520 réponses à ce sujet

[AreleX]

Want those added to the OP?

Also, have you joined the AreleX Fan Group yet? We have an open bar, general discussion (DA2 and otherwise), a clearly defined and noble goal (praise me for being such a baller), and even a sweet looking information stealing spam bot girl named Jennifer who just wants to get to know all of us better! Join today!

[brazen_nl]

Yeah, sent you a PM about it.

Bedtime.

[AreleX]

I'm doing a video of some Act II speed clears. So far, I've got:

Midnight Meeting
Smuggler's Cut, First, second, and final fights

Suggestions for others?

[tonnactus]

The crazy looner fight.One mage,two shadow assassins and one arcane horror.

Modifié par tonnactus, 06 mai 2011 - 11:21 .

[brazen_nl]

Gamlen's Greatest Treasure end fight using Fenris, Merrill and Sebastian.

[AreleX]

Isabela easily sees the least use in my parties, and I'd assume it's the same for others, as well. As such, I think it'd be fun to have an Isabela build 'competition' (loosest sense of the word possible for my egotism), to see what everyone can come up with for her, and maybe get her out of the doghouse a little bit. DLC accessories/weapons allowed.

Post which act the current build comes from
Post accessories, weapons, basic stat distribution philosophy
Post tactics
Share ideas
Post videos!

[Jack-Nader]

Wheres your tranquility speed run video, arelex?

* NM I found your Rogue one.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 07 mai 2011 - 09:58 .

[Zachriel]

I finally got a chance to play some DA2 again, so I loaded up my mage game and I've hit a brick wall. The Bysmor/Beacon/Gifre fight from the Pride Unbound quest.

Of course by this point int he game I've faced many revenants before, and they were pretty easy. I also remember this fight being almost pathetically easy for my warrior and rogue, but when I try it with my mage I'm getting my ass kicked up and down sundermount and it's just not fun.

I've tried it with several different parties. Fenris/Merill/Anders, Frenries, Varric/Merill/ Aveline/Varric/Anders, Aveline/Varric/Merril.

The results are always the same. We absolutely destroy Bysmor, then I focus on one of the revenants. Gifre seems to hit harder so I try to focus on him first. We start off pretty strong, I hit some CCC's, his health is dropping. . . And then he pulls us in. Then Beacon hits us with another pull. Slice, slice, slice,slice and my entire party is dead in about 2 seconds. Dropping Gravitic Ring right on top of one of them keeps in the fight a little longer, but as soon as the hit us with one of their pull attacks it's pretty much over. I'm about to just give up and start over again with another rogue.

[AreleX]

Tranquility? I think I did that in a tutorial video, not for a speed run

[tonnactus]

Zachriel wrote...

I finally got a chance to play some DA2 again, so I loaded up my mage game and I've hit a brick wall. The Bysmor/Beacon/Gifre fight from the Pride Unbound quest.

Of course by this point int he game I've faced many revenants before, and they were pretty easy. I also remember this fight being almost pathetically easy for my warrior and rogue, but when I try it with my mage I'm getting my ass kicked up and down sundermount and it's just not fun.

I've tried it with several different parties. Fenris/Merill/Anders, Frenries, Varric/Merill/ Aveline/Varric/Anders, Aveline/Varric/Merril.

The results are always the same. We absolutely destroy Bysmor, then I focus on one of the revenants. Gifre seems to hit harder so I try to focus on him first. We start off pretty strong, I hit some CCC's, his health is dropping. . . And then he pulls us in. Then Beacon hits us with another pull. Slice, slice, slice,slice and my entire party is dead in about 2 seconds. Dropping Gravitic Ring right on top of one of them keeps in the fight a little longer, but as soon as the hit us with one of their pull attacks it's pretty much over. I'm about to just give up and start over again with another rogue.

The latest patch actually let revenants use pull...(cant remember seeing them use that before the patch)
Your rogue could be "owned as fast",if not faster by that.
Revenants and corpses are weak to spirit and then there are staffs that add additional damage against undead.
Upgraded horror and petrify also keep them in check.

Modifié par tonnactus, 07 mai 2011 - 11:13 .

[Zachriel]

The latest patch actually let revenants use pull...(cant remember seeing them use that before the patch)
Your rogue could be "owned as fast",if not faster by that.
Revenants and corpses are weak to spirit and then there are staffs that add additional damage against undead.
Upgraded horror and petrify also keep them in check.

Yeah, in my last attempt I had Anders and Merill both using electricity staves while I used Malcom's Honor which does spirit damage +38 damage vs undead. On weaker revenants, my auto attacks alone with Malcom's Honor and Haste were devastating. These guys don't even seem to feel it. Merril has both Horror and Petrify and was using them as often as she could, along with Hex of Torment. We still got slaughtered.

If I very carefully pull them one at a time I can get past this encounter, but that just feels cheap. And lame.

Modifié par Zachriel, 07 mai 2011 - 11:27 .

[Jack-Nader]

Those two revenants will own your entire party no matter who your party consists of. Their pull bypasses armor. They hit for around 170 HP on a regular pull, 250 on a crit. If both use their mass pull at the same time it is likely to be a party wipe. That was the only fight in the entire game that was troublesome for my current party configuration. I ended up running like a little girl and shooting them at range.

[Zachriel]

Eh, I've given up on taking them both on at once. I split them up and burned them down separately. Disappointing, but whatever. They're still dead.

[mr_afk]

AreleX wrote...

Isabela easily sees the least use in my parties, and I'd assume it's the same for others, as well. As such, I think it'd be fun to have an Isabela build 'competition' (loosest sense of the word possible for my egotism), to see what everyone can come up with for her, and maybe get her out of the doghouse a little bit. DLC accessories/weapons allowed.

Post which act the current build comes from
Post accessories, weapons, basic stat distribution philosophy
Post tactics
Share ideas
Post videos!

Here's the Isabela build I used for the Gauntlet run.


It works pretty well but I didn't open the book - So looks like i'm still the worst player haha. I might have another go at it sometime later but yeah, as Jack-Nader says you can't really speed run it (go any faster than ~2mins) as most of the time is spent waiting for respawns...

Note: Gear is not optimised/Probably costs more than I would willingly spend. This was more of a muck-around try-out session rather than the stingy I don't want to spend any money on anybody but hawke...


Act Two - Level 19
Weapons: Jarvia's Shank, Beraht's Revenge (cold rune + nature rune)
Threads of the Eastern Seas (rune of spirit warding) 
Accessories: Ornate Belt (11hp, +3%phy), Poisonwood Locket (+12%nature), Lady's Choice (2dex, 4%attackspeed, 12%dmgresist, immunity to knock-back), Ring of the Seven Watchers(2%critchance, 4%critdmg)

Stats: 10str, 58dex, 10mag, 12cun, 11will, 24con
--> Dps and crit-dmg-wise pumping dex will do more than pumping cun. As I had another rogue in the team for opening locks I was free leave cunning at base and pump only dex. I pumped con to 24 to reduce any knock-down issues which are common despite her ring due to her ridiculously low base health.

Tactics: I controlled her; No tactics - could make some but it wouldn't be as good as microing.

Ideas: Imo, Isabela is more of a pure dps dealer rather than relying on CCCs or talents. Twin fangs does deal decent dmg but given her attack speed and crit-chance of 100% it is likely that in the time taken for most animations she would have dealt more dmg via autoattacks. Thus I specced her into sustains and passives which would help increase the damage of each hit.

Modifié par mr_afk, 08 mai 2011 - 01:29 .

[Jack-Nader]

Don't know if I would agree with your statement of her being able to do more damage via autoattacks than with twin fangs.

[mr_afk]

You do realise that by using a talent you're sacrificing 20% crit chance - or in this case 100% crits?
She probably would only do ~4 or more attacks in the space of one twin fangs so I suppose a twin fangs could do more spike damage - but I guess what I'm saying is that isabela (without assassinate/vendetta) is more of an autoattack machine and you would be overall lowering the damage output.

I'm not too sure of the numbers etc so I could be wrong. Either way, by pumping dex you are increasing the amount of damage that twin fangs and other spike damage talents do - it's just that I found it easier to kill things via auto-attacks alone than to try to use explosive strikes and twin fangs all the time - unless it was a tougher enemy which needed to die fast

But you must admit that isabela is pretty awesome damage-wise if you pump her dex really high

Modifié par mr_afk, 08 mai 2011 - 02:02 .

[Jack-Nader]

Isabella will hit 100% crit rate (without unforgiving chain or items) by end game. Even if we only consider the early game where unforgiving chain matters, she is still going to need 10 strikes to hit +20% crit rate.

Twin fangs has ~ 5.5 : base damage ratio.
@ 49 base damage you'll be doing 269 X 2 damage plus whatever your crit damage is.
@ 49 base damage you'll be doing 91 damage per second for regular attacks

The twin fang animation takes aproximately 1 second to complete. Even with two mages dropping haste at the same time and an additional +20% speed from talents/items she isn't going to beat that with regular attacks. Not even close.

Isabella is also going to have low critical hit damage due to a lack of cunning anyway. Loosing 20% crit rate for 10 strikes is a worthy trade off for the abbility to deal big numbers to any target.  It sounds to me like you're all too eager throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 08 mai 2011 - 06:52 .

[Sabotin]

Does it have to be an Isabela for a mage party?

Here's mine, though Hawke was an S&S berserker, not a mage. I think it's a pretty standard rogue build, but it was a good synch to my Hawke.

End Attributes:
Str 17
Dex 54
Mag 17
Cun 70
Wil 18
Con 26

Stats (with buffs):
Damage: 202 dps
Attack: 100/100/88
Defense: 80/80/72
Armor: 41%
24% dmg resist and 17% magic resist, immune to knockdown

Gear: Carta's Right Hand, Jarvia's Shank (I know I know, physical, qq), Belt of Promise, Four-Fingered Eddie's Lucky Talisman, Lady's Choice, Puzzle ring if the Black Fox. Yeah, I didn't really bother with fortune runes and whatnot, just so you know .

Tactics (was experimenting a bit, so it's a mess  ):
1 Ally: Health<10% -> Armistice
2 Enemy: Attacking Anders -> Armistice
3 Enemy: Attacking Isabela -> Armistice
4 Self: Health>=75% -> Use current condition for next tactic
5 Enemy: Attacking Anders -> Across the Bow
6 Anders: Being attacked by melee attack -> Jump to 10
7 Self: Health<50% -> next
8 Anders: Any -> Back to Back
9 Hawke: Being attacked melee -> next
10 Hawke: Health>=25% -> Goad
11 Enemy: Clustered with 2+ -> All Hands on Deck
12 Enemy: STAGGERED -> next
13 Enemy: Elite+ -> Explosive Strike
14 Enemy: Health>=25% -> next
15 Enemy: Elite+ -> Twin Fangs
16 Enemy: Can't attack -> jump to 20
17 Enemy: Target between short and medium range -> next
18 Enemy: Clustered 3+ -> Miasmic Flask
19 Enemy: Elite+ -> Fatiguing Fog
20 Enemy: Target of Hawke -> Attack

High points include very good battlefield managment with aggro redirection and stuns, disorienting (for Hawke's Assault and Devour), great help with spike damage. And she died only on rare occasions actually.

Low points: Every enemy we killed, she got their stuff .

Sorry, no videos, you'l just have to take my word for her awesomeness .

[mr_afk]

@Jack-Nader. I think you may be right about twin fangs doing more damage in the short term, but i'm pretty sure you're incorrect about the low critical damage part?

Without devious harm each point into cunning will increase the actual critical damage dealt by 0.5. Each point into dex will increased the actual critical damage by 0.75; This means that a full dex isabela will do more damage via criticals...
This also applies to abilities such as twin fangs as the increase in base damage will cause a considerably larger increase compared to increasing critical damage%.

My rationale was that I kill most enemies in a few seconds anyway so using abilities will basically be dealing more damage than needed and reducing the damage to the next enemy... I might try a different approach later. Going to attempt the gauntlet again, it's suprisingly fun (plus I need to open the book mid-fight to prove i'm not the worst player )


@Sabotin wow, you really decked her out in the good stuff! How did you afford anything for hawke?! haha. But yeah, did the high defence (from cunning) help much? Because I'm considering a more dps orientated dex-only build but i'm not sure how much her survivability will suffer late-game..

Also, I'm still not convinced that my current setup using power (increased dmg vs stunned enemies) is worth it.. I'll do some more testing anyhow.


@ Rumination (just to appear psychic and because I'm already editing this post) - yeah, I noticed that too. Whenever an enemy got brittled my numbers would leap up.  That's due to the 50% increased critical dmg associated with brittle I think. Pity i couldn't take too much advantage of it due to the tendency for Varric to stick a lance into me if I wasn't careful  

Modifié par mr_afk, 08 mai 2011 - 10:49 .

[rumination888]

For Isabella to shine with Mage Hawke, I suggest picking up all the spells that cause Brittle. Set up her tactics so she uses Twin Fangs and Backstab against Brittled targets only.

Some of you might be wondering, "wtf? Twin Fangs/Backstab don't CCC with Brittle".

Well, Brittle adds a ton of damage if you crit the target, and Twin Fangs/Backstab are gauranteed crits. Try it out for yourself, with Brittle and without it, to see just how large of an impact it has on crits.

(fyi, the Brittle effect itself is a major contributor to Assassinate's crazy numbers, and I'm not talking about the CCC)

[Jack-Nader]

rumination888 wrote...

(fyi, the Brittle effect itself is a major contributor to Assassinate's crazy numbers, and I'm not talking about the CCC)

Agreed.  Brittle adds a tone of crit damage even before the CCC takes effect.

[Jack-Nader]

Isabella will end up with low crit damage. If you're lucky, you might hit 100 - 130% with the best equipment given to her. Compare that to a Hawke assassin build which easily hits over 300% by game end.

* I should stipulate that this is putting as little into cunning as possible as Dex > cunning for isabella.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 08 mai 2011 - 11:35 .

[mr_afk]

Comparing any of the companions against hawke is somewhat unfair. Hawke has so much more potential in terms of damage-dealing (and tanking) relative to the companions due to some of the unique passives from specialisations and from the ability to equip armour (and gain benefits from that armour properties).

Anyway, if you compare a full dex isabela against the typical hawke assassin she'll have a higher base damage. Thus looking at the critical damage multiplier% alone is somewhat misleading.
If you think about it, excluding items lets say isabela has 100 dex, 12 cun (45 base dmg+weapons, crit dmg ~85% due to passives) and hawke has 30 dex, 70 cunning (10 base dmg+weapons, crit 180% due to devious harm and assassin spec) the difference between actual critical damage will actually be favouring isabela.
As both critical chances should be ~100% the higher actual critical dmg = higher dps and higher dmg from talents (though Isabela doesn't have access to assassinate and vendetta).

But including the fact that hawke gets more attributes over the course of the game and also can get considerable +%crit dmg from armour (e.g. stealth boots), hawke should and will get higher damage.
But a pure dex isabela shouldn't be completely discounted damage-wise.

(hopefully those quick calcs i did are accurate.. otherwise that would be embarrassing haha)

Modifié par mr_afk, 08 mai 2011 - 11:48 .

[Sabotin]

Honestly, I'm not sure about the high defense. If someone was hitting her they were usually hitting her with ranged or skills.

Tried dex vs cun just now:
90dex/42cun= 191dps 170% crit dmg = 515,7
42dex/90cun= 235dps 122% crit dmg = 521,7
Not that big of a difference either way I think. Perhaps at lower levels dex is better by bigger margins due to lower base damage. Not sure how lacerate works atm, if that doesn't crit I guess dex gets another point.

Edt: for Hawke Assasin/Shadow (Duelist instead would favor cun I guess) (don't compare to Isabela):
100dex/42cun=189dps 352% crit dmg = 854,28 (901,53 obscured)
42cun/100dex=242dps 236% crit dmg = 813,12 (873,62 obscured)

Modifié par Sabotin, 08 mai 2011 - 12:07 .

[Jack-Nader]

Honestly, If I were to run an isabella build I would do this :=

1)Every single point into dexterity UNTIL she starts to get knocked down, at which point I would bump her health untill it is no longer an issue.
2)Her DLC ring negates damage and knockback.
3)Give her the highest damage daggers + critical damage daggers I could find.
4)In terms of gear I would pick the items in this order => critical damage ->physical damage->Critical chance.  (critcal damage and physical damage are reversed at the start of the game)

Talents:=

Dual wield tree
All talents except Merciless strike, murder and the entire lacerate line.

Sabotage
All three rush upgrades.

Specialist
Speed, Precision, Power, harmony, Lightning speed, energizing speed.

Scoundrel
Blindside, back to back, follow through

Swashbuckler
Everything from the swashbuckler line except below the waterline and possibly buckaneers savvy

I would do my absolute best to make her immune to fire and spirit, even if I had to use both runeslots to do it. 

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 08 mai 2011 - 12:08 .