520 réponses à ce sujet

[mr_afk]

btw, "huuuuhhh?" base damage has everything to do with spells (if that was what you meant by damage ratings) - and i'm not sure how attack-rating comes into this.

Destealthing is to do with force relative to the enemies health. Force is to do amount of damage done multiplied by the force multiplier. Of course someone with more damage will be better at desteathing! This is also why certain spells are better at destealthing specific enemy types.

You do understand why people suggest the things they do right? as in, more damage via CCCs = things dead faster = not getting overwhelmed?

The gauntlet is particularly fun in this regards. THe enemy spawns seem to be time-based and will spawn no matter how many of the enemies you've killed - so if you kill them all you'll have to wait around and if you don't kill them fast enough...you'll have to handle more than one wave at a time.

If you understand the core idea behind the hint you don't actually have to 'follow it', rather just take it and use it to develop your own ideas. Following a guide word for word is pretty pointless imo, a guide is what it says it is, a guide - helping you find the right direction but not doing it for you.. blehh. goodluck whatever it is. haha

Modifié par mr_afk, 26 mai 2011 - 09:27 .

[Kaylord]

AreleX, I think you and some forum inhabitants here are far too modest, in a weird way. This encounter is quite a difficult puzzle to solve, and you seem to be so deeply tuned with the obvious and unobvious game´s mechanics that you don´t even realize it anymore.

[AreleX]

Spawn times are set, meaning no matter how fast you kill the enemies, they will spawn at the same rate.

My guides are meant to be followed closely, because I write them for maximum synergy with not only your Hawke's abilities, but the abilities of your companions as well.

You should read them, you might learn something.



(you were so asking for it)

[mr_afk]

hahaha true, should have seen that coming 

I actually have read/looked through most your guides. They're very nicely wriiten and colourful but always seem a little too...generic for my tastes
With the exception of the walking bomb setup (which never seems to work for me) the setups I come up with myself usually work as intended anyway. Maybe i'll read through your walking bomb setup and figure out what's wrong with mine... but first - Xebenkeck!! 

Modifié par mr_afk, 26 mai 2011 - 10:12 .

[AreleX]

generic?

*mean joke about crit/plate mage thread and high horse here*

[mr_afk]

I thought you'd like that 

Nah, what I mean is that your builds are like the traditional/standard way to do things. Either read it as your guides are so popular that everyone starts using them or that they are the most straightforward approach to take haha

They definitely work, but I somewhat prefer using and coming up with more unique builds, even if they somewhat suck (my general opinion of my experimental crit-mage build is that while it is viable, it's way too limiting to be practical). I think it did help me get an understanding of how to create crit-builds for non-rogue classes and so far my warrior is working really well.... though so far I'm failing at soloing xebenkeck while staying in the room hahaha

I got past the stage with the revenant (so killed xebenkeck, two rage demons, a few abominations, and the revenent) but still haven't figured out how to get past the fun 'getting chased by ~5 rage demons' part.
I'm thinking it might be necessary to buff up my character with some potions etc.

On a related note, do you know if rage demons steal potions? It seems like they do? There's this weird drinking sound and I always end up with less potions than I should, though I don't actually notice their health recovering much.

Modifié par mr_afk, 26 mai 2011 - 10:48 .

[AreleX]

They may have become a standard, but they sure as hell didn't start out that way.

Yes, Rage Demons work just like Assassins in every way, basically.

[mr_afk]

Hm, fair enough then. I think I joined these forums too late to experience much of the dark ages before you and your guides spread out enlightenment about how to do things.

haha anyway, good work on educating the masses - I enjoyed reading your guides anyway.
My favourite/the most true quote would have to be:
"Let me tell you, there is NO BETTER FEELING than getting backstabbed by an Assassin/Templar Hunter, activating Sacrificial Frenzy, turning around and BEATING HIM ****ING SENSELESS. In the FACE. Oh my god, it is catharic."



**** YES!!! Finally solo'd xebenkeck without leaving the room! Was rather messy though so might try it again haha.

Modifié par mr_afk, 26 mai 2011 - 11:36 .

[AreleX]

Ah...the early days. The might of Vengeance was yet undiscovered, everyone (read: idiots) thought Mages were terrible, and my three-minute dragon kill was quite impressive. Forces was the coolest video ever, and people actually believed me when I told them that Anders had an ability that summoned Ser Pounce-A-Lot, but only if you romanced him as a male Hawke, and took him to the Dwarf-Hole bar in Lowtown. Hard to think that it was only a little over two months ago. Where would we all be now, if not for my pink font?

I'd carry a little baby Templar Hunter around to backstab me at the start of combat if I could. Bioware needs to drop everything and make this happen.

I seriously suggest you give my guides a read, man. From the looks of things, your Hawke builds are pretty solid, but your companions are borderline paste-eaters. You could be doing things much faster, and better, than you are now.

[mr_afk]

You actually got people to believe that???! hahaha actually, I vaguely remember reading something about a cat - you even had it in anders' tactics didn't you? 


But yeah, my companions are pretty terrible. Jack-Nader keeps telling me to optimise them better etc.
It's cos I build them like my hawke, really glass cannon and with certain roles in mind which only microing can pull off.

I'm thinking that I'll try and work out a disorient walking bomb setup where an elite walking bombed target gets assaulted/scattered by my hawke which should deal enough CCC damage to trigger the explosion, much like the rogue assassination walking bomb setup.
THe only problem is that my disorient gets stolen by my mages (who stonefist or spirit bolt it) or the other enemies run away from hawke cos she's so scary.

I'm thinking that pretty simple tactics like this could work:
Varric/Sebastian/Isabela
enemy:clustered four or more: fatiguing fog
enemy:????:use for next condition
hawke:any: goad

Anders
enemy:elite or higher: use for next condition
enemy:disorient: walking bomb

Anders/Merrill
enemy:normal or lower: use for next condition
enemy:disoriented: spirit bolt/stonefist


But I'm not too sure what to use for goad (companions been attacked wouldn't work for what I have in mind), and so far I've never got it to work properly via tactics - Anders either blows himself up with a bomb (targets a near-dead enemy next to him) or the elite loses the disorient/walking bomb. Oh well, i'll figure it out later. Dinner!

Modifié par mr_afk, 26 mai 2011 - 11:59 .

[Jack-Nader]

Here you go Kaylord!



Note that I chose only the minimum talents required to complete the gauntlet.

O.k so first of all.. you're build

Hawke:
The first thing that needed rectifying is the horrible gear selection. Your armor rating was a paltry 27% and that's with rock armor activated! I bet you've been getting knocked about like a cue ball. I went straight to lowtown and picked up the highest armor rating fire robes for that character level. To refresh the shop inventory you must reload the autosave.

Second thing that needed fixing was your staff. Your hawke was specced as a fire mage so I picked up the highest base damage fire staff I could find. @ level 17 this is a 37 base staff. Hawke's stave was purchased from the trinkets store. Again, reload the autosave until you find exactly what you are looking for.

To finnish up I chucked on as much fire% apparel as I could.

Companion Mages.
Merrill had a cold staff and Anders an electricity staff. Both had very low base damage so I picked up two 37 base bound staves from trinkets while I was searching for Hawke's staff.

Next I went to Bonny Lem's store searching for cold% belts and rings. These items should always be picked up in act I when they are cheap. I had to pay 3 times the price to pick up the equivelent item as I would in act I. Again, reload the autosave until you have 4 cold rings and 2 cold belts. These items are good for the entire game! Never leave act I without them.

I ended up giving you all your gold back through the console as the total cost was ridiculous (due to cold% gear being 3 times the price.)

Now we're sorted it's time to have a look at your specs.

Hawke's build was fine except for his attribute distribution. I boosted his willpower to satisfy the armor requirement. This includes prebuffing with valsidines +2 willpower. The rest of the attribute points went into magic. Hawke mage does not need ANY points in constitution. Picking blood mage spec adds +25 health. You can also pick vitality in the spirit healer line for +50 health.

Varric's build needed fully upgraded archers lance. That's really the only thing wrong with his build. I am used to playing as a rogue myself so for this fight I actually took all varric's attribute points and put them into dexterity. If he's your lock picker then keep his attribute points as is. For talents, get rid of miasma and stealth. Both are rather pointless talents. Varric's gear was rather poor but I didn't bother changing anything. In future deck him out with all those %physical damage items you find.

Merrill's build was a complete goof up. I'm not sure what you were trying to do here I specced her into an elemental/hex mage. Every attribute point goes into magic.

Ander's was also a terrible build. I specced him into an elemental/creation mage.

Now there is a concept that holds true for this game which most people really aren't getting. You can either play a "defensive" build or an "offensive" build. Trying to create a character that falls squarely into both catagories is a recipe for getting your ass kicked! You end up having too little offensive power to make a dent and too little staying power to survive the onslaught. In future, pick one or the other. Never try to be both!

The offensive build ->
Mage -> Every single point into magic until the 100 cap is reached. Then start putting them into dexterity. (cunning not dex if you plan to use fully upgraded hex of torment.)  Full elemental line is a must!
Rogue -> Every single point into dexterity UNTIL you are near 100% crit chance. At this point start piling attribute points into cunning.
Warrior -> Every point into strength until the 100 cap is reached. Then start chucking them into dexterity. (cunning not dex if you plan to use fully upgraded hex of torment.)

The defensive build ->
Mage -> High constitution, armor, health regeneration, disabling spells.
Rogue -> High consitution, armor, disabling talents.
Warrior -> High consition, armor, defensive talents.

Hope that helps!

*Oh a note on anders.  I used vengence for the entire fight.  With your build as is, vengence would be a death sentence for anders.  It only becomes viable when you really start to put the hurt on hostiles.  The more damage you do, the less damage you take.   There is a threshold that you must reach first before you can use it.  When mobs start getting totally owned, you'll know when you've crossed it.

*I was just looking through your tactics. They seem to be all over the place. It wouldn't hurt to check out some of the tactic guides listed in suicidalbaby's signature.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 27 mai 2011 - 03:44 .

[AreleX]

You're such a sweetheart, Jack Nader.

<3

[Kaylord]

Jack, thanks a lot! That´s more help than I ever expected! I learned a lot on those details.

Just a few thoughts behind the initial design you found in my safefile, and some conclusions:

- Hawke and in general:

I had hoped to find a lot better equip by using all those +equip items. As you can see from what I gathered so far, those +equip items do not seem to make any meaningful difference, and I had three of them on Hawke and one on Varric. Only once I had a 33 base damage cold staff dropped, with a +9 against qunari; that was all I ever got as notable above-the-average loot (and then I accidentally reloaded a quicksave and it was gone...)

The low armor rating was never a problem for Hawke. With +100 fortititude and some points in constitution, he stood his ground most of the time, especially against pesky archers, as he was not meant to be hit at all otherwise. I thought this to be the most efficient use of the immovable-passsive. With your glass cannon playstyle, it shouldn´t have been a problem, either?

My goal was to go elemental/prime plus FM/SM, so that I wouldn´t need too much willpower and always have enough mana due to a high enough base pool and insane mana regeneration. That´s why I was at 24 willpower and 20 constitution, the rest into magic.

I tried to buy only some very notable or very basic items from stores, for the rest relying on loot with that +equip stuff. I figured the looted staves with the only a little lower base damage would do the trick, too, if I compensated with good gameplay, and with juggling all those ccc and crowd controlers. Ok, that did not work in the gauntlet...
Now I guess I have to figure how to get cold-blooded, etched ring of the twins, and so on!

As you could see, every party member had runes of fortune in their armor, for best net gain of gold. Even though, I only had 70 gold at end of act II, and I don´t know how much you had to spend for the improvements you bought for me.

Concerning +% fire, I thought I had everything I could get. Amulet and ring and armor were swapped-out due to the said +equip concept, which sadly did not work out.

A little detail on firestorm: while everyone seems to suggest to go for apacalyptic storm, I found that the smaller area of effect was much better to control, and the fireballs seemed to hit the same spots more often, as compared to being spread out in that larger effect area. So I skipped on the little additional damage. All in all, it never turned out to be the crowd killer, so I wanted to experiment with a fully upgrated primal mastery/tempest/strikes twice, which on top does no ff.

Upgraded Maker´s hammer, well I had a discussion on that with AreleX, I still had it for additional stagger-ccc, since I did not want to play a BM. It was doing ok, as a backup-finisher.

- Party and tactics:

Varric:

I already noted the mistake of not skilling archer´s lance for Varric. So far, I had Fenris in my group, so his mighty blow would do the ccc job.

I was too stingy to reskill Varric, I admit, that´s why he was still running around with Miasmic (and I wasn´t sure yet whether to go the fatiguing fog-route).

Stealth was an early game measure against archers, the tactics would activate it only on ranged attacks.

His equip was primarily for runes of fortune, +gold, +equip, the rest was balanced between +%-physical and +attack/+crit, whatever I found for that, I put there.

Merril:

She was my crowd controller with horror/petrify, went full primal for best net effect, of course hex of torment, and as a bonus she sometimes very succesfully set up that walking bomb into a gravitic ring and provided elemental weapons. I never used her together with Anders until I read here about the all-ranged concept, that´s probably why you were wondering on the redundancy of elemental weapons and walking bomb. I was unsure how to use her personal tree, though, except for the blood magic. With her items, she had a 6 mana for 1 life ratio.

Also I was too stingy to respec (all those maker´s sigh potions cost gold...), that´s why she was still running around with 18 willpower. I can see now how I underestimated stats (I am still a fan of skill>stats, but it never really  turns true, as you actually need both^^).

Anders:

I thought him to be "standard issue"? I got the glyph+walking bomb tactics here from the forum and integrated it, again without bothering to respecc his initial skills, since winters grasp is always good to have. Vengeance came for free during his personal quest, so I could saddle up with the 80%-cooldown passive.

I gave him a lot of willpower, because he was meant as support, only in act III he would have saddled up on vengeance. But I can see now your point about the middle of the bell curve as the worst sport to be.

Excurs: Fenris - he is supposed to be a damage beast, but he gets an occasional hit, that´s why I put not everything in strenght and give him about 25 constitution. Later - and with enough gold - he was supposed to get the various immunity equipment.

Tactics:

Yeah, I played around with some ideas and those which did not work out, I just switched those off instead of clearing them, that´s why you found that mess, I guess.

I am trying to get that free flow feeling, but until now, micro-ing crucial moments turned out better. Especially Petrify and Winters Graps seem always to go wrong when not micro-ed. That´s why my tactics only refer to the basics, i.e. healing or the obligatory ccc-closure. I added the spirit bomb tactics for Anders, which I found here. If I did something terribly wrong there, please point it out. It makes not much sense to just copy stuff from guides when you don´t understand what´s behind it.

Thanks again, and a lot, your hints were really really helpful!


EDIT: Gauntlet cleared! Yay! I marvelled at all the high damage figures which were suddenly floating around! I really did seriously underestimate stat points distribution!!! I just respecced Varric (40 dex/ 30 cun) and Merrill (23 con / rest magic), their dps almost doubled, and archer´s lance and death hex made sure every boss went down quickly this time. In a second reload, I even dared to kick Anders and to put back Fenris, and it worked, too (especially the staggers caused almost every second by crits and cleave were perfect for ccc on shades and abominations)!

Modifié par Kaylord, 27 mai 2011 - 10:12 .

[Jack-Nader]

Sweet! Glad I could help

[Graunt]

AreleX wrote...

Hearing the general amount of foolishness and misinformation about how 'terrible' Mages are in DA2, I decided to give a Mage playthrough a shot. The results were quite the opposite of what popular opinion would have you believe, as I had an awesome time, was incredibly powerful, and was presented with many different ways to play/things to use/strategies to learn.

Having played all three classes, I can say that I understand why people think Mages aren't good; they take far more work and intuition on the part of the player than a Warrior, and even a Rogue (though to a lesser extent). The burden of failure falls squarely on the shoulders of the player, and if you don't perform or control the battle as you should, things will end badly. With this in mind, I wrote a Mage guide, and created a Mage tutorial video. Though I'm using Force/Elemental/Primal talents, the knowledge within applies to the class as a whole.

I'm really late to this thread, but congrats on learning for yourself what the few early Mage proponents were saying all along.  Not that you were really a doubter or anything to begin with.

Modifié par Graunt, 27 mai 2011 - 11:36 .

[AreleX]

GRAAAAAAAAAAAUNT!

What've you been up to, buddy? I'd imagine left with some free time, since Grumpy Old Wizard scampered out of the forums when he was proven a fool.

[Graunt]

AreleX wrote...

GRAAAAAAAAAAAUNT!

What've you been up to, buddy? I'd imagine left with some free time, since Grumpy Old Wizard scampered out of the forums when he was proven a fool.

Just finishing my second playthrough of The Witcher 2, and then never touching that game ever again.  The combat in that game is just sooooo awful.  Despite the flaws with DA2, at least it had some pretty fun gameplay most of the time, and it also allowed for a little experimentation.  

Before anyone can come in and lecture me about how I'm just bad at the combat or whatever--I don't play on easy or normal, and even people that play on normal find that the curve is way off.  The start of the game is really lopsided, then by the time you reach the middle of the game it's pretty much trivial, and then finally at the start of the last chapter (which is very short), you are essentially in "god mode".  The developers tried to combine Batman AA with Demon's Souls and didn't get any of it right, nor did they know what they were doing with the skill tree balance.

/rant off, eagerly awaits for the third week of August.

Modifié par Graunt, 27 mai 2011 - 12:05 .

[AreleX]

So it's not the second coming of Christ that disgruntled Dragon Age fans wish it was?

That is...oddly satisfying!

[Graunt]

AreleX wrote...

So it's not the second coming of Christ that disgruntled Dragon Age fans wish it was?

That is...oddly satisfying!

Once you get past the graphics, you'll find it's a pretty hollow experience.  The story and characters are actually really interesting for 2/3 of the game, and then it just suddenly ends in a bad way (KOTOR 2).  After that, you're like "Well, that was good...I guess???".  If you do any real research on the reviews, and don't just cling to the 5/5 10/10 reviews as the gospel, you'll find some pretty honest ones out there.  They highlight what is really wrong with the game--but of course none of those could possibly be "true", and you'd have to be a Bioware fanboy or some kind of hater to believe them.

[buggirl]

Just a note of thank you. I usually play on hard (my sweet spot for gaming) but watching your videos/challenges/guides and exchanges has improved my gameplay to the point that I could be giving Nightmare a shot. Good job!

[AreleX]

You're very welcome, let me know if you need any help.

Modifié par AreleX, 27 mai 2011 - 05:54 .