33 réponses à ce sujet

[Skywalkley]

For an Archery based character is it better to go with a Rouge or a Warrior? I first thought rouge would be the natural choice but then at looking at starting stats it looked like warriors may be better. Then again maybe it doesnt really matter. Any thoughts?

[hexaligned]

? Warriors have access to all of the archery skills, Dalish wars even start with some.

[TheGreenLion]

Well without skills my warrior with a crappy bow and 42ish strength pulls 35ish damage per shot, I'd say it's viable but you'd have to trade yer Con. fer Dex. but now I'm being obvious, lol.

[AtomZero]

crossbows seem to be more for Warrior archers (since the strength req.).. and bows for Rogue archers with the dex. requirements..



personally, I like being a rogue archer, because i put a lot of points in cunning since I like stealing and lock-picking too.. and then i get the "lethality" skill, which makes my cunning replace strength when it comes to determining damage... so.. lots of points in dex&cunning.. a few in strength (at least 20 strength for drakescale armor..) and some in constitution... and the lethality skill.. i think makes a better archer... than a warrior archer.

[TheGreenLion]

Crossbows in my understanding only have a strength requirement, but no bonus to the actual damage of the item from strength...Leliana has Marjolane's Recurve and I do more damage with a Whitewood bow or some such...but I'm a 2H warrior and without the skills, never thought to go archer spec with him. I do think perhaps rogues make the better archer, also being able to sneak attack.

[FlintlockJazz]

Bows gain a benefit from both strength and dex for damage, crossbows only get dex so I'd say warriors get more from bows than they would for crossbows, while rogues can get the same if they use lethality to replace strength with cunning, so really I can't see a point in crossbows except as a stopgap weapon for rogues until they get lethality.



Using ranged weapons will mean you will not get backstabs either, you only get them in melee. The strength bonus is only to damage, you will get more of a accuracy bonus from dex so you will probably want to pump that up more, though a high strength will allow you to wear better armour, and since one of the advantages of archery is that you can take skill that removes alot of the penalties associated with using a bow in heavy armour it is something to consider.



Rogues and Warriors both get the same archery skills, it's the non-archery skills that will most determine your choice. Warrior archers will probably be more heavily armoured, while Rogues will wear lighter but as a result be able to focus more on their dex. If you want to go for a mix of dual wielding and archery then I reckon Warrior will work out the best by the way, but don't quote me on that.



In summary, it's not the actual archery skills that determine the choice but rather the other skills you wil be wanting to take with them that could influence your decision.

[Zweijsters]

Rouge archers.. I'm still waiting for the funnies.

[TheGreenLion]

Don't you know of the Rouge Archers? They are more infamous than the Crimson Oars...almost as infamous as the Ash Warriors, just a bit....rosier is all. I encountered one in my travels through Ferelden and I was smitten at the sight of her! She said her name was Leliana, and we made sweet love by campfire light. *Sigh* what a woman...



And when I woke up, my coin-purse was missing as was she. Wench.

[Ultrazennn]

Rogues make much better archer characters in my opinion, there are few reasons for this.

1.  Being able to restealth after firing off a big crit and pulling agro, also distraction for the same reason if you go bard spec (which is an awesome combo for an archer).

2.  Innately higher dex, which is needed to equip some of the better bows.  In my playthroughs, bows have always ended up being a better choice due to attack animation speeds.  Xbows *feel* very slow, and archery is already pretty gimped in that department.  If you're building a real archer character, you can stop your str at 20 or 22 and be fine.

3.  Great combo character is training up 2 of the archer trees, and 2 of the rogue trees.  Sad as it is, there are many times in the game where standing behind something with 2 melee weapons will about triple your DPS over any bow build you can make.

/shrug.  I find the rogue class secondary skills/specs to end up being more useful, but that's just my playstyle.  Both classes have access to all the abilities in the archer branch, so from that standpoint they are both equal.  I just like what a side spec of rogue brings to the table.  Not having a good way to clear agro after things like scattering shot, is pretty much a death sentance, as you'll have every mob in the encounter agro on you after you use it.  Once you get into the 2nd half of the game, and places like deep roads where 15+ enemies at a time is common, it's pretty important.

Making a rogue/archer hybrid, with a bard spec is a really fun character.  Because you don't need to dump many points into STR, you can spend points on cunning, and end up with a main character that has great speach skills, as well as stealing (fun) or picking locks (useless in my opinion).  Also with a stealth build, you can have some fun with traps as an ambush setup.

1.  Stealth and put out traps.

2.  Use arrow of slaying from stealth on toughest mob.

3.  Use scatter shot.

4.  Restealth.

Fun stuff  

My most recent playthrough is a three archer party.  Llaina and I speced very similar and Alistar as a hybrid archer/shield tank.   Really fun party if not the easy mode way to play the game.

[dannythefool]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Bows gain a benefit from both strength and dex for damage, crossbows only get dex so I'd say warriors get more from bows than they would for crossbows, while rogues can get the same if they use lethality to replace strength with cunning, so really I can't see a point in crossbows except as a stopgap weapon for rogues until they get lethality.

Rogues before lethality may not even be able to equip crossbows because they have strength requirements. I actually thought they got their damage from strength too, but the strength tooltip says otherwise... anyway, there aren't any really good crossbows out there and they're slower than bows, so I don't really see any point in them at all either.

Rogues and Warriors both get the same archery skills, it's the non-archery skills that will most determine your choice.  

Both classes kind of lose out on their class-specific skills if they go ranged. Rogues even more so than warriors. For some reason, my ranged rogue still kicks ass even though most of the rogue skills as well as the specialisations don't really offer much for ranged combat. Ranger gets you a meatshield, duelist and assassin get you one or two skills that also help with ranged combat but help much more with melee... and the one killer skill in the bard line is one where you have to be close to the enemies and then can't fight at all while you're using it.

With all of this said, I prefer the dodging skills that rogues can get. Getting lethality and evasion is pretty much a given, and I think the duelist line has something as well.

Warrior archers will probably be more heavily armoured, while Rogues will wear lighter but as a result be able to focus more on their dex. If you want to go for a mix of dual wielding and archery then I reckon Warrior will work out the best by the way, but don't quote me on that.

If you wan to go for a mix, you should reconsider. You can't really be good at both. You have to sink too many points into archery to get to the good talents. Basically, you want all three tier 4 talents (master archer, arrow of slaying and scattershot) so you have 16 points tied up right there. You'd still be somewhat okay-ish in melee but you won't master it.

In summary, it's not the actual archery skills that determine the choice but rather the other skills you wil be wanting to take with them that could influence your decision.

Another advantage that a rogue pc has over a warrior for ranged combat is that you don't have to bring one of the other rogues if you want to pick locks, disarm traps and steal. 

In summary I'd lean toward rogues for archery, maybe not because of the damage they deal though. I'm rather happy with the "Greatest damage dealt: 558" that my archer's accomplishments screen says (it hasn't updated here yet), but I'm also happy with the "Money spent: 421 sov 24 silver 70 copper" knowing that I still have over 300 sovereigns in my purse.

[Sword For Hire]

unless rogue specializations give great benefits for ranged attacks....

I know the ranger specialization exists and to be quite honest, i haven't looked at any of them



but if they can't help then its hands down warrior archer

[dannythefool]

Sword For Hire wrote...

unless rogue specializations give great benefits for ranged attacks....
I know the ranger specialization exists and to be quite honest, i haven't looked at any of them

Ranger doesn't do anything for your ranged attacks, you only get to summon animals. Duelist and Assassin both help with ranged attacks, just not as much as with melee attacks. And some of the killer talents only work for melee as well, like the automatic backstab thing. But that's kind of the same for warriors.

[Varenus Luckmann]

I'd say Warrior, simply because almost none of the rogue talents or specializations particulary help with archery, wheras the warriors simply end up with more utility.

[Pyradius]

More utility? I keep the mana song on all the time (I only went into the 1st ability in Bard), I keep a spider pet out all the time, I can pick virtually any lock, can set traps and pull enemies into them via stealth to start off a fight to my advantage. Of course because so much now benefits from cunning in my build, my stats are split almost evenly between Dex/Wil/Cun in order to also keep Suppression Fire/Rapid Shot running all the time also, which I find makes for a great auto-shot DPS build along with all the other contributions. I fail to see how a Warrior Archer can even come close to this utility...

[Pyradius]

Oh, and I can stun and run (Dirty Tricks + Below the Belt) to quickly stun/debuff an enemy and get to range, without ever swapping to a melee weapon...

[Svancara]

It's rogue damnit, not rouge..aargh WoW flashbacks >.<

[Forsakerr]

i did nt know you could create red people ...

[metatrans]

Warrior archers probably end up doing more overall damage because they are able to focus more narrowly on boosting just strength and dex (both stats affect Bow damage).a warrior archer will also have enough talent points to easily develop a melee style for backup if desired. Warriors also have innately higher health and stamina (slightly, about 1 more point per level).



Rogue archers bring the rogue utility package though. all those cunning based skills provide alot of interesting out of combat options and are particularly useful from an economic perspective. the need to develop cunning however detracts from maximum possible strength/dex. on the other hand a rogue can get some very nice archery results by abusing Combat Stealth. every shot fired from stealth is an automatic crit. Stealthing also sheds all aggro so its much safer to use Scatter Shot as a rogue.

[Pyradius]

Lethality from what I can tell essentially swaps STR and CUN, thereby eliminating the Warrior DMG advantage, and certainly does nothing to add Utility to the Warrior, whereas Cunning can be used now for damage and utility both.

[Pyradius]

And lastly just to drive the point home - A Ranger/Rogue Archer is able to provide additional DPS simultaneously via a bad-ass pet. What other skill tree is a warrior going to pick up that would contribute essentially another tank/dps to the mix? Most of their other talents are going to focus around being a melee class, which is useless while trying to play archer. I'd say that even if the Warrior had a slight dps edge alone, the addition of a Pet (which only the Rogue has access to) eliminates this entirely.



I suppose if one wants to be a Archer/Tank Hybrid then yes Warrior is the way to go. But for a pure archer build, I can't find a single advantage for the Warrior. Did I mention that Cunning also makes your char ideal for Master Persuasion? If you want to control the games possible outcomes it seems like the Rogue choice is a no-brainer

[MprezdNZ]

rogue for me. using stealth and lethality. pumping dex and cun. more utility (can pick locks etc as well if you need him to - giving you no need for another rogue) plus ranger gives you another pet, plus bard gives party benefits. It is a no contest as far as I am concerned.

[Erakleitos]

metatrans wrote...

Warrior archers probably end up doing more overall damage because they are able to focus more narrowly on boosting just strength and dex (both stats affect Bow damage).a warrior archer will also have enough talent points to easily develop a melee style for backup if desired. Warriors also have innately higher health and stamina (slightly, about 1 more point per level).

...also warriors get +0.4 damage per level while rogues get +0.2 per level. They start with 60 attack, rogues with 55... They get less fatigue from armors due to the "powerful" talent... They can pull and disengage (same as pulling and stealth) well it's hard to tell which one is better. Surely rogues got more survivability, but warriors do more damage.

edit: but a rogue can take the ranger spec to enhance damage and get some utility (spider web)... also when you summon a spider/wolf/bear, if you set your pet tactics you can also access overwhelm.

Modifié par Erakleitos, 15 janvier 2010 - 01:29 .

[Sarevok Anchev]

Rogue: Stealth = Warrior: Disengage

Rogue: Dirty Tricks = Warrior: Warcry (i think a Mass Knockdown/Debuff is better then 1 Stun)



Rogue: more talents and skillpoints for several tactics and approaches + summons

Warrior: More passive damage, higher HP/Stamina, more Crowd-Control by Specs.

[jsachun]

Warriors are more accurate than rogues, if you're happy to sacrafice a small portion of your stamina to have precise striking on. I tend to score 90%to100% hits with Warriors & 80%to90% with rogues.