183 réponses à ce sujet

[88mphSlayer]

xkg wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

[Images]

All great games with aweful graphics. Each game here is 100000x better than alot of games our days.

I can't disagree with that.
All i want to say is that it is possible to make a game with good graphics and good story.

Planescape Torment/Baldur's Gate did not have awful graphics when they came out...

anyways i don't mind style over realism in any game really, Zelda anybody? Wind Waker has aged so much better than Twilight Princess which looks like dog poo now, so naturally the next Zelda will have cartoony graphics again, but apparently there's a segment of Zelda fans who want Zelda to look like Demon's Souls or something

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 28 avril 2011 - 08:53 .

[RagingVortex]

I've played DA:O and DA:II several times both on my 360. the controlls for DAO were a lot better and more fun. DA2 was supposed to be more for consoles. it was just lame. Bioware PLEASE don't "dumb" down anymore game for consoles

[fchopin]

A vote for realistic graphics.

[Jerrybnsn]

What's with this whole "brown" attribute being labled on Origins? I've only been here for a couple of months, but I have seen it stated a couple of times. Are you saying that Origins has continous brown hue about it? I play on a PS3/HDTV and I don't see that. Can you post some pictures to show this?

[ProneToGlory]

Mecher3k wrote...

axl99 wrote...

Mecher3k, you mean cluttered. There are many things far more cluttered in DA:O than in DA2. That I'd agree with.

Besides. Why on earth would you want to argue with THIS face?

Maybe because that is not the actual model used ingame?

Derp.

This would have been great for darkspawn, but they look liked they yanked the darkspawn graphics right out of borderlands

[Scimal]

Vicious wrote...

Uhh, you guys realize that the art style changed because DA:O's graphics were critically panned. So to increase the 'longevity' of this engine they spent some 5 years on, and to downplay the whole graphics bit, they made everything highly stylized and unrealistic looking.

Both the engine and style were panned. The engine they're using for DA is pretty mediocre, but they went further in DA:O by not adding style. At all. Ever.

Elves: Humans with pointed ears.
Qunari: Bigger, dark-skinned humans.
Dwarves: Short, squat humans.

In DA2, Dwarves still look like short, squat humans... but now the other two races have identities outside of "Humans with X and Y."

Most of the locations were completely bland and uninspiring, too. Yeah, I realize Fereldan isn't Orlais... but the Brecilian Forest all looks the same, the Deep Roads got old after about 5 minutes, even the Mage Tower became an endless assault on tiered dormitories. Lothering was completely outshined by the road you came in on, and Denerim might have been the capital - but that doesn't keep it from having an extremely small merchant square with wood and tattered wool awnings!

Heck, you almost have to focus on the characters more simply because almost nothing around you makes you go, "Dang, that's pretty cool!"

They did the EXACT same thing to TOR. Purposefully made it cartoony, that way it's graphics will never need updating, because it's the 'style' they chose. [to be fair Warcraft did it too and it worked]

For DA2, it's a cheap cop out to get mileage out of a graphically weak engine.

Tell me i'm not the only one who realizes this.

That they chose style over updating their engine? Nope, you're not.

I don't think it's a copout, though. Every franchise needs to be identifiable instantly from screenshots, less they fall into the whole, "What was that game again? Ah, who cares" syndrome.

Outside of the most notable characters, it's pretty difficult to distinguish DA:O from other fantasy games.

Just look:



What is that? An MMO? A SPRPG? Bland architecture, bland mob, and mediocre character front and center. Could you identify where this is without looking at the minimap? Ostagar? Brecilian forest? A random encounter? Could you go, "Oh yeah, that's the Korcari Wilds!" without cheating? I doubt it.



Is that LotR:Online? Generic fantasy MMO #4? Darkkensang? Heck, I thought this was actually Awakenings until I saw the minimap pegging it as Ostagar!

Now take a look at the following screenshots and tell me what game they're from:



WoW! Yup, Instantly recognizable, right?



FO3! Dead giveaway, right?



ME2! Right again!



I'm not saying DA is to the point where I go, "Oh yeah, that's easily identifiable as Dragon Age." However, it's getting better.



Obviously both are "elves" - both have pointed ears and tattoos!

However, Merrill from DA:O looks pretty much human. Almost as-if she were a half-breed.

Merrill from DA2 doesn't leave that doubt.

I like the direction DA2's graphics are going. They're more inspired, and most have more care behind them. In fact, I want more of it from BioWare! I want to see Dragon Age make its stamp so that I can go, "This is so Dragon Age!" in a similar vein as, "This is so Baldur's Gate II!" and "This is so World of Warcraft!"

Of course, the Lore may have to change to fit what's going on. Generally, the more profuse and powerful magic is in a setting, the more distinct the visuals can get. However, it's not completely necessary. A focus on architecture, on armor designs and better environments could pull off some of what I'd like to see. Separating the races further was a good start, now finish it.

Modifié par Scimal, 28 avril 2011 - 10:11 .

[Melca36]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Lowtez Draken:



Nuff said.

Thats  going to be one of the new love interests in DA:3    :innocent:

[ejoslin]

Scimal wrote... and simfamSP quoted...
A lot of things with pictures trying to illustrate a point...

Looking at those screenshots, I recognized all of them, but because I had played all but ME2 and recognized the user interfaces. If you gave me nothing but a closeup of a face for FO3 of a not known character, I would have not known what gave it was either.

It's the UIs that make them distinctive. And yes, DAO was just as recognizable as any of the others.

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 avril 2011 - 10:51 .

[Fishy]

SInce when  17 month ago = nostalgia .That considering you purchased DA:O at release .. Are you 34 month old?
Bouge de la

[Sylvianus]

comparisons of some people do not hold water, you differentiate graphics of a game released in 2007, without being assured some success, with another released in 2011, which would normally crush the first game in this area, which is not obvious at all.

The question is simple, do you want graphics like DAO, or DA2, assume that in both cases, the work is conducted properly.

No in 2014, the realistic style will not resemble that of dao in 2007.

Me personally, I see no future for the DA's universe with the cartoon style.

And for the faces, just look at the hair of the characters in DA2, to realize that they are weird. There is no real locks in, we saw no lines. Something fuzzy. The faces have no relief and they are smooth.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 avril 2011 - 11:39 .

[Sylvianus]

It's not fuzzy? The hair is not weird?






where is the relief on this smooth face?





We see the difference here. Relief, more accurate, more beautiful, and immersive.

[Brockololly]

Sylvianus wrote...





where is the relief on this smooth face?





We see the difference here. Relief, more accurate, more beautiful, and immersive.

Yeah, thats one of the issues with DA2 faces- they're overly smoothed over to the point of looking like rubbery dolls or people that have had too much Botox. They're lacking in the sort of texture and detail that the Origins faces had.


Really, you look at something like the Zbrush darkspawn image and I maintain that DA2 didn't necessarily need a drastic change in artstyle, maybe some tweaking which would come with moving out of Ferelden and into a new country, but that the look needed to improve on a mostly technical graphics level.

And hell, if BioWare wants to appeal to the Call of Duty mainstream market, the easiest way to do that is with nice, detailed graphics that catch your eye and cause you to do a double take. Back before I played RPGs, the reason I took notice of BioWare and Baldur's Gate 2 was because I saw some screenshots of BG2 and was amazed at the backgrounds and environments. Truly, having a game look visually stunning is an easy way to get people in the door.

[Tommy6860]

Sylvianus wrote...




It's not fuzzy? The hair is not weird?






where is the relief on this smooth face?





We see the difference here. Relief, more accurate, more beautiful, and immersive.

Yep, and I definitely prefer the more realisitc look with the relief features that we actualy see in real life. I disagree with Scimal in that the elves look more like elves when I all I see is Na'vi, there's nothing original about the look. And what is the determining factor in how elves should look anyhow? All of the characters have some human qualitative looks to them, despite the different races.. Not only that, the hair models in DA2 (look at the Merrills) all have the Mass Effect ugly paint brush strokes. What's up with that that kind of style and originality? At least in Origins, even the hair had textures and some style belonging to each character, making them feel more their own.

[Tommy6860]

88mphSlayer wrote...

xkg wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

[Images]

All great games with aweful graphics. Each game here is 100000x better than alot of games our days.

I can't disagree with that.
All i want to say is that it is possible to make a game with good graphics and good story.

Planescape Torment/Baldur's Gate did not have awful graphics when they came out...

anyways i don't mind style over realism in any game really, Zelda anybody? Wind Waker has aged so much better than Twilight Princess which looks like dog poo now, so naturally the next Zelda will have cartoony graphics again, but apparently there's a segment of Zelda fans who want Zelda to look like Demon's Souls or something

Yep, graphics appreciation is more relevant to how it looked at their respective times, the first two games you mentioned looked awesome for the hardware capabilities of 12 years ago.. Your Zelda example is a good one. I don't know if anyone remembers the game Jet Set Radio Future, which is cel-shaded animation. It was really cool and fit the style of that game. But if I were to think of it with today's graphics capabilities, it just doesn't fit for me. There's definitely something to be said about individual game style and art, even if it is carried over from one gen to the next.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 29 avril 2011 - 12:19 .

[Scimal]

Sylvianus wrote...




We see the difference here. Relief, more accurate, more beautiful, and immersive.

Or he looks like this:



Yeah, not blurry or plastic-y at all. :innocent:

Of course everybody is going to look good when the renderer hits its stride with the right texture pack, but Alistair doesn't look that good 95% of the time unless you had a super-powered computer able to run better textures at a decent framerate - which is all of <8% of the market.

That's why BW decided to go for style.

Modifié par Scimal, 29 avril 2011 - 01:05 .

[TEWR]

Elves do not look like Na'vi. I just don't see it.

[Whisky]

Scimal wrote...
Or he looks like this:



Yeah, not blurry or plastic-y at all. :innocent:

Of course everybody is going to look good when the renderer hits its stride with the right texture pack, but Alistair doesn't look that good 95% of the time unless you had a super-powered computer able to run better textures at a decent framerate - which is all of <8% of the market.

That's why BW decided to go for style.

That's still better than DA2 style.

And you don't need a super powered computer to run better texture. Switching from low resolution textures to higher res texture only need a little bit more graphics memory.

Consoles would still be able to handle that, so everyone wins.

Modifié par Whisky, 29 avril 2011 - 01:43 .

[Romantiq]

Still looks a lot better than overly smoothed cartoonish DA2 faces.

[Tommy6860]

Scimal wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...




We see the difference here. Relief, more accurate, more beautiful, and immersive.

Or he looks like this:



Yeah, not blurry or plastic-y at all. :innocent:

Of course everybody is going to look good when the renderer hits its stride with the right texture pack, but Alistair doesn't look that good 95% of the time unless you had a super-powered computer able to run better textures at a decent framerate - which is all of <8% of the market.

That's why BW decided to go for style.

But then style is completely subjective to one's taste, isn't it? Origin's style fits more the lore of the game as a whole for me, so it was fitting. I just don't think saying that elves (your words) having more human qualities in Origins just somehow doesn't make them elfish. What is the determining factor of the looks when all of the companion races have humanoid qualities. They change the eye and nose bridge structures, yet that somehow denotes more realism. if you like it, that's good, but it doesn't make it more realisitic for the race feature when there is not true definition to the lore looks of elves other than the differences in the ears.

[Scimal]

Whisky wrote...
That's still better than DA2 style.

And you don't need a super powered computer to run better texture. Switching from low resolution textures to higher res texture only need a little bit more graphics memory.

Consoles would still be able to handle that, so everyone wins.

If you say. It is opinion, but I do enjoy the new style.

Heck, I was also a big fan of the Na'vi, so there's also that (and the Asari - maybe it's just blue alien babes).

DA definitely needed some style, though. It was run by a mediocre engine with generic graphics in a painfully generic setting. DA:O doesn't stand out at all beyond "Written by BW and it has lots of blood." As Yahtzee helpfully pointed out, BioWare's writing no longer gets brownie points - so it's the game "with lots of blood (splatter)".

At least DA2 has "those funky elves in that one city with that combat."

Keep it up BW. Realistic may be great for gritty shooters, but I want my fantasy settings to be a bit more... fantastical.

[Whisky]

@Scimal: A unique art style is good, but are you sure that DA2 looks beautiful?

If you say you like the art style of DA2 and want Bioware to improve it, I can't argue with you there since you and I have different taste. But if you really think DA2 is beautiful enough, then...

Modifié par Whisky, 29 avril 2011 - 02:20 .

[Alozaps]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Lowtez Draken:



Nuff said.

My God, that looks fantastic.  I don't think I've ever seen a character in DAO rendered at such a wonderful resolution.

/end sarcasm

That looks pitiful.  They couldn't have even bothered to make the Kirkwall citizen presets look nice?

Modifié par Alozaps, 29 avril 2011 - 02:38 .

[Scimal]

Whisky wrote...

@Scimal: A unique art style is good, but are you sure that DA2 looks beautiful?

It looks good, but I wouldn't call it beautiful. It's better than DA:O, but it still lacks an identity.

[tmp7704]

axl99 wrote...

The zbrush models for DA2 for instance are fairly realistic, moreso than the ones in Origins. Just take a look at the high res images in the Pixologic interview. Something obviously got lost in translation in the final models. A damn shame.

That can be said about the high-res assets for both games. They have interview for DAO there, too.

Regarding DA2 style... thought the environments were nice. But there's so very few of them it gets rather tedious pretty quick.