144 réponses à ce sujet

[Britic]

I've been going through many of the DA2 forums, and in them I have seen complaints that DA2 lacked a true villain. To which I say you are wrong: ...Grand Cleric Elthina.

I am sensing through your computers that you might be pulling away, but hear me out:

Her gross dereliction of duty:

Now I'm not refering to her refusal to take sides in the mage-templar conflict, but rather her actions, or lack thereof, against Meredith. Despite Meredith's repeated violation of Chantry law, in regards to the use of the Rite of Tranquility at least, Elthina thinks that any action on her part would violate her duties. Rather than contact the Divine and request for Meredith to replaced by a new Knight-Commander, Elthina seems to be content with making herself a cup of tea and watching the ensuring chaos.

Thoughts?

[Stippling]

She cannot really control what the Mages do, All she can do is keep the status quo, and maybe she wasn't cool with that. I need to play that section again, but I remember her mentioning she's not in direct control of the Templars. I don't think she can be at fault. She died with the beginning of the revolution.

[Dante Angelo]

Wrong the true villains of DA2 are the Orliesians

[Louis deGuerre]

I thought this thread would be about Sandal.

[Britic]

I thought that one of the Templar's duties was to protect the chantry, and that they were in fact controlled by the Chantry due to their stranglehold on the supply of lyrium.

[Herr Uhl]

Would this make Neville Chamberlain the true villain of another sequel?

[Britic]

Louis deGuerre wrote...

I thought this thread would be about Sandal.

You fool do not speak the name of our master so lightly, do you want to be on the recving end of his shiny enchantment?

[Britic]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Would this make Neville Chamberlain the true villain of another sequel?

Dammit, now I have a WW2 shooter in my head entitled "Call of Honor: The Chamberlain Cometh"

[JPadinhaT]

Wait... You're not trolling? Okay then... Well I don't really believe that, I think she was like Orsino's and Meredith's mother just keeping her kids from fighting, but she couldn't take sides.

[Abispa]

I think Elthina was your typical moderate, trying to keep everyone happy and pleasing no one, but I don't find her to be a villain. I found her concern over a possible mage war against the Templars to be a valid one, as was her fear that the Divine might order an Exalted March against Kirkwall. I mean, hell, the Divine declared war on nugs, for crying out loud.

Considering that the Chantry supposedly forbids mages from holding any titles and noble status, I can only assume that Elthina was the reason that Meredith didn't come down on mage Hawke sooner since no other excuse remains consistent with Meredith's character. Even Cullen would have to agree to bring Hawke into the Circle unless the Grand Cleric had told the Templars to leave him/her alone. Of course, I've never heard it stated explicitly, so it could just be my wishful thinking to help cover-up another plot hole Bioware made in the mage storyline.

[llandwynwyn]

It was obviously Kirkwall itself.

[Abispa]

The true villain is Lady Elegant. None of my Hawkes could hit on her.

[Britic]

Personally I felt that Meredith's status as the lead Villain was a plot hole all on its own. To me it was kind of like a Supreme Court judge seizing control of the US, highly unlikely and prevented by a series of checks and balances.

[JPadinhaT]

llandwynwyn wrote...

It was obviously Kirkwall itself.

You mean the entire corruption of the city? How all of its citizens had their own selfish reasons and how they were willing to kill people for their goals. Or do you think it was the family members of all the people Hawke killed? Cause by my count that is indeed the entire city.

[ejoslin]

Actually, I have to agree a bit that Elthina allowed a situation to get out of hand. Tranquilizing mages who have been through their harrowing IS against chantry law, and Elthina should have at least appealed to the divine about it. Meredith allowing it to happen or actually encouraging it, either way, should have been taken out of power.

But then you wouldn't have had the final conflict. So that would be bad.

[Sussurus]

Elthina really did need to step up.
Given that you have the captain of the guards as a constant companion
Are one of the richest most powerful nobles in Kirkwall.
Gain the champion tittle by responding to threats you warned about over two chapters.
Have Sebastian along at every "so obvious even he can tell what's going on" moment.
Have slain and defended countless apostates / bloodmages and templars.

Her part of the game was pretty much.
There's a bomb here my abomination chum planted it.... Weeks later Boooooom... MAKER Noooooo.

DA:3 she'll probably land in Orlais and become the latest aspect of Flemith.

[Aradace]

Britic wrote...

I've been going through many of the DA2 forums, and in them I have seen complaints that DA2 lacked a true villain. To which I say you are wrong: ...Grand Cleric Elthina.

.

Thoughts?

Well, seeing as how Anders blew her and the sodding Chantry to kingdom come, I believe that even if she were, she's not a villian anymore.  She is dead, deceased.  She is an Ex-Cleric.

Unless, BW wants to play the bulls**t card again and say "The Maker Resurrected Her" or some other religious garbage like Leliana.  Which at this point, I wouldnt put past them *facepalm*

Modifié par Aradace, 27 avril 2011 - 10:54 .

[JPadinhaT]

Abispa wrote...

The true villain is Lady Elegant. None of my Hawkes could hit on her.

I know right? Every time with my Male Hawke it sounded like she was insinuating that they had spent some time under the sheets.

[Britic]

[/quote]

Well, seeing as how Anders blew her and the sodding Chantry to kingdom come, I believe that even if she were, she's not a villian anymore.  She is dead, deceased.  She is an Ex-Cleric.

Unless, BW wants to play the bulls**t card again and say "The Maker Resurrected Her" or some other religious garbage like Leliana.  Which at this point, I wouldnt put past them *facepalm*

[/quote]

I dunno, in DAO it was demonstrated that the followers of the Maker, specifically the Guardian's immortality, have some sort of potent power. But yeah she died as nearly every villian does, she has gone to meet her maker.

I apologize for that last sentance.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Judging from Elthina's reactions to Hawke asking her to step in, it sounds like her ability to control Meredith and the rest of the Templars was very limited, and I guess she wanted to try to save that for more important moments. Even if she legitimately wasn't interested in stopping the chaos though, that doesn't make her the main villain of the game.

[Rifneno]

Britic wrote...

I've been going through many of the DA2 forums, and in them I have seen complaints that DA2 lacked a true villain. To which I say you are wrong: ...Grand Cleric Elthina.

I am sensing through your computers that you might be pulling away, but hear me out:

Her gross dereliction of duty:

Now I'm not refering to her refusal to take sides in the mage-templar conflict, but rather her actions, or lack thereof, against Meredith. Despite Meredith's repeated violation of Chantry law, in regards to the use of the Rite of Tranquility at least, Elthina thinks that any action on her part would violate her duties. Rather than contact the Divine and request for Meredith to replaced by a new Knight-Commander, Elthina seems to be content with making herself a cup of tea and watching the ensuring chaos.

Thoughts?

I completely agree.  There is no excuse for Elthina's inaction.

JPadinhaT wrote...

Wait... You're not trolling? Okay then... Well I don't really believe that, I think she was like Orsino's and Meredith's mother just keeping her kids from fighting, but she couldn't take sides.

In order for that analogy to work, said children would have to be fighting with miniguns in the middle of Times Square.

Abispa wrote...

Considering that the Chantry supposedly forbids mages from holding any titles and noble status, I can only assume that Elthina was the reason that Meredith didn't come down on mage Hawke sooner since no other excuse remains consistent with Meredith's character. Even Cullen would have to agree to bring Hawke into the Circle unless the Grand Cleric had told the Templars to leave him/her alone. Of course, I've never heard it stated explicitly, so it could just be my wishful thinking to help cover-up another plot hole Bioware made in the mage storyline.

The constant handwaving if Hawke is a mage is all over the place.  Cullen says "mages aren't people like you and I!" shortly after witnessing Hawke lay waste with blood magic.  It's a gameplay thing, not Elthina.

JPadinhaT wrote...

Abispa wrote...

The true villain is Lady Elegant. None of my Hawkes could hit on her.

I know right? Every time with my Male Hawke it sounded like she was insinuating that they had spent some time under the sheets.

....  Note to self:  Play male Hawke next.

[TJPags]

Since when is requesting the RoA illegal under Chantry Law?

[Britic]

TJPags wrote...

Since when is requesting the RoA illegal under Chantry Law?

I was refering to her use of the rite of tranquillity on mages who have passed their harrowing, the rite of annulment was never disscussed.

[TJPags]

Britic wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Since when is requesting the RoA illegal under Chantry Law?

I was refering to her use of the rite of tranquillity on mages who have passed their harrowing, the rite of annulment was never disscussed.

Ah, apologies - read your post wrong.

As to the Tranquil thing, it was suggested and rejected - rejected by Meredith.  She may have been guilty of not controlling her Templars, but wouldn't that make her as cuplable as Elthina?

[Sussurus]

Meredith calls for it in chapter three before the boom.
The templar that captures Grace if you force them back into the circle can be clicked on in the gallows.
He then mentions Meredith called for the RoA, and a journal entry pops up on it.

However I thought the RoA required chantry authority.
A templar can't just order it carried out, a grand cleric must.. that may be why Elthena had to get blown up gameplay wise.
For with her death Meredith can just scream it's the right thing to do with no authority available?

Modifié par Sussurus, 27 avril 2011 - 11:28 .