157 réponses à ce sujet

[lolwut666]

As I understand it, what makes an RPG is the ability to role-play.

Most of the suggestions here would only make the game slow and cumbersome.

I don't see the point of adding said "RPG features" simply for the heck of it.

[Phaedon]

AlexRmF wrote...
in the ME universe you're not supposed to run out of ammo no matter how bad your "ammo management" skills are (ha ha ha ammo management... damn) , so you whole dismissing ideas post is irellevant.
the man has a great point with the hybrid system and Bioware should look at it more seriously.

You are not supposed?
How so.

Savber100 wrote...
Also, no need to be too harsh. It's an opinion and not even flammatory for that matter. 

Harsh? Maybe.
But are you okay with people blaming ME2 for things that are not true and with hyperboles (Omg ME2 has no plot), just because they 'disliked it'?

Okay.

How about when they spam these boards with it and have an effect on Bioware.

The Spamming Troll wrote...
agreed. i was gonna mention something about phaedon picking apart someones opinion, with his own opinion.

Hello,Spamming Troll.

lolwut666 wrote...

As I understand it, what makes an RPG is the ability to role-play.

Most of the suggestions here would only make the game slow and cumbersome.

I don't see the point of adding said "RPG features" simply for the heck of it.

That's pretty much the point of elitism. Adding features of a specific genre that conflict with other features or gameplay in general, just for the heck of it.

Modifié par Phaedon, 28 avril 2011 - 07:01 .

[Ahglock]

lolwut666 wrote...

As I understand it, what makes an RPG is the ability to role-play.

Most of the suggestions here would only make the game slow and cumbersome.

I don't see the point of adding said "RPG features" simply for the heck of it.

What makes a RPG varies dramatically from person to person.  Just saying the ability to role play puts in well virtually every game in existence.  Some people think its inventory management is the key, probably the same people who carried around a  golf bag of +1 swords in D&D and knew exactly where there 9 daggers were located.  

For pure RPGs I think character skill determining results over player skill is key.  Because once it is player skill you are no longer taking on the "role" of someone else.  Hybrids like Mass Effect don't need to follow this, and will hopefully have stong RPG components in other areas.  

[lolwut666]

Ahglock wrote...

 Just saying the ability to role play puts in well virtually every game in existence.  

I don't see how.

It's not role-play unless you're making your own choices.

A game like Devil May Cry, for example, you're not so much role-playing Dante as you are guiding him through predetermined paths to reach a set ending.

In Mass Effect, your characters actions can effect, even if not dramatically, the world around them and have long-term repercussions. The story is not set in stone, which is why it's role-play.

Saying that every game is "role-playing" is just a strawman used often by RPG purists.

[Phaedon]

Ahglock wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

As I understand it, what makes an RPG is the ability to role-play.

Most of the suggestions here would only make the game slow and cumbersome.

I don't see the point of adding said "RPG features" simply for the heck of it.

What makes a RPG varies dramatically from person to person.  Just saying the ability to role play puts in well virtually every game in existence.  Some people think its inventory management is the key, probably the same people who carried around a  golf bag of +1 swords in D&D and knew exactly where there 9 daggers were located.  

For pure RPGs I think character skill determining results over player skill is key.  Because once it is player skill you are no longer taking on the "role" of someone else.  Hybrids like Mass Effect don't need to follow this, and will hopefully have stong RPG components in other areas.  

A non-'roleplaying' defintion singles out all RPGs that are not DnD style of games. The only true RPGs would be the ones that have statistical character development. And that's because of various limitations, both on board games and the first CRPGs who didn't allow you to have a full role-playing experience.

Also, no 'pure' games of other genres have roleplaying. While statistical character development could be found in some games in very limited amount, decision making and actual role-playing are absent.

[Rurik_Niall]

Ahglock wrote...

What makes a RPG varies dramatically from person to person.  Just saying the ability to role play puts in well virtually every game in existence.  Some people think its inventory management is the key, probably the same people who carried around a  golf bag of +1 swords in D&D and knew exactly where there 9 daggers were located.  

For pure RPGs I think character skill determining results over player skill is key.  Because once it is player skill you are no longer taking on the "role" of someone else.  Hybrids like Mass Effect don't need to follow this, and will hopefully have stong RPG components in other areas.  

That's like saying what makes a cheeseburger varies dramatically from person to person. By definition a cheeseburger is a burger and it has cheese, that is all, anything else is purely complimentary to those two things. You can't argue that a grilled cheese sandwich is a cheeseburger, it has cheese sure but no burger, nor can you argue a burger with no cheese is a cheeseburger, and you certainly can't argue that a peanutbutter sandwich is a cheeseburger because it possesses neither of the qualities that define a cheeseburger. Role-playing is in the very name of the genre just like cheese and burger are in the very name of a cheeseburger.

[theSteeeeels]

lolwut666 wrote...

As I understand it, what makes an RPG is the ability to role-play.

Most of the suggestions here would only make the game slow and cumbersome.

I don't see the point of adding said "RPG features" simply for the heck of it.

for the heck of it ?? most of the suggestions are saying "bring back me1 stuff, except improved"

how is adding custimation for more in depth and personalised charachters "for the heck of it"

ive read numerous posts where my reaction is, "what the? this guys an idiot" then i look att he username and sure enough, it you again

[lolwut666]

theSteeeeels wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

As I understand it, what makes an RPG is the ability to role-play.

Most of the suggestions here would only make the game slow and cumbersome.

I don't see the point of adding said "RPG features" simply for the heck of it.

for the heck of it ?? most of the suggestions are saying "bring back me1 stuff, except improved"

how is adding custimation for more in depth and personalised charachters "for the heck of it"

ive read numerous posts where my reaction is, "what the? this guys an idiot" then i look att he username and sure enough, it you again

Excuse me. I don't speak troll.

[Phaedon]

Ahglock wrote...
For pure RPGs I think character skill determining results over player skill is key.  Because once it is player skill you are no longer taking on the "role" of someone else.  Hybrids like Mass Effect don't need to follow this, and will hopefully have stong RPG components in other areas.  

Correct me if I am wrong, but:

• JRPGs: Taking control of another character
• WRPGs: You are the character.

Statistical progression was necessary because you couldn't assume direct control of your character in pure RPGs.
Since ME2 is also a TPS, you can take partial control over your character's combat as well.

Therefore, ME2 is a very good WRPG?

[Rurik_Niall]

Phaedon wrote...

Correct me if I am wrong, but:

• Japanese menu based strategy games: Taking control of another character
• RPGs: You are the character.

Statistical progression was necessary because you couldn't assume direct control of your character in pure RPGs.
Since ME2 is also a TPS, you can take partial control over your character's combat as well.

Therefore, ME2 is a very good WRPG?

Corrected for you.

[Phaedon]

Well my point still remains.

But, JRPGs allow you to take control of your own character?

Modifié par Phaedon, 28 avril 2011 - 07:26 .

[CroGamer002]

JRPG's and WRPG's DON'T exist.

[The Spamming Troll]

Phaedon wrote...

Savber100 wrote...
Also, no need to be too harsh. It's an opinion and not even flammatory for that matter. 

Harsh? Maybe.
But are you okay with people blaming ME2 for things that are not true and with hyperboles (Omg ME2 has no plot), just because they 'disliked it'?

Okay.

How about when they spam these boards with it and have an effect on Bioware.

The Spamming Troll wrote...
agreed. i was gonna mention something about phaedon picking apart someones opinion, with his own opinion.

Hello,Spamming Troll.

lolwut666 wrote...

As I understand it, what makes an RPG is the ability to role-play.

Most of the suggestions here would only make the game slow and cumbersome.

I don't see the point of adding said "RPG features" simply for the heck of it.

That's pretty much the point of elitism. Adding features of a specific genre that conflict with other features or gameplay in general, just for the heck of it.

ME2 has a plot, it just doesnt go anyhere, and sometimes contrdicts itself with plot holes. ME2 has a plot, it just sucks, especially considering the level of story it had set infront of it with ME1. my third grade neigbor could have written ME2. 

i wouldnt compare the arguments here to the ones from ME1 about the mako sucking or the inventory being clunky. because we all know what happened to those tow things. they dissapeared.

thermal clips are exactly what your refering to when you say adding a feature that goes against its very own gameplay, just for the heck of it. .....and im sure you just adore having ammo in ME2.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 28 avril 2011 - 07:34 .

[ReinaHW]

Phaedon wrote...

Well my point still remains.

But, JRPGs allow you to take control of your own character?

No, they don't.  A JRPG character is a general pre-made character who's cliche, usually male.  You don't get a say on the character nor their development, instead it's all done for you, you just follow a script.

A WRPG character, well if it's something like Fallout, Elder Scrolls and most of Bioware's games and Divinity 2, allow you to create your character who either has a set script, but with varying choices that will have different responses and allow for a different branching point where the player can develop the character at points.
While games like Fallout and Elder Scrolls don't have a script as such for the character you play as, you create the character - male, female, skin colour, abilities, skills and more - and develop the character according to your own actions and feelings.

I'm hoping ME3 will have some RPG aspects back, instead of farther sliding down the 'shooter clone' tunnel that many games do.

[Phaedon]

ReinaHW wrote...
No, they don't.  A JRPG character is a general pre-made character who's cliche, usually male.  You don't get a say on the character nor their development, instead it's all done for you, you just follow a script.

A WRPG character, well if it's something like Fallout, Elder Scrolls and most of Bioware's games and Divinity 2, allow you to create your character who either has a set script, but with varying choices that will have different responses and allow for a different branching point where the player can develop the character at points.
While games like Fallout and Elder Scrolls don't have a script as such for the character you play as, you create the character - male, female, skin colour, abilities, skills and more - and develop the character according to your own actions and feelings.

Is that not what I said? 

WRPGs, unlike JRPGs are about playing your own character.

[ReinaHW]

For the most part, aye, the WRPG's of Two Worlds, Risen and a few others lump you with a generic male only lead, so any 'character' creation and making your own character is more like a JRPG fashion of a typical male lead you have no real say over.

The WRPG's that allow you to create your character - gender, appearance, development - allow you to control your own character, though some like Mass Effect and Dragon Age 2 still have you playing a pre-defined character you create the appearance of.

JRPG's are still to catch up to doing that, if they ever will.

[Lancer-1289]

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 28 avril 2011 - 07:59 .

[Ahglock]

Phaedon wrote...

Ahglock wrote...
For pure RPGs I think character skill determining results over player skill is key.  Because once it is player skill you are no longer taking on the "role" of someone else.  Hybrids like Mass Effect don't need to follow this, and will hopefully have stong RPG components in other areas.  

Correct me if I am wrong, but:

• JRPGs: Taking control of another character
• WRPGs: You are the character.

Statistical progression was necessary because you couldn't assume direct control of your character in pure RPGs.
Since ME2 is also a TPS, you can take partial control over your character's combat as well.

Therefore, ME2 is a very good WRPG?

I can't think of many Bioware games where you are the character.  You are always taking control of another character.  Changing the first name isn;t much.  You are Hawk in DA2, you have the same background no matter what, and basically are the same guy historically speaking.  You change a bit once you take control though.  And they are defined by some as WRPG.  But maybe I am not understanding your point.  

Mass effect is also a TPS, so you take control in combat which is where the TPS elements are not the RPG elements.  That is why it is a hybrid, which is exactly what Bioware was going for, they wanted a shooter/RPG, they were not trying to make a pure RPG.  I wont comment on whether or not it is a good with its TPS elements since it is the only one I have played.  Its RPG elements were strong in some areas weak in others.  Not much in the way of character building but good diologue design for example.  

Overall as my 300 hours attest to it is a good game.  If you are looking for pure shooter or pure RPG you would probably be disapointed.  

[CroGamer002]

Did I ever said that I hate stereotypical terms of WRPG's and JRPG's?

[Rurik_Niall]

Honestly a "pure" RPG is impossible, it would consist purely of role playing which truth be told would make for a pretty dull game without any other gameplay involved.

[lolwut666]

I like to think that BioWare emploee's have realized how stupid the fanbase is so they just ignore all the trolls and nay-sayers somplaining about the game and do things their own way.

Unfortunately, that's only partially true at best.

[Ahglock]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Honestly a "pure" RPG is impossible, it would consist purely of role playing which truth be told would make for a pretty dull game without any other gameplay involved.

Would you prefer I said pure CRPG.  I am not advocating people LARP or play Amber diceless or something both of which give you cooties.  

[Ahglock]

lolwut666 wrote...

I like to think that BioWare emploee's have realized how stupid the fanbase is so they just ignore all the trolls and nay-sayers somplaining about the game and do things their own way.

Unfortunately, that's only partially true at best.

Dude, last interview basically said we pay attention to stupid fans.  People who preferred ME1 hope their brand of stupid is being heard this time instead of what got us ME2.  

[Rurik_Niall]

Ahglock wrote...

Would you prefer I said pure CRPG.  I am not advocating people LARP or play Amber diceless or something both of which give you cooties.  

Hell, even LARPing is more fun than just sitting down and role playing with no other gameplay. At least you get to dress up in silly costumes and hit people with NERF swords.

Modifié par Rurik_Niall, 28 avril 2011 - 07:58 .

[theSteeeeels]

lolwut666 wrote...

I like to think that BioWare emploee's have realized how stupid the fanbase is so they just ignore all the trolls and nay-sayers somplaining about the game and do things their own way.

Unfortunately, that's only partially true at best.

yea good point

lets never call out the developers on what they messed up, instead lets have all our posts be "your games are 100% awesome" like a good boy