It would be nice if someone in the know would comment on the status of a patch to the DA:O toolset or such.
I would think a patch to the exisiting toolset to add the new/redesigned assets would be the easiest route.
The Fundamental Motivation behind the Toolset being dropped
Débuté par
Saintthanksgiving
, avril 27 2011 05:57
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#52
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 10:48
Rockpopple
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I noticed Saint's never admitted lying about the new DLC - not only calling it an "Appearance Pack" (in bold no less! Sure looks official to me) - which it isn't - but claiming it changes the companion's appearance - which it also doesn't.
Not that I'm expecting him to admit that he lied, or at the very least was mistaken. That would take a certain... oh... je ne sais quoi, I suppose. =P
Not that I'm expecting him to admit that he lied, or at the very least was mistaken. That would take a certain... oh... je ne sais quoi, I suppose. =P
Modifié par Rockpopple, 27 avril 2011 - 10:52 .
#53
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 10:50
Saintthanksgiving
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I looked... the only silver lining I found was on Fenris' rear end.... heyo!
but honestly, its only because I loved Origins that I am so bent out of shape. I'm not alone either.
I have a responsibility as a brilliant charismatic leader to serve as a voice for the people who arent satisfied with what they got.
If you want me to say something positive, fine.
The companions, excluding the family members, were very well done. Except that they are wearing ten year old clothes.
but honestly, its only because I loved Origins that I am so bent out of shape. I'm not alone either.
I have a responsibility as a brilliant charismatic leader to serve as a voice for the people who arent satisfied with what they got.
If you want me to say something positive, fine.
The companions, excluding the family members, were very well done. Except that they are wearing ten year old clothes.
Modifié par Saintthanksgiving, 27 avril 2011 - 10:53 .
#54
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 10:52
Saintthanksgiving
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Saintthanksgiving wrote...
I said MIGHT. The only information I am drawing from is what I have seen in DA2, including todays events, and what Bioware already did with Mass Effect. Someone said that the DLC armor released today isnt for companions. I didnt download it obviously, I just read the advertisement on the DA2 page. If that is true I apologize for the confusion. Regardless, the questions I am asking remain valid even if for now it only applies to items
I didn't lie, I read the advertisement wrong... and I admitted it.
I even edited the orignal thread to correct the mistake.
Now who owes who some sort of mea culpa?
#55
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 10:52
TUHD
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Saintthanksgiving wrote...
I have a responsibility as a brilliant charismatic leader to serve as a voice for the people who arent satisfied with what they got.
*wonders when STG got chosen as 'the leader of those who didn't like what they got'*
Modifié par TUHD, 27 avril 2011 - 10:53 .
#56
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 10:53
Ottemis
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Let's break it down a bit yeah.
We got the toolset for DA:O, they had extra time on their hands and spent it bundling their own software packages into one program that we could use to create custom content. Obviously combining all the builders together was complicated, as was getting the toolset to function on home-computers without the functionality of dependant third-party software and a serverpark behind it.
It took a long time for people to learn to work with it, tons of bugs and (still) workarounds to get it to work halfly properly, which is not me complaining.. it's logical cause and effect.
Aside from giving us that for free, as flawed as it initially was logicly, they kept supporting the community in using it and bringing out updates for a long time. They gave their time and effort to us.
Honestly, even though it's been said that the tools they used making DA2 were basicly just the upgraded version of what they used for DA:O.. that by no means would mean it's easy to provide it to us, with our home-computers.. lacking (again) vital third party software they would need to find solutions for.
It's a time consuming thing, and I would suspect that if there have been no plans in the making of DA2 to also give us an upgraded version of the toolset, it's either not going to come, or we'll have to wait quite some time for it still.
I'm very happy we got the initial toolset, I can understand what an undertaking it must have been, it having been free does by no means mean it was EASY for them.
So respect where it's due, and gratitude really. If there's going to be an update for DA2 that would be awesome, if not, tough luck. I'll be happily modding on the initial one.
We got the toolset for DA:O, they had extra time on their hands and spent it bundling their own software packages into one program that we could use to create custom content. Obviously combining all the builders together was complicated, as was getting the toolset to function on home-computers without the functionality of dependant third-party software and a serverpark behind it.
It took a long time for people to learn to work with it, tons of bugs and (still) workarounds to get it to work halfly properly, which is not me complaining.. it's logical cause and effect.
Aside from giving us that for free, as flawed as it initially was logicly, they kept supporting the community in using it and bringing out updates for a long time. They gave their time and effort to us.
Honestly, even though it's been said that the tools they used making DA2 were basicly just the upgraded version of what they used for DA:O.. that by no means would mean it's easy to provide it to us, with our home-computers.. lacking (again) vital third party software they would need to find solutions for.
It's a time consuming thing, and I would suspect that if there have been no plans in the making of DA2 to also give us an upgraded version of the toolset, it's either not going to come, or we'll have to wait quite some time for it still.
I'm very happy we got the initial toolset, I can understand what an undertaking it must have been, it having been free does by no means mean it was EASY for them.
So respect where it's due, and gratitude really. If there's going to be an update for DA2 that would be awesome, if not, tough luck. I'll be happily modding on the initial one.
#57
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 10:54
Rockpopple
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"If that is true, I apologize for the confusion".
Wow. That's one of those non-apology apologies, innit? Like "If I offended anyone by doing the marigold on the street buck naked, then I apologize".
. Do you - by any chance - work in politics?
But fair is fair. You did apologize. Kinda-Sorta. You could do yourself a favour and edit out the lie in your opening post. JUST SAYIN' :innocent:
Wow. That's one of those non-apology apologies, innit? Like "If I offended anyone by doing the marigold on the street buck naked, then I apologize".
. Do you - by any chance - work in politics? But fair is fair. You did apologize. Kinda-Sorta. You could do yourself a favour and edit out the lie in your opening post. JUST SAYIN' :innocent:
Modifié par Rockpopple, 27 avril 2011 - 10:56 .
#58
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 11:00
Ariella
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Saintthanksgiving wrote...
I looked... the only silver lining I found was on Fenris' rear end.... heyo!
but honestly, its only because I loved Origins that I am so bent out of shape. I'm not alone either.
I have a responsibility as a brilliant charismatic leader to serve as a voice for the people who arent satisfied with what they got.
If you want me to say something positive, fine.
The companions, excluding the family members, were very well done. Except that they are wearing ten year old clothes.
I thought Fenris was more lily white, than silver, and I can even understand being bent out of shape, I loved Origins too. Origins actually got me through some rather tough bits so I have a great fondness for the game, so I don't blame you in the least for loving it.
It'd just a little less militancy and a little more charisma in your word choice would be great.
And Aveline gets three costume changes, whom ever Hawke romances gets one (IIRC), which is more than I can say for the Hobbits in the LotR movies (sorry just watched the appedices recently and the costuming bits stuck in my head)
#59
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 11:20
Saintthanksgiving
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Ottemis, I think that is a very fair assesment, but allow me to retort... a little.
Dragon Age Origins shipped with the toolset included as part of the
game. People purchased DAO, and the toolset came right along with it. Many people, even people in this thread said that their purchase of the game was influenced, at some level, by the inclusion of the toolset. Other
people said that the toolset added Longevity
well beyond what the game may have had otherwise. What I am trying to
say is, the toolset was part of the game that people purchased.
Mr. Gaider maintains that it was a free giveaway, donated out of the kindness of Bioware's heart due to a release delay. He can say that, and prior to the release of DAO it may have been entirely true. Once the game shipped however, freebie or not it was part of the game. A HUGE part of the game.
I dont think anyone will argue that at some point during DAO's sales, the toolset played a positive role and made Bioware more money.
To sum it up, if the toolset was a flop you can chalk it up to a "freebie" or a "throw in."
When it contributes to the success of the franchise, it becomes part of the game.
If Bioware ran the numbers, and the money that could be made by trashing the toolset was more than the money in keeping it.... well I guess thats the answer that I am looking for. Judging by the numbers being thrown around these forums (that I am assuming are accurate for the sake of argument) They may have chosen poorly.
Now everyone erupt in anger about my disgusting ingrattitude to the Devs who were just trying to do something nice.
... and then dont forget to yell at me again when I say something that might suggest that Bioware shouldnt choose to make as much money as possible, at every single opportunity, regardless of its effect on the fanbase.
Dragon Age Origins shipped with the toolset included as part of the
game. People purchased DAO, and the toolset came right along with it. Many people, even people in this thread said that their purchase of the game was influenced, at some level, by the inclusion of the toolset. Other
people said that the toolset added Longevity
well beyond what the game may have had otherwise. What I am trying to
say is, the toolset was part of the game that people purchased.
Mr. Gaider maintains that it was a free giveaway, donated out of the kindness of Bioware's heart due to a release delay. He can say that, and prior to the release of DAO it may have been entirely true. Once the game shipped however, freebie or not it was part of the game. A HUGE part of the game.
I dont think anyone will argue that at some point during DAO's sales, the toolset played a positive role and made Bioware more money.
To sum it up, if the toolset was a flop you can chalk it up to a "freebie" or a "throw in."
When it contributes to the success of the franchise, it becomes part of the game.
If Bioware ran the numbers, and the money that could be made by trashing the toolset was more than the money in keeping it.... well I guess thats the answer that I am looking for. Judging by the numbers being thrown around these forums (that I am assuming are accurate for the sake of argument) They may have chosen poorly.
Now everyone erupt in anger about my disgusting ingrattitude to the Devs who were just trying to do something nice.
... and then dont forget to yell at me again when I say something that might suggest that Bioware shouldnt choose to make as much money as possible, at every single opportunity, regardless of its effect on the fanbase.
#60
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 11:31
YohkoOhno
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I think the Toolset is less important now than it was.
A few things changed in BW games.
1) NWN was the big "comes with a toolset" game. The big deal with those games were they were designed to be both Multiplayer and Single Player modules. They were using the D&D 3.0 ruleset, and had the advantage of attracting the PnP audience who liked to write that stuff. Dragon Age is its own setting and doesn't have that built-in audience.
2) It's simply a lot harder to create adventures now. With DA:O and DA2 setting the bar high, we now expect strong cinematics, voice acting for all the characters (including the protagonist), and the graphics are a lot more sophisticated. This makes it a lot harder to create your own adventures. How many modules have been created for DAO compared to NWN? As such, I see the amount of effort to support a toolset or even the appeal of it to be less than it was for NWN.
A few things changed in BW games.
1) NWN was the big "comes with a toolset" game. The big deal with those games were they were designed to be both Multiplayer and Single Player modules. They were using the D&D 3.0 ruleset, and had the advantage of attracting the PnP audience who liked to write that stuff. Dragon Age is its own setting and doesn't have that built-in audience.
2) It's simply a lot harder to create adventures now. With DA:O and DA2 setting the bar high, we now expect strong cinematics, voice acting for all the characters (including the protagonist), and the graphics are a lot more sophisticated. This makes it a lot harder to create your own adventures. How many modules have been created for DAO compared to NWN? As such, I see the amount of effort to support a toolset or even the appeal of it to be less than it was for NWN.
#61
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 11:45
RinpocheSchnozberry
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A toolset would rock the house like a machine made by dragons out of the bones of giant bears and imbued with the tortured souls of rock golem poets, expressedly for the purpose of putting houses to sleep when the houses had maybe seen a movie that scared them or they had had too much soda late at night and so had trouble sleeping.
I'm not implying that a tool set would put large, inanimate objects that you can go inside to sleep, though I can see how you might get that impression, but rather I am suggesting that a tool set would be huge and powerful.
I'm not complaining that BeeDubs has spent time on DLC either, since I exchanged five bucks for the DLC and you guys totally made with the mage pants which was ****ING SWEET. Seriously, lap dances at the Snakehole Lounge for everyone involved in the making of more (and cool looking) mage pants.
In closing, the mod community has already done some sweet stuff... But most of the things I like to tweak are actually built into the game! I know the porn mods will be delayed by not having a tool set, and I'm content with that for the moment. But honestly, have you seen Hawkette in her Frederick of Kirkwall's? A great mix of athletic and feminine, very nicely done. My single complaint might be the hand textures, but... Hawke isn't exactly a white collar worker. Hawke is going to have some rough looking hands.
In the end, I'd love to see a toolset, just for the crazy stuff people will do with it and the half dozen neat stories we're bound to see from it.
I'm not implying that a tool set would put large, inanimate objects that you can go inside to sleep, though I can see how you might get that impression, but rather I am suggesting that a tool set would be huge and powerful.
I'm not complaining that BeeDubs has spent time on DLC either, since I exchanged five bucks for the DLC and you guys totally made with the mage pants which was ****ING SWEET. Seriously, lap dances at the Snakehole Lounge for everyone involved in the making of more (and cool looking) mage pants.
In closing, the mod community has already done some sweet stuff... But most of the things I like to tweak are actually built into the game! I know the porn mods will be delayed by not having a tool set, and I'm content with that for the moment. But honestly, have you seen Hawkette in her Frederick of Kirkwall's? A great mix of athletic and feminine, very nicely done. My single complaint might be the hand textures, but... Hawke isn't exactly a white collar worker. Hawke is going to have some rough looking hands.
In the end, I'd love to see a toolset, just for the crazy stuff people will do with it and the half dozen neat stories we're bound to see from it.
#62
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 11:48
Guest_Puddi III_*
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Sorry for the bit of delay in responding to this--
Their reason for fixed companion appearances is as valid today as it was two days ago. Even if this DLC were an appearance pack, given that they would still retain their unique proportions and unique "look," the reason would still be valid. If you feel unsatisfied with the amount of content provided in this regard in the vanilla game, that's fine, but that doesn't mean, therefore, that this DLC (still assuming it's an appearance pack) is content cut from the main game to be "ransomed back" as an exercise in pure greed. If you don't like the extra outfits, don't buy them. You still have the full game. That they're willing to sell them to people who do like them, is just business.
You say it still smells fishy because of the lack of a toolset, but as said, there are already lots of appearance packs on the nexus, including at least one which gives a companion an entirely new outfit, and the toolset wouldn't facilitate the creation of new armor models anyway. That still would have to be done separately. If there is a lack, it's because of a lack of independent artists/modders willing to do so for DA2. So to say they're withholding the toolset to prevent people from making custom armors so they can sell custom armors as DLC, when the toolset wouldn't even help people make custom armors, and when they've already stated that they feel updating the toolset would have a positive effect on the game's longevity (and as such, marginally increase DLC sales, not the other way around), is still flimsy at best.
I find it much more likely they are simply creating content they see a demand for (given the lack of unique modded outfits, and given that not everyone uses the PC version of the game or is comfortable using mods), and they're only not updating the toolset because it's not high on their list of priorities. It doesn't have to be a big conspiracy.
Saintthanksgiving wrote...
I never said there was anything wrong with making money
Good for Bioware.
The thing is, its MY money they are making. So I am gonna say something if I am not happy with what I paid for.
I paid the same price for a game that provided less game than the first. Now I am starting to suspect that the things that were removed in the second game are being ransomed back to me piece by piece.
oh and before we have fifty people give me the Spicolli, I am well aware that this is just "My Opinion" If the only thing allowed in this forum was Proven scientific fact, well it it would probably just be a FAQ.
Their reason for fixed companion appearances is as valid today as it was two days ago. Even if this DLC were an appearance pack, given that they would still retain their unique proportions and unique "look," the reason would still be valid. If you feel unsatisfied with the amount of content provided in this regard in the vanilla game, that's fine, but that doesn't mean, therefore, that this DLC (still assuming it's an appearance pack) is content cut from the main game to be "ransomed back" as an exercise in pure greed. If you don't like the extra outfits, don't buy them. You still have the full game. That they're willing to sell them to people who do like them, is just business.
You say it still smells fishy because of the lack of a toolset, but as said, there are already lots of appearance packs on the nexus, including at least one which gives a companion an entirely new outfit, and the toolset wouldn't facilitate the creation of new armor models anyway. That still would have to be done separately. If there is a lack, it's because of a lack of independent artists/modders willing to do so for DA2. So to say they're withholding the toolset to prevent people from making custom armors so they can sell custom armors as DLC, when the toolset wouldn't even help people make custom armors, and when they've already stated that they feel updating the toolset would have a positive effect on the game's longevity (and as such, marginally increase DLC sales, not the other way around), is still flimsy at best.
I find it much more likely they are simply creating content they see a demand for (given the lack of unique modded outfits, and given that not everyone uses the PC version of the game or is comfortable using mods), and they're only not updating the toolset because it's not high on their list of priorities. It doesn't have to be a big conspiracy.
Modifié par Filament, 27 avril 2011 - 11:52 .
#63
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 11:48
RinpocheSchnozberry
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YohkoOhno wrote...
2) It's simply a lot harder to create adventures now. With DA:O and DA2 setting the bar high, we now expect strong cinematics, voice acting for all the characters (including the protagonist), and the graphics are a lot more sophisticated. This makes it a lot harder to create your own adventures. How many modules have been created for DAO compared to NWN? As such, I see the amount of effort to support a toolset or even the appeal of it to be less than it was for NWN.
This is so true! Two mods come to mind from DAO that were enjoyable stories and adventures... the rest were... there. Compare that to Oblivion mods, Morrowind mods, and NWN mods... There were some kick ass stuff made back then. I think the availability of voice and cinematic animations now put a lot of pressure on modders to use those things when they might not be very comfortable with them. Some people excel, but it's a smaller crowd that excels with those tools than could do neat things with plain old text and simpler sprites.
#64
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 11:50
ElnVld
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Well .... I don't know for what the Toolset is ... but I really want DLCs and expansion packs for DA2
Modifié par ElnVld, 27 avril 2011 - 11:58 .
#65
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 12:44
Saintthanksgiving
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Filament, you are absolutely right that there are MODS available.... for PC users.... who know how to use them... or are willing to learn.
Who does that leave? ALL of the console users, and Anyone who plays on PC, but isnt comfortable messing around with stuff they don't understand.
My original post title referred to the toolset, but the post itself explained that the removal of the option to equip your companions' armor left you no choice but to pay for additional content.
Mr. Gaider was the one who compassionately labeled this as a PC User problem. Is it a problem that is disproportionately felt by Mod Community PC Users? of course. But it is a problem for us all at some level.
If you disagree, by all means spend your 5 bucks and tell Bioware that you dont mind the change. I never even said that there was anything wrong with alternate appearence packs. All I said was that by the removal of other options, Bioware is de-facto forcing people to buy DLC if they want variety in their playthroughs.
But again, I'm not putting a gun to anyones head to agree with me.
Who does that leave? ALL of the console users, and Anyone who plays on PC, but isnt comfortable messing around with stuff they don't understand.
My original post title referred to the toolset, but the post itself explained that the removal of the option to equip your companions' armor left you no choice but to pay for additional content.
Mr. Gaider was the one who compassionately labeled this as a PC User problem. Is it a problem that is disproportionately felt by Mod Community PC Users? of course. But it is a problem for us all at some level.
If you disagree, by all means spend your 5 bucks and tell Bioware that you dont mind the change. I never even said that there was anything wrong with alternate appearence packs. All I said was that by the removal of other options, Bioware is de-facto forcing people to buy DLC if they want variety in their playthroughs.
But again, I'm not putting a gun to anyones head to agree with me.
Modifié par Saintthanksgiving, 28 avril 2011 - 12:48 .
#66
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 12:56
Arken
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The toolset was an extra. I hope when enough patches come out Bioware can update the old one. Sadly I can not download the old one. I never purchased the original Dragon Age for PC. Meaning I'm restricted from the existing toolset.
So unless the update allowed PC users who only own DAII to download it then I'd still be left out.
Of course a toolset being made is a far away dream anyway. The current mods are nice. But I don't have the time to fiddle with so many programs in order to learn to mod now.
I personally believe that Bioware would give us a toolset if they had the time. I'd hope for one, but I'm not a fool. If there is a toolset I can download one day then I'd be happy. If not then oh well. Life goes on.
Also might I add that I have not bothered with the copious amounts of programs needed to create mods yet I do have serveral mods installed that work. Fenris now has white eyebows, thank the Lord, and some unique weapons for my companions.
So many mods do extend to those of us not able to learn how to create them St.Thanksgiving. We've already seen the lengths Bioware goes to in order to keep the customer satisfied.
A free Mass Effect 2 for PC speaks for itself. Something which only benefits those who play on a PC mainly, or also use a PC for games as well as a console. I find it hard to believe that Bioware wouldn't be willing to use a new toolset as another incentive for PC gamers.
So unless the update allowed PC users who only own DAII to download it then I'd still be left out.
Of course a toolset being made is a far away dream anyway. The current mods are nice. But I don't have the time to fiddle with so many programs in order to learn to mod now.
I personally believe that Bioware would give us a toolset if they had the time. I'd hope for one, but I'm not a fool. If there is a toolset I can download one day then I'd be happy. If not then oh well. Life goes on.
Also might I add that I have not bothered with the copious amounts of programs needed to create mods yet I do have serveral mods installed that work. Fenris now has white eyebows, thank the Lord, and some unique weapons for my companions.
So many mods do extend to those of us not able to learn how to create them St.Thanksgiving. We've already seen the lengths Bioware goes to in order to keep the customer satisfied.
A free Mass Effect 2 for PC speaks for itself. Something which only benefits those who play on a PC mainly, or also use a PC for games as well as a console. I find it hard to believe that Bioware wouldn't be willing to use a new toolset as another incentive for PC gamers.
#67
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 01:03
Saintthanksgiving
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From your beak to God's ears Arken...
I remain skeptical.... mainly because the only God listening is Mike Laidlaw, and he thinks you are just afraid of change.
I remain skeptical.... mainly because the only God listening is Mike Laidlaw, and he thinks you are just afraid of change.
#68
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 01:07
Guest_Puddi III_*
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You didn't just refer to the toolset off-hand, it was part of your argument. You made the claim that them withholding the toolset, along with restricting companion armor, along with this DLC are all part of their plan to force you to pay for content that should have just been in the main game. If you now wish to remove the toolset from the debate, well, I addressed those other points too.Saintthanksgiving wrote...
Filament, you are absolutely right that there are MODS available.... for PC users.... who know how to use them... or are willing to learn.
Who does that leave? ALL of the console users, and Anyone who plays on PC, but isnt comfortable messing around with stuff they don't understand.
My original post title referred to the toolset, but the post itself explained that the removal of the option to equip your companions' armor left you no choice but to pay for additional content.
Choosing not to buy it doesn't mean you've been robbed by their devilish schemes.If you disagree, by all means spend your 5 bucks and tell Bioware that you dont mind the change. I never even said that there was anything wrong with alternate appearence packs. All I said was that by the removal of other options, Bioware is de-facto forcing people to buy DLC if they want variety in their playthroughs.
But again, I'm not putting a gun to anyones head to agree with me.
#69
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 01:17
Saintthanksgiving
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What I said was
The REASON that the toolset was dropped, had a great deal to do with Bioware's intent to supply content THEMSELVES for additional profit.
That intent carried across to the removal of companion customization and was made painfully obvious by the release of a FOR SALE DLC pack while half the community is still complaining about the availability of patches essential to gameplay.
but again, if you dont agree with me thats fine. This is my "opinion" thread.
The REASON that the toolset was dropped, had a great deal to do with Bioware's intent to supply content THEMSELVES for additional profit.
That intent carried across to the removal of companion customization and was made painfully obvious by the release of a FOR SALE DLC pack while half the community is still complaining about the availability of patches essential to gameplay.
but again, if you dont agree with me thats fine. This is my "opinion" thread.
#70
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 01:20
Guest_Puddi III_*
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Okay, as long as you know you really have no evidence to back up that opinion. So it's really just a hunch. Like I have a hunch that Mike Laidlaw is reading this very thread with steepled fingers as we speak.
#71
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 01:21
Arken
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Don't ever try to scare me like that!Saintthanksgiving wrote...
From your beak to God's ears Arken...
I remain skeptical.... mainly because the only God listening is Mike Laidlaw, and he thinks you are just afraid of change.
I'm sure there are plenty of people on the development team thinking, "We should really finish off this toolset."
They have to. At least consider it. Or feel a little bad that they couldn't.
I like change. Just do it right.
#72
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 01:26
YohkoOhno
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Compare that to Oblivion mods, Morrowind mods, and NWN mods... There were some kick ass stuff made back then. I think the availability of voice and cinematic animations now put a lot of pressure on modders to use those things when they might not be very comfortable with them. Some people excel, but it's a smaller crowd that excels with those tools than could do neat things with plain old text and simpler sprites.
It's not just pressure on the modders from the creative level, it's audience expectations. After seeing how wonderful the modern RPG is with DAO, I could never stomach going back to the days where you are just reading text with no voices anymore. Anybody who doesn't provide that is going to really look inferior to the main game.
It's kind of like when Star Wars hit--it made the other SF pictures look antiquated and even "cheap". I think the A title market is now too sophisticated for modders, at least for RPG style content. Fan expectation is much higher.
(Level design for something like a deathmatch FPS, like Team Fortress, is passible, because all you are doing is creating an environment and you neither have to worry about story or gameplay--and even that is harder than it was in the old Doom days).
I think the only way for an RPG mod community to get as big as it was with NWN and other RPGs is a more simplistic game. You might be able to find that type of community with the lower tier RPGs, and there are graphic adventure construction kits and text adventure construction kits. NWN was probably one of the last RPG games that could fit as a "construction kit". But I doubt we can have something as sophisticated as the DA, Skyrim, or Witcher 2 engines and still have as much user generated content that fits within that engine as we did with the older games.
And I think if Bioware is not releasing a DA2 toolkit, I think in part it will be that the mod community is just not as big as it once was, for the reasons stated above.
#73
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 01:27
elearon1
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Saintthanksgiving wrote...
The REASON that the toolset was dropped, had a great deal to do with Bioware's intent to supply content THEMSELVES for additional profit.
Yeah, I can't agree with you here. Consider: a toolset would allow moders to produce material which would, in turn, keep people interested in the game - thus keeping the game on their computers longer, making the release of dlc more promising. Without the toolset and the promise of mods, fewer people are likely to keep DA2 on their computers ... thus, when the dlc does come out there won't be as many potential customers for it.
Thus, if follows, that not producing a toolset is actually detrimental to Bioware's interests. We can therefor assume that if they didn't have, what the company considered more pressing issues, such a thing would be (and for all we know, might be) in the works.
#74
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 01:46
Saintthanksgiving
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Elearon... maybe. I wouldnt reinstall a game for an alternate appearance pack, but I probably would for awakenings. If it was a game where I knew additional content, real content, was coming; I probably wouldnt bother uninstalling it in the first place. While I am waiting for awakenings, they could peddle all kinds of weapon kits and appearence packs to me
#75
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 01:59
Ariella
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Saintthanksgiving wrote...
From your beak to God's ears Arken...
I remain skeptical.... mainly because the only God listening is Mike Laidlaw, and he thinks you are just afraid of change.
You were doing so well, until your inner Grinch slipped out.
There's a great story about Mike which I saw in the collector's ed strategy guide for Origins, about the first time he saw the Leliana song cutscene. I wish I could find that SG so I could give exact quotes, but the gist of it was that he'd been told they were working out a scene with Lel singing. When he loaded it up for the first time (IIRC) it was at night and he was floored, absolutely floored by the scene. That's the moment (again IIRC) Mike realized they had a hit on their hands.
No "awsome button", no ninja moves, just a simple cutscene that was a small but powerful character moment.
That's why I believe in Mike Laidlaw as Lead Designer for Dragon Age.
So no, I doubt Mike thinks he's God, and the point he was trying to make was there are always going to be people afraid of change in any segement of any population. He also seemed to be aware that in this particular population they were going to be as vocal as anything. It's not an insult, it's just a fact of life. He's not making fun of anyone, kicking sand in their faces or even stealing their lunch money. But as front man for the Development team, he does have a grasp of the psychology of what might happen in taking the risk to deviate from such a beloved product. That still doesn't mean anyone has a license to go after him with flame throwers.
