a great many other things... so we'll do what we can. That's all I can really say, sorry.

You're not wrong. It's just that ppl don't really make that distinction. I'm not even talking about myself (heck I don't even use mods all that much); I'm just using generic perception management here. The DA:O toolset may be "extra" and "free", but it was intergral to many PC players' experience, and contributed greatly to the perception that "DA:O has great value for its asking price" (which is almost universally agreed upon); now when DA2 rolled around, ppl expect more or less the same level of value, and when it doesn't come bigger and better, ppl will automatically compare it to DA:O and think to emselves. "DA2 has less value" (which may or may not be true).

And maybe the lack of an official statement is kind of the problem here? I've worked in PR long enough to know that doing things according to conventional corporate wisdom doesn't always work for niche businesses (but then again Bioware may not see themselves as one); I personally would much rather some1 officially came along and said the exact same thing you said "we'll get to it when we can; no promises tho" than this awkward silence. A little honesty goes a long way.

[Saintthanksgiving]

I am dissatisfied with the end product.  I felt that I paid for a game that I didnt get.
I am dissatisfied with the delivery method insomuch as now I am finding out that I might get the game I wanted, but I will pay extra for it, in pieces

[TUHD]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

I am dissatisfied with the end product.  I felt that I paid for a game that I didnt get.
I am dissatisfied with the delivery method insomuch as now I am finding out that I might get the game I wanted, but I will pay extra for it, in pieces

Somehow you got more info about any story DLC then we do. Please enlighten this forum - both the DA2-likers as well as DA2-dislikers, since this one that hasn't been pulled very often yet on this game.

[Brockololly]

I think the thing is that DA started and for a good, long time while in development was a PC only game. And DAO having a toolset for mods was part of that PC heritage that BioWare at the time was trying to tap into considering NWN's toolset and the whole "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate" deal.

Come the shift in direction with DA2, you already have the gameplay changes ditching the more traditional BG style and with the quick turnaround and console focus, you lack the toolset support, which really goes back to even how Awakening's assets weren't enabled for use with the Origins toolset.

Really, an updated toolset to allow for more effective modding would likely help DLC sales on the PC and maybe even sales of the PC version of the game- I certainly bought some of Origins' DLC since I was still playing the game with mods and I know quite a few people who bought the PC version of Origins after learning of some of the mods. While obviously BioWare has a good amount of other stuff to do and limited resources, its a shame if they abandon the mod community as they're a great resource and can bring great longevity to games- just look at Bethesda's continued support of their modding community through each release. It usually makes the games more attractive and increases their longevity greatly.

[Ariella]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

I am dissatisfied with the end product.  I felt that I paid for a game that I didnt get.
I am dissatisfied with the delivery method insomuch as now I am finding out that I might get the game I wanted, but I will pay extra for it, in pieces

You did get a game, Saint, just not the game you WANTED. Be fair.

[Ariella]

Brockololly wrote...

I think the thing is that DA started and for a good, long time while in development was a PC only game. And DAO having a toolset for mods was part of that PC heritage that BioWare at the time was trying to tap into considering NWN's toolset and the whole "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate" deal.

Come the shift in direction with DA2, you already have the gameplay changes ditching the more traditional BG style and with the quick turnaround and console focus, you lack the toolset support, which really goes back to even how Awakening's assets weren't enabled for use with the Origins toolset.

Really, an updated toolset to allow for more effective modding would likely help DLC sales on the PC and maybe even sales of the PC version of the game- I certainly bought some of Origins' DLC since I was still playing the game with mods and I know quite a few people who bought the PC version of Origins after learning of some of the mods. While obviously BioWare has a good amount of other stuff to do and limited resources, its a shame if they abandon the mod community as they're a great resource and can bring great longevity to games- just look at Bethesda's continued support of their modding community through each release. It usually makes the games more attractive and increases their longevity greatly.

Considering they have three different systems to patch the original game and write DLC for, a piece of programming that affects only one sector of those three is probably way down on the priority list.

[Saintthanksgiving]

I said MIGHT.  The only information I am drawing from is what I have seen in DA2, including todays events, and what Bioware already did with Mass Effect.  Someone said that the DLC armor released today isnt for companions.  I didnt download it obviously, I just read the advertisement on the DA2 page.  If that is true I apologize for the confusion.  Regardless, the questions I am asking remain valid even if for now it only applies to items

[FellowerOfOdin]

Yeesh guys, give David a break and stop jumping to conclusions. Those are among the nicest posts he's ever made and he is willing to step up and share some information with us - he is honest with us. He says nothing but the truth and he gets critized for that? That's ridiculous. Would you haters have preferred him to come out, say that the toolset (update) is getting near and then be disappointed when in the end, people who are in charge decide to scrap it?

No. David is honest, he gives us nothing but a status update. It certainly aren't good news and seeing older posts by Bioware, this more careful stance might cause some irritation or uproar, but it's the best thing Bioware / David can do: be honest. There's nothing more you could ask for.

If only Mike Laidlaw would choose the same route.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Ariella I have been as clear as I can that everything I am writing in this thread is pure opinion.

My other threads remain bible truth.  :innocent:

I dont think I jumped down the guy's throat, but to be honest telling me that the Toolset may or may not happen isnt exactly an update.  I do appreciate that he took the time to join the discussion. 
-----
EDIT:  Upon review, this would have been a very opportune time to suggest that Mr. Gaider "suck it up"  Too bad I missed the opportunity.... or did I? 
-----

Modifié par Saintthanksgiving, 28 avril 2011 - 01:07 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

Filament wrote...

Mike Laidlaw used to post here frequently (and just as candidly). I don't blame him for ending that relationship.

He left both the forums and reality.

[Ariella]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

Ariella I have been as clear as I can that everything I am writing in this thread is pure opinion.

My other threads remain bible truth.  :innocent:

I dont think I jumped down the guy's throat, but to be honest telling me that the Toolset may or may not happen isnt exactly an update.  I do appreciate that he took the time to join the discussion. 

Bible truth? Which Bible? Hebrew or the various Catholic and Protestant translations?

And I'm not just talking about your behavior in this thread, Saint, but in all of them. It'd feels a lot like Chicken Little (the original story, not the Disney remake) when you post. All you can say is the sky is falling and it's the end of the world as we know it, and you rarely want to engage in rational debate. If the toolset happens it happens, but my suggestion for you, Saint, is rather than looking for the storm clouds, look for a silver lining. It'll do a lot for the blood pressure of you and many others here, myself included.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Lets not turn this into a Dev bashing thread. I cant hand out torches and pitchforks to my group of angry villagers if they lock the thread.