520 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaylord]

mr_afk, that is a point; Hawke has 20 con, the others around 16, Fenris at 24, Aveline at 28. I read somewhere that maxing damage stats beyond 40 brings less results, that´s why I branched out. Maybe a mistake now.

Xbox, ah sorry, anyways, I am a console hater

Concerning my "overpowered item" remark, I did not have the parlathan dlc, and after having that staff in act I is was pretty evil, since IMO it sports damage which is more on level with act II. In act II, I still use it and only recently found a generic staff with +13% fire damage and base 30 fire damage. I have the same generic staff for cold damage, my equip is all geared for +fire damage, except for necklace, ring and chestarmor, which are a for +equipment quality. Maybe wrong, too. Damage output seems to be of paramount importance.

Modifié par Kaylord, 23 mai 2011 - 11:20 .

[mr_afk]

hmm? 20con isn't so much.
Just don't go into dex (and definately not into cunning) unless you have a massive base damage or crit-damage(%) from items - as otherwise, increasing base damage will always increase the actual crit-damage more than cunning and increase dps more than the increase to crit-chance (unless you're an assassin).

For the gauntlet you really want to be using either electrical staves or cold spells and staves. Electrical will help against the shades/desire demon/arcane horror etc, and via stagger CCCs can help with killing rage demons. Cold is good against rage demons and will help CC/set up brittles which is always useful. Fire spells can be used if you use them right - e.g. dropping a well-placed firestorm, but for staves you definitely want to use either cold/electrical to deal with rage demons.

I can't remember what base damage good staves have at that level so I can't comment on that base damage. But the staff of parlathan starts to get defunct by the end of act1 if I remember right.. my last mage playthrough almost exclusively used spirit so I can't really remember that much about fire.

Anyway, if you're still having problems I guess you could consider doing the run back down the corridor trick?
Or see if Arelex is willing to help, despite you been a dirty pc player

Modifié par mr_afk, 23 mai 2011 - 11:52 .

[Kaylord]

Stonebreath, Valdasine, have around 28 base damage, and spirit, at that, which is useless against shades. I did not find good electricity staves. Parlathan has 26 base damage with the rune included, I considered it still viable because of the tons of other bonus stats on it - and it looks sooo kewl! Only recently I found a generic 30 base damage fire and cold staff with +13% fire added for Hawke and Anders or Merril.

My Hawke has the Force/SpiritHealer line, the latter only for the +25 mana, since I wanted to go for maxed out elemental/primal. I am considering reskilling him to the "classic" FM/BM setup, Hemorrage should really help. That would require to buy new BM equip. What´s bugging me is that in the video, I see the use of the staff "cold blooded", which costs around 113 golders. Why do I have only 70 gold? I bought all the tomes and elixirs for +stat, maybe I shouldn´t have.

Maybe I need to replay, if I just knew where I took the wrong turns, money-wise. I did the fast startup with cheating the smuggler and killing for Meraan, so that was not the problem. I had Varric, Merril and Fenris with runes of fortune in my group to get maximum money from loot. I used most money for the tomes/elixirs, though, and maybe I shouldn´t have bought those daggers for Isabela or other stuff sometimes in between, but that couldn´t have been more than 10 gold all in all.

Against the rage demons, my mages have a about 1/3 hit rate with their staves, at about 60 points non-crit damage. Way too low if I compare with the video. Something´s wrong.

Modifié par Kaylord, 23 mai 2011 - 12:24 .

[AreleX]

Cold-blooded isn't worth the money.

If you're talking about the tutorial video, I was level 14, using crappy generic electricity staves. If you're talking about the other video, I was around level 17, using Cold-blooded because I just bought it. You shouldn't, since the Revenant is cold immune.

Use my guide, and the only way you can fail is user error. If you want to play with a sub-optimal build and party, that's all well and good, do what you enjoy, but don't be surprised when things are more difficult, and certainly don't heap accusations onto others when it doesn't work as well as what you see me do.

[Kaylord]

AreleX, I see now that we are talking about two different videos. This clarifies already a lot.
I watched the one with the staff Cold-blooded and was wondering about the high damage numbers and how the heck I don´t have even near enough money for that thing at level 16, near the end of act II.
Your level-14 video was done with generic electriciy staves, you mean ones with around 28 base damage?

Again, relaX ™, I was expressively asking if I was missing something obvious, because I see your videos and, as I stated, I can´t reproduce it and I don´t know why. I was expressively asking for hints, and not accusing you in any way. Or am I that bad at english? I feel stupid.

Anyways, I recieved already a whole bunch of hints from Mr_afk and that´s all I wanted, thank you. I will try them out asap. The "backdoor-trick" did not work, since it seems to really be a not-enough-damage problem; the spawns become overwhelming so that even choke-pinning does fail. Going so far back to only partly pull the room is cheesy and a no-go.
But I am hoping to get better by reviewing once more my skill, equip, tacics and by trying to position my group more close to each other; I did not realize that combos can fail when the group are too far spaced apart.

Modifié par Kaylord, 23 mai 2011 - 02:39 .

[Kaylord]

Guys, I really do feel nerd rage... after several tries, I am trying the setup which jack nader uses in his vid (posted by mr_afk on the page before). While naders´ Hawk does an initial whopping 1250 cold damage with his cone of cold, mine does a meager 135 instead. Same with some other figures; the lighting staves of mine do about 70 points to the rage demon, jack naders do 135. I don´t get the rage demon even nearly down that fast, I reloaded about 20 times now, I never get the same constant high damage peak. The only difference I notice is that I don´t have archers lance skilled, but I don´t even see jack nader use it in his vid...
I will try again tomorrow, it is all about the damage, not high enough, nonono, mumble, muahahaHAHAHAHH

[Jack-Nader]

First up... I have every single attribute point put into magic. I sold fenriel to the demon and scored an extra +10 attribute points from that quest. I think I have all the tomes there too.

Right off the bat I have merrill cast hex of torment while anders and myself cast winters grasp / cone of cold. Hex of torment literrally doubles your damage output. The reason the cone of cold does so much damage is because the rage demon is "brittle" Brittle adds +50% critical damage. To an already hexed target that is a tonne of extra damage!

[mmatrix05]

@mr_afk great videos, can you post your Isabela build from your video? Also thanks to that out of range tip I'm used to micromanage everything so I was asking why tactics don't work sometimes.

Modifié par mmatrix05, 24 mai 2011 - 06:19 .

[mr_afk]

Thanks,
and you're in luck, seems like I kept a save from just before the gauntlet:

Okay attributes:
10str, 58dex, 10mag, 12 cun, 11 will, 24 con (so full dex with a little con to stop knockdown)

Abilities:
dual weapon: everything fully upgraded except backstab (no upgrades)
specialist: speed, precision, power(upgraded), harmony
scoundrel: blindside
swashbuckler: across bow, experienced hand, all hands on deck(upgraded), savvy, sea legs

This isn't the most optimised setup as I was testing out how effective power could be in conjunction with stuns.

The reason why the build was so effective at the gauntlet would probably be more to do with the weapons (including +3 cold from elemental weapons):
Jarvia's Shank: 34physical, +10cold, +26dmg vs demons and undead, +3dex, +7%crit chance, +9%crit dmg
Beraht's Revenge: 34nature, +7nature, +3cold, +61attack, +3%attackspeed, 5% chance to regen health

These weapons meant that I had a base damage of 92 (170dps), with the nature damage doubled against shades etc. I also had lacerate, power and speed running at the same time. In the video I was trying out fel poison (which actually is pretty terrible). If it were possible to speed run it I would recommend just using death root toxin (+9nature as opposed to ~2physical)

I had the poison wood locket (+12%nature), a ****ty ornate belt that gave me 11health and 3% physical, ring of seven watchers (2%crit chance, 4%crit dmg), and most importantly, Lady's choice (2dex, +4%attack speed, +12%damage resistance, immunity to knockback)

This gear wasn't really optimised either (usually don't use isabela so was just mucking around experimenting with her build) but the lady's choice is essential to reducing the amount of constitution you need to get to avoid knockbacks/knockdowns. I think I may have used a rock potion in the vid which also helps in that regard.

Overall she had 206hp, 97%crit chance (=100% after a few hits), 85%crit damage, 22%dmg resistance (10% from potion).

I did an even less optimised gauntlet run based on this build (for my main playthrough without splurging on unneccessary potions/poisons) and it still worked really well - though it was a little slower. The only issue with this build is that it relies quite heavily on dlc, and on your companions locking down enemies (via petrify/crushing prison) and lancing any brittles (so ff can be an issue).


Hope this helps.

I'm sure I could come up with a more optimised build if I needed to. Maybe I'll look into it later for my S&S build (it seems that ff isn't that much of an issue).
But the key point is to pump as much con as needed to avoid knockbacks/knockdowns then the rest into dex (cunning is not as good at increasing both critical damage and dps).

[mmatrix05]

Thanks. I never used Isabela but after watching Your video decided to give it a try. I had always knockback issue with her (no DLC gear). From all this seems that way to rock in Nexus gauntlet is to use heavy glass cannon party so you can kill quickly.

[Kaylord]

Jack-Nader wrote...

First up... I have every single attribute point put into magic. I sold fenriel to the demon and scored an extra +10 attribute points from that quest. I think I have all the tomes there too.

Right off the bat I have merrill cast hex of torment while anders and myself cast winters grasp / cone of cold. Hex of torment literrally doubles your damage output. The reason the cone of cold does so much damage is because the rage demon is "brittle" Brittle adds +50% critical damage. To an already hexed target that is a tonne of extra damage!

See, that´s why I hate-love this game, those little details!

The resolution of the vid wasn´t so good on my screen, I couldn´t read the magic stat properly and did not believe the supposed high value. Of course, my Hawk has a weaker magic stat.
Also, thank you for explaining the timing issue, which I did not really see in the vid. First hex, then brittle, then unload every high damage spell the group has. And then it depends on critluck. I tend to wait with cone of cold to apply a second brittle or to get him out of underground, since it never seemed to crit for me here.
Does it make a difference when you attack from flank? I could try to bring the demon into flanking position with a melee character, and add stagger into the mix.

[mr_afk]

It's not "crit-luck" if you do an upgraded hex of torment (100% crit chance).
I think flanking increases your attack and crit chance.

Do statuses stack? I got the impression that if you stagger a brittle target you're effectively wasting that brittle. I'm not too sure about it though. It's just something I've noticed..

[AreleX]

CCC effects do not stack. If you stagger a brittle enemy, you will have lost the brittle. Measures should be taken via tactics to avoid this problem, i.e having a tactic for Aveline that makes her use Bolster when an Elite is brittle to get around an overwrite by Cleave/Shield Bash.

Modifié par AreleX, 24 mai 2011 - 09:06 .

[mr_afk]

Yep, I thought so

so,
@Kaylord - Don't 'throw a stagger into the mix' until the brittle runs out or is used up via an archer's lance or something. Might be a little tough to do with fenris, so if you really want to use a warrior, maybe consider aveline? But then again - why do you even want staggers?
You're not a blood mage with haemorrhage right? And the Chain Lighning CCC is pretty terrible in comparison to the brittle +50%crit dmg/CCCs

Modifié par mr_afk, 24 mai 2011 - 09:10 .

[Jack-Nader]

Yeh, sorry about the video quality. When I shot that video I still hadn't worked out how to retain the quality after uploading to youtube. All my newer video's are clear though. I have also been including tactics in all my recent videos so that people can see exactly what I am doing.

[Kaylord]

Another evening passed, still stuck with my ranged-only-party.
Brittle on the rage demon seems to work only 1/3 of the reloads. Of those 1/3rds, half of the time I get the first rage demon down fast enough, but then the shades just overwhelm me; as soon as I have to focus fire on the desire demon my party has to run away from at least four leftover shades. If I concentrate on those shades the next spawn is up before the desire demon goes down. Sigh. Tomorrow next try -.-

[Jack-Nader]

Yeh, sounds like your party just doesn't deal enough damage. There is sort of a muddy inverted bellcurve when it comes to survivability/damage ouput. Characters who are made very defensive will be able to take a massive beating and get through any fight on sheer hitpoints alone. I have always taken the opposite polarity and turned all of my characters into glass cannons. Enemies just don't last long enough to put much of a dent in my party members. If you try to mix survivability and damage output you will actually end up sitting somewhere in the trough of the bellcurve and it is not a very nice place to be.

Give me your exact party and I will try to knock up a video for you showing exactly what to do.  *oh I will also need to know how much gold you have on hand and what equipment you currently have.  Also use the respec potion to let me know exactly how many attribute points you have to spend on your main character.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 24 mai 2011 - 07:44 .

[tonnactus]

Some spirit resist runes helps to negate the abomination attack/stun and the spirit bolts desire demons sometimes decide to use.(and all arcane horror attacks do next to zero damage)
Nature staffs are also good against shades/desire demons and easier to get then electricity staffs.(just swap to spirit when the revenant spawn)

Modifié par tonnactus, 24 mai 2011 - 08:10 .

[bossk-office]

I too was stuck on this gauntlet just a couple of days ago and forum members helped me through it. With the right stats, spells and tactics it is certainly doable – but it was the only thing in all of Act II that I couldn’t wing my way through with a sub-optimal setup.

By the way, does anyone agree with my impression that if you pull the first rage demon out the door and down the stairs without spawning any shades, that makes the rest of the fight harder, not easier? I tried to do that to take some of the pressure off, but then all hell spawned on me right away next time I walked through the door; not in tidy waves like in these videos ... I think ...

[Kaylord]

I appreciate your support! The nice wheather here kept me from waisting another night yet. I still cannot believe that another party setup would make such a big difference, but, since I tried to emulate every move of the vid (hex/brittle-combo, focus fire), it has to, right?

During the many reloads, I noted that very often, one of my party members would get cornered and stunlocked by shades. Once this happened, the overall damage was so much reduced that the spawns didn´t go down fast enough anymore. Of course, according to Jack´s video, there shouldn´t be any spawns left which can corner anybody, so that´s why I deduce it to be an overall damage problem. I will post my current exact setup here, soon; Jack, maybe I can even send a save-file?

panchamkauns, I read your threat, which will make me change two things: I will add archer´s lance and death hex. I avoided death hex so far because it takes 5 points to get it. I wish I had a chainlighting-ccc, too, so that the adds go down faster, but that would destroy the whole ranged-concept.

[mr_afk]

are you still stuck on the gauntlet?
If you build your aveline like my hawke and micro her you might be able to pull it off:


Then again, she isn't really a reaver so probs not. I just wanted to post my video haha


On another more helpful note, maybe try getting rock potions for your weaker party members. the 10% damage resistance helps a lot against rage demon backstabs (as you can see in the vid).

Modifié par mr_afk, 26 mai 2011 - 07:56 .

[Jack-Nader]

Sure, Send me your savegame.  PM me and i'll give you an email addy to send it.  Oh and make sure it's not the autosave to the fight.  If I spawn right infront of the rage demon I won't be impressed

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 26 mai 2011 - 08:06 .

[AreleX]

Kaylord, man, everything you need to do to clear this is laid out right in front of you, between my mage guide, the tutorial vid, and the posts in panchamkaun's (hugs and kisses) thread. All you have to do is follow it. It sounds like your team and your Hawke are in need of an overhaul. Check my mage guide out for builds and tactics and such, and you're free to ask me if you still need help, but for this, it's already here.

[Kaylord]

No progress yet, as I am at work now, the wheather was and still is super nice, my wife demands attention, and the beer, too, so I have to accomodate some rage and desire demons first in order to beat the others... ;*)

AreleX, as I learned from the "unstealth" discussion in this threat, some maybe not so obvious things had to be met in order to achive the goal. Example:  As we discovered during the discussions, without a high enough base damage, the unstealthing did not work most of the time, even though Bioware stated in the game tips that spells work independly from the attack´s hit/damage ratings.

I used Aveline once or twice, too, but sadly she is not skilled with Cleave yet. Shield bash was enough so far to ccc-chainlightning comfortably through Hawke and Merril cooldowns. With her I in the group came indeed very far, but the adds were still overwhelming, latest when the reaver appears. I see Jack´s point about an all-balance-group sitting at the wrong spot in the bell curve, though, so I guess I have to use some make´s sigh potions soon.

The most fascinating thing for me is that "all i have to do is follow" the hints, but I seem to be too blind to do so. I will send the safe file asap, and hope for an eye-opener.

Modifié par Kaylord, 26 mai 2011 - 08:54 .

[AreleX]

Grab some Maker's Sigh potions for yourself and your companion, follow my guide, check the tutorial video again (the two main things to take away are focus fire and Archer's Lance CCC), grab some Electricity staves, and you should do fine.

The reason I say 'everything is right there' is because if the tutorial video isn't enough, then it sounds like you have problems with your build and the builds for your companions. That's why I'm suggesting my guide; everything you need to know for that is right in it.

I apologize if I'm coming across as harsh, it's just mildly frustrating to see someone struggle when they could easily be not just succeeding, but clearing with ease.