157 réponses à ce sujet

[Computer_God91]

Soahfreako wrote...

TL;DR

I figured as much from you.

[JediMB]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Murmillos wrote...

wargarbal.. heat sinks..

Does ME2 have any way to explain how after being stranded for 9 years and isolated, the survivers of MSV Hugo Gernsback have recent heatsink technology?

Or do are we just waving a magic hand and forgetting that little "opps", that mission must have been finished before they developed heatsinks?

Actually, if you listen to Zaeed's stories about Jessie he specifically refers to her using clips in a story that was set five years prior to ME2, and the rifle itself is at least fifteen years old, so it's entirely possible that heat clips were used at the time, but they were considered to be inferior. Less demand means less cost, the perfect weapons for a merc just getting started, or security aboard a civilian vessel owned by a company too cheap to spring for the good weapons that wouldn't expect their security officers to be seeing enough combat that they'd need to fire more than a few dozen shots anyway.

He might also have been referring to the ammo block. I recall Wrex made a reference to those running out back in ME1.

As for how that mission could have been done differently... Shepard's crew could have picked up a set of older weapons after setting down on the planet. So good bye to the ammo and hello to overheating for the duration of the mission. I think that would have been neat.

[Rurik_Niall]

Possible, but he specifically says "I don't remember ejecting a clip once." Story here.

Modifié par Rurik_Niall, 28 avril 2011 - 12:09 .

[Phaedon]

[quote]Computer_God91 wrote...
Yes, I love overheating weapons cause they were different then ammo and the lore behind it was pretty solid. If they had had ammo in ME1 instead of adding it in ME2 chances are I wouldn't have ever complained. Yes, you probaby can use spam tactics to win fights but I never played that way. Overheating was nice because I never ran out of ammo for the gun my class is designed for.[/quote]
You guys are starting to make yourselves jokes after repeating the same incorrect statement again and again.
Heatsinks are basically heat clips that are changed once the mission is over. Also, what kind of genious would think of a system that meant sure death in CQC.

[quote[Example: I play Vanguard in both games, I have a shotgun and a pistol. In ME1 I can use my Shotgun all day long and never have a problem same with pistol. My class was made for those weapons and I don't need to think about what will happen if I'm out of ammo and have to start playing my class the way it wasn't designed to play and get owned in five seconds (mind you I play Hardcore only). [/quote]
What about overheating?
[quote]it wasn't designed to play and get owned in five seconds (mind you I play Hardcore only). [/quote]
Absolutely not.

[quote]In ME2 the classes are even more heavily stressed to play a certain way. Example: As a vanguard changing is your main method for killing people and with Shotgun in hand, you're a god. Try that with a pistol and chances are you're doomed, but at a certain point in the game you will run out of ammo[/quote]
Not a true statement. In all of my playthroughs I have only ran out of ammo twice. And that was because of my horrible management of ammunition.

[quote]and you will have to use that pistol. Now you can't charge, which being you're main method of murder makes the game annoying, and hunting for ammo 'thermal' clips is also annoying when you only find one bullet at a time.[/quote]
Try using shotguns in long-range and mid-range combat. 

[quote]when you only find one bullet at a time.[/quote]
Look, exaggerating to the point that you are lying is incredibly frequent and irritating on these boards.

[quote]I don't hate the thermal clip idea I just hate this whole ammo idea. From a lore perspective it makes no sense.[/quote]

Self-contradictive and incorrect statement at the same time. Next.

[quote]Alright, cool. So I can fire my guns and never think about not being able to use my gun cause of ammo related issues.[/quote]
Unless they are completely different than contemporary bullets which I doubt due to the barrel, then I'd love to hear how you would use bullets of that small calibre.

[quote]Alright, that makes sense, who wants to wait while there weapon cools off? Just eject that heat sink and continue your barage of firing, but wait a second, the Geth said that its won by the side who can put the most rounds down range, so following that logic then they wouldn't want to do anything that might stop them from using their gun altogether right? Well that's where you're wrong. You can run out of ammo "Thermal Clips" for your gun and be unable to use it till you find more. which following the Geth's logic just made things worse cause you can only fire a set amount of rounds before you can not use the gun altogether. So it would make overheating seem like the better idea anyway cause yes, you might have to pause combat to let the heat vent but you're not limited to the amount of rounds you can fire, so you just wait until your enemy is out of ammo "Thermal Clips" then you walk up and shoot them. You now won the fight. Thus why overheating from a lore perspective is better.[/quote]
Uh, Shepard, who enganges more enemies than anyone else at the same time rarely has that problem, so no.

Really, really.
just

NO.

[quote]Here's my suggestion for fixing this Gameplay and lore confliction, make a hybrid system. Unlimited "ammo" but you still need to "reload" (let the heat vent via thermal heat sink). Pistol shoots 16 rounds eject a sink, resume firing. Now it makes more sense from both perspectives.[/quote]
Yes, yes, we have already played that mod, it combines the worst elements of both systems.

[quote]Now, if you want me to do the same thing with why Biotics should react like they did in ME1 please let me know, I'm just not sure if you want to read another massive wall of text. Which was longer cause I went on a rant about story and atmosphere but deleted it because this is already too long.[/quote]
Explain what you mean with this paragraph.

[quote]In before Cool story, bro!

[/quote]
Horrible story, bro, self-contradictive and incorrect.




Also, this has nothing to do with RPG elements, which is another reason why I can't find people with your signature serious anymore.

Modifié par Phaedon, 28 avril 2011 - 01:30 .

[KennethAFTopp]

I like having Heatsink/ammo system more than Cool down from ME1. that's just me, I just figured it was a retcon.

Now regarding something like RPG elements, I am thinking something akin to the DAII skill trees perchance?

Modifié par KennethAFTopp, 28 avril 2011 - 02:34 .

[TheConfidenceMan]

They have to add more skills, or rather add them back after taking them away in 2. Hacking and persuasion need to come back at least, and hacking needs to be class-exclusive like it was in Mass Effect. A weapon expert soldier shouldn't be able to hack/bypass, period. A Leadership skill for Shepard that adds buffs for teammates in combat would be welcome, and maybe a Resilience skill to increase health along with biotic and environmental resistances.

Party members should have as many skills as Shepard like they did in the first game. 2 or 3 is just plain measly. A badass biotic should have a full range of powers, not just a few.

Armor customization needs to come back for the squad, too, of course that would work against their dlc-selling scheme so I'm not holding my breath.

[Akizora]

Having a thousand options to modify a weapon only to have a handful of optimal ones that you'll end up using anyway does not state RPG to me. To me an RPG is its story, narrative, characters and level of interaction. It is the ability to explore sidemissions/quests to flesh out the universe and to be your character. I make an exception for JRPGs because they are almost never interactive and reactive, they're just partially interactive stories...So for JRPGs its about items and sidebosses

[KennethAFTopp]

Leadership skill could be a soldier exclusive?

[TheConfidenceMan]

Shepard exclusive, since he's the team leader. Every character should have a couple exclusive skills (so Persuasion and Leadership for Shepard) in addition to a full range of shared class skills.

[Schneidend]

I'd say they're already on the right track to "rich RPG" by giving each power multiple evolutions as you invest points in it instead of just at the final investiture. Y'know, even though Baldur's Gate never had any skill customization even half as deep as ME2, and nobody whined about it then, and the BG series is still considered some of the greatest RPG goodness of all goddamn time.

[Da Mecca]

Baldur's Gate had attributes and party dynamics meant far more than they ever did in Mass Effect.

Also had more dialogue options.

[AlexRmF]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Alright, that makes sense, who wants to wait while there weapon cools off? Just eject that heat sink and continue your barage of firing, but wait a second, the Geth said that its won by the side who can put the most rounds down range, so following that logic then they wouldn't want to do anything that might stop them from using their gun altogether right? Well that's where you're wrong. You can run out of ammo "Thermal Clips" for your gun and be unable to use it till you find more. which following the Geth's logic just made things worse cause you can only fire a set amount of rounds before you can not use the gun altogether. So it would make overheating seem like the better idea anyway cause yes, you might have to pause combat to let the heat vent but you're not limited to the amount of rounds you can fire, so you just wait until your enemy is out of ammo "Thermal Clips" then you walk up and shoot them. You now won the fight. Thus why overheating from a lore perspective is better.

Here's my suggestion for fixing this Gameplay and lore confliction, make a hybrid system. Unlimited "ammo" but you still need to "reload" (let the heat vent via thermal heat sink). Pistol shoots 16 rounds eject a sink, resume firing. Now it makes more sense from both perspectives.

Now, if you want me to do the same thing with why Biotics should react like they did in ME1 please let me know, I'm just not sure if you want to read another massive wall of text. Which was longer cause I went on a rant about story and atmosphere but deleted it because this is already too long.

In before Cool story, bro!

you just came up with a very interesting idea mister, and based on it, I had another one that you might like:
make that hybrid system you're talking about, but working like this: for all the counted ammo you need to use thermal clips, since you can fire without the fear of overheating your weapon, but when you're out of thermal clips, just let the old ME system kick in (unlimited ammo), where you'll have to keep an eye on that heat-meter and avoid overheading which would make your gun unusable.
this sysem would not only respect the codex of both games, but it would also make a lot of fans happier^_^

[Schneidend]

Da Mecca wrote...

Baldur's Gate had attributes and party dynamics meant far more than they ever did in Mass Effect.

Also had more dialogue options.

Without mods, the party members in the original Baldur's Gate rarely said a word beyond their soundset stuff, and dialogue options? You rarely got more than three. Mass Effect's wheel supports six and usually has at least four.

[AlexRmF]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

I'd agree, but keep the ability to change ammo types on the fly, and actually make the different equipment mean something. I'd rather have just three different rifles that all act completely different and are all viable options than three dozen rifles with the majority just having different colours and slight upgrades over the others. I'd also tweak the power cooldown system, having multiple cooldowns rather than one global one. Biotic cooldown, tech cooldown, unity cooldown, ammo cooldown, etc.

I'm really down with that power's classification cooldown, and not the overall one used in ME2. it makes a lot more sense to immediately be able to use an ammo power after you just used incineration, or unity since there's no mental recharging needed to perform the next action that could save your life or help you win a fight.

[Ahglock]

Others have brought this up before but assuming what the geth said was true, why would you go with their system instead of building effectively a revolver system with old style heat sinks. As soon as one is about to over heat it switches to the next, by the time you get back to the first it will have cooled down. Effectively unlimited ammo and no cool down period best of both worlds. Lets just face it the lore sucks on this, it is purely a game play reason with a craptasitc lore excuse placed on top. Whether or not the game play change was good for you is up to you to decide. For me, it had no effect. I shoot basically the same in both games. I never run out of ammo and I reload about as often as I need to grab cover, and in ME1 I had to grab cover about as often as I needed to wait for cooldowns. Now I don't shoot walls and stuff like I would in ME1 when I was bored, not sure if that is an improvement or not.

[Epic777]

Da Mecca wrote...

Baldur's Gate had attributes and party dynamics meant far more than they ever did in Mass Effect.

Also had more dialogue options.

Of course it did, BG was a pure RPG series, ME is a hybrid RPG-shooter

[AlexRmF]

Phaedon wrote...

In ME2 the classes are even more heavily stressed to play a certain way. Example: As a vanguard changing is your main method for killing people and with Shotgun in hand, you're a god. Try that with a pistol and chances are you're doomed, but at a certain point in the game you will run out of ammo

Not a true statement. In all of my playthroughs I have only ran out of ammo twice. And that was because of my horrible management of ammunition.

in the ME universe you're not supposed to run out of ammo no matter how bad your "ammo management" skills are (ha ha ha ammo management... damn) , so you whole dismissing ideas post is irellevant.
the man has a great point with the hybrid system and Bioware should look at it more seriously.

[stonbw1]

Simply stated, I'd like to feel like the choices and statements I make in the game have some genuine, realistic consequence. . . just like in real life.

[The Spamming Troll]

Ahglock wrote...
 Now I don't shoot walls and stuff like I would in ME1 when I was bored, not sure if that is an improvement or not.

i dont know how many times id run around the citadel shooting at NPCs feet adn throwing  grenades across the presidium lake.

that was sorta fun!

[Ahglock]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Ahglock wrote...
 Now I don't shoot walls and stuff like I would in ME1 when I was bored, not sure if that is an improvement or not.

i dont know how many times id run around the citadel shooting at NPCs feet adn throwing  grenades across the presidium lake.

that was sorta fun!

Yeah it is kind of a random fun vs immersion argument I think.  I'm not sure which I prefer to win out.  

[Savber100]

Phaedon wrote...

Also, this has nothing to do with RPG elements, which is another reason why I can't find people with your signature serious anymore.

It was my bad. I asked him what he thought about the ammo system and he was only answering my question.

Also, no need to be too harsh. It's an opinion and not even flammatory for that matter.

Da Mecca wrote...

Baldur's Gate had attributes and party dynamics meant far more than they ever did in Mass Effect.

Also had more dialogue options.

I agree on the party dynamics and attributes but I always treated ME as a shooter with great role--playing elements. To me, DA was meant to be the sucessor of the more stat-driven, hardcore games of old while ME tried a more TPS/RPG hybrid. It worked for me and I have always treated the two RPGs as different subgenres of overall RPG market.

What do you mean by the lack of dialogue options? Sure, the old RPGs like PT and BG had a vast illusion of choices where most dialogues just end up linking into 2-3 different results. The ME dialogue wheel cuts down the excessive fat and gives the same amount of results. You might feel limited but the results still remains the same.

Modifié par Savber100, 28 avril 2011 - 05:58 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Savber100 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Also, this has nothing to do with RPG elements, which is another reason why I can't find people with your signature serious anymore.

It was my bad. I asked him what he thought about the ammo system and he was only answering my question.

Also, no need to be too harsh. It's an opinion and not even flammatory for that matter.

agreed. i was gonna mention something about phaedon picking apart someones opinion, with his own opinion.

[Rurik_Niall]

Savber100 wrote...

I agree on the party dynamics and attributes but I always treated ME as a shooter with great role--playing elements. To me, DA was meant to be the sucessor of the more stat-driven, hardcore games of old while ME tried a more TPS/RPG hybrid. It worked for me and I have always treated the two RPGs as different subgenres of overall RPG market.

What do you mean by the lack of dialogue options? Sure, the old RPGs like PT and BG had a vast illusion of choices where most dialogues just end up linking into 2-3 different results. The ME dialogue wheel cuts down the excessive fat and gives the same amount of results. You might feel limited but the results still remains the same.

The outcome of a given situation may be the same, but when role playing it's how you reach that outcome that makes it interesting, that's what separates RPG's like Baldur's Gate or Mass Effect from Japanese menu based strategy games like Final Fantasy.

[DDK]

I would add different voices for one thing. I find that my options are very limited with character creation because of the voices. I would love to play a mercenary in a similar style to Zaeed, but there is just NO way that the standard Shepard voice suits a character like that. The same goes for the female voice, I'd love to play a demure Shepard but the female Shepard voice is kinda hardcore Ripley style.