37 réponses à ce sujet

[uberdowzen]

P1-7, Agreed.

P8, have to be honest, I didn't really enjoy that fight. I was fine with how difficult it was but it was too long and I was put off balance by how much more difficult it was.

C1, Agreed. While this doesn't ruin the game like I know it does for some people I still find it really irritating.

C2, Agreed, although DAO wasn't exactly the most optimised game ever either. I'll be interested to see how it runs on the DX11 laptop I'm getting at the end of the year.

C3, Half agree. I thought the plot had some issues but overall I enjoyed it. Sadly the plot lost it from the-moment-with-Orsino-which-we-will-not-mention or TMWOWWWNM as it should from now on be known.

C4, Agree but in a different way. I'm fine with how quests were handled, but there was far too much combat. In Act 3 I often found myself saying "Another quest resolved through combat? Again!?".

C5, Disagree. From a game design perspective DA2 is (in my opinion) really good, although I'm not one of those people who likes complexity for complexities sake.

C6, Disagree with reservations. When I explain what I thought of DA2's combat to people I split it up into 2 parts, rules and encounters. The former is utterly brilliant. DAO's combat was near perfect and yet they managed to improve on it. I really like the combat system.

The encounters however are terrible. DAO's battles felt thought out and crafted; DA2's felt like they'd scattered 10 or so enemies around an area and placed some spawn points. And spawning enemies are evil.

C7, Agreed, but like you said, not a game breaker.

C8, Disagree. I do agree with the criticism that DA2's art style doesn't really match with the dark world that is Thedas but I wasn't too bothered by it. Plus I think the game looks great so I'm not going to complain about it too much. At the end of the day, at least it looks unique.

C9, Disagree on customisation, agreed on tactical camera. I prefered the fact that companions had their own distinct look which is the only customisation that I can think of which is gone. I do miss Coercion but I really like the new crafting system so I'm willing to sacrifice the former.

The tactical camera though should be mourned. I miss it so much. Bring it back. I don't care how much harder it makes creating levels, take the extra time and do it.

C10, Disagreed, I really liked the companions. Except for Sebastion. Sebastion's irritating. And admittedly I missed Fenris on my first playthrough so I can't comment on him.

C11, Agree and disagree. I really liked Kirkwall, I think it's one of gaming's best cities. This does bring up the point about how little the game changes over time.

In Act 1, when you're first allowed to freely explore Kirkwall, that was brilliant. Exploring Kirkwall for the first time was one of the greatest experiences I've had in a Bioware game. Really liked that. When Act 2 began though, those feelings weren't rekindled, it was exactly the same city.

I can't help but feel that Bioware weren't 100% behind the framed narrative idea. Imagine if there had been (this is a terrible example) a sapling you plant in the first act. In act 2, the sapling had grown into a small tree. In act 3 it's a big tree. That would have been so cool.

C12, Disagreed, I really didn't mind. I would have happily accepted a retcon to allow the changes to the Qunari and although I'm not completely sold on the appearance of the Darkspawn at least they don't look like generic evil guys like they do in DAO. On mages teleporting, the amazing David Gaider said somewhere that they're not teleporting just moving very fast.

C13, I like the concept of bosses that have multiple stages but I didn't really enjoy many of DA2's boss fights. They just took far too long to take down.

C14, I haven't got any issue with this, unless it was done to save time. If it was that's just lazy. This did bring up a point for me though: has Bioware had a character who is gay yet? They've obviously had bisexual characters but I can't recall any purely gay/lesbian characters. Asari don't count.

C15, I really couldn't care less about achievements. To me, achievements feel like someone saying to you "I bet you can't read this book in under 2 hours."

[DownyTif]

@uberdowzen

wow, nice answer. I appreciate your comments!

P8: indeed, it's really long, like all of the boss fights. And once I understood the fight, it was not even hard, it was just long for nothing. But I liked when the wraith was like exploding in the center, with the area looking all red. It felt powerful, visually too. A long and boring fight was the Arishok. I played a rogue and that fight was really bugged. Like many reported, each time I was using Decoy, the Arishok bugged and was just doing nothing. I tried many reloads with always the same results. So I decided to exploit the game and just kill him without resistance. I mean, I won't loose 2 hours to fight a bugged boss in an attempt to not bug him. But even if he was standing still, it was very long to kill him. And when he was moving, he was dealing so much damages that I had to run around and avoid him and hit him when he was missing. What a strategy! That was the most boring fight I ever played, with or without the bug, and it was longgggg.

C2: Yeah, I had a lot of crashes in DAO. But, I was running at high res with the JDTexture mod, which makes the game look awesome. I did not use the mod in Orzammar and in the Deep Roads because it was too much for my laptop, but anywhere else it was great. DA2 though, it only crashed once, which is nice.

C3: TMWOWWWNM???

C4: yep, really too much combat in this game. Where is the exploration/adventure factor of the term RPG?

C6: Agree, on encounters, this is a major flaw. For the combat system, I'm 50/50 on it if using your definition. I like the chemistry between the classes, but I find it too quick / too "awesome" or flashy and not enough realism to it. 

C9: I'm with you on crafting. I like how it was done in DA2. It's simpler, but effective. It's the same kind of changes they made from ME1 to ME2.

C11: I agree with you on the part where you say that it's interesting to discover Kirkwall in Act 1. It's well done, with some subtilities like you can't access Gamlen's house directly, you need to go through the door in Lowtown. But I don't think it's one of the best gaming city and certainly felt it was extremely static after you saw everything of Kirkwall in Act 1.

C12: Just a comment on mages that move fast... I would like to see the link of that because out of context, this really looks like a dumb explication by him. Something like... "oh right... hum I'll make up something for that error".

C14: Good question for the pure gay character. I don't think so too. On the bisexual thing, I commented in the other replies below my original post.

C15: Achievements for me are not "I'm going to show you my awesome medals" but more "hey, I didn't think about this in my first playthrough". Just like the achievements of ME1 where you must complete the majority of the game with the Liara, or Tali, or Wrex, etc. Obviously, you can only get 2 achievements of that sort in one playthrough so even if the game by itself doesn't need that to motivate you for another playthrough, it suggests you a different way to play that new one. Same thing with "Romanced Alistair" or "Romanced Morrigan", etc. I'm a completionist, not for showing off my talents, but just because I'm like that. So well crafted achievements is always a motivation for me to play a second or more playthroughs with a different mindset, suggested by those achievements that without them, I may have missed.

Thanks again!

[Beerfish]

DownyTif wrote...

C1- Re-used areas...

Agree, I don't think even the staunchest supporters like the reused areas.  There could be a number of reasons why they went this route but they haven't told us why so it remains a con for sure.

C2- The new art may be good,

I played on the X-Box so I can't make an opinion on PC performance.  I'll buy the PC version if they make it toolset compatible.

C3- Like I mentioned, it's nice to have a main story around a character ...

You didn't explain this criticism well enough for me to know what you are talking about your example was from one incident at the very end of the game.  The progress and game's urgency comes from your family and companions not from anything to really benefit the player. 

C4- Quests, apart from the main story, ...

Like any game there is a large volume of fetch it or small easy quests, that is the way they try and slowly advance the character experience wise and power wise.  There were some tremendous quests in the game, some that rank up there with BioWares all time best.  (Aveline romance quest for example)

C5- Streamlined and dumbed-down....

You didn't explain this one at all or give any real good examples of what you mean.

C6- Combat....

This one is really two issues you are talking about combat itself and opponents.  I agree partially on both points.  Combat was sped up a bit too much for me.  It's not bad for some classes but is not good for others (especially the rogue who zooms around so much you can't appreciate their moves. 

Small groups of opponents, combat was not too bad, most people agree with your 'waves of creatures' point.  This to me seems like a lack fo time to game balance problem.  When testing they may have found some encounters too easy or too hard and the answer to make them harder was to just throw more opponents at the player.  This was one of the poorer balanced games for BioWare, a massive gap in difficulty for some opponents.  For the less skilled player things like the High Dragon were not easy, even on the lowest level.

C7- The little things are missing....

I agree that there should have been more change to the city over the years but I really disagree with the little things being missing.  There are tons of interesting/funny things in the game outside of the core companions.

C8-  Final Fantay....

I've never played final fantasy so I can't have a good opinion on your criticism on this point.

C9- Lack of customization and features removal....

Some of your points here are merely your preferences for how you play the game and not in my mind really valid overall critiques of the game.  I had no problem at all with the inventory system or the conversation system and such.  Quite a few people were not happy with the non cusomization of the compaions but that issue is a tradeoff,  that being specific body models vs generic body models for the companions.  It would have been nice if they had at least been able to let the player colour the companions outfits somehow.

C10- Companions...

This is the point I disagree with you the most about.  The companions in DA2 interact better with each other, interact better with the player and change through out the game in a better way than in any game BioWare has done.  This is the part of BioWare games that is the most important to me and it's the reason that even with other flaws I've played it multiple times.  Maybe not the best set of companions as a group of any of their games but by far the best developed and one reason is the time passage in the game.

C11- Kirkwall. Not evolving in 7 years...

You covered this in a previous C point earlier on.

C12- Lore changes... 

Some of these were stretches to be sure but most were improvements to massive improvements.  The new Qunari were far far better than the previous version.  I am in the minority but I also like the new darkspawn a lot better than the previous ones.  The elves I agree with, just as far as looks go they do look to be patterened after other games or movies and for the most part look ugly. 

C13- Boss fights in general are weird...

My only big beef with the end boss fights was having to take on both of them at the end.  That one almost seemed to be the type of thing were the end game was shown and some marketing guru jumoped in and said Why not make them fight both! Twice as much awesome!  Some of the other boss fights were pretty good though as I asid earlier there is a great difference in difficulty in some encounters within  a given diffiuclty level.

To summarize.
Dragon Age 2 as a sequel to Dragon Age Origins is a total disaster....

I disagree totally with a blanket statement like this.  The game had some well documented weak spots but the quality of writing and companions in this game rivals any other BioWare game and since this is the strength of BioWare games, the writing, companions etc it was far from a total disaster.

[DownyTif]

@Beerfish

Thanks also!!

C3- Yeah, it's kind of an overall feeling of the game, including all the cons I stated. It's hard to describe because it's a feeling. I can't think of a better way to explain it than in my original post. It's like trying to evolve a character and companions only through combat and not through an adventure... In Zelda, you have an adventure, a progression. In ME1, ME2, DAO, too. In DA2, you do a lot of quests not really related to anything other than the atmosphere of the game (help rogue mages or templars, for example)... and voila, some events forces you to fight the Arishok. Then forces you to choose Templars or Mages with absolutly not difference in the end (you with the same people and the epilogue is almost identical). Choices don't really matters, except for the evolution of you Hawke and some companions (Anders doesn't need you to go damn crazy, Merrill doesn't need you to be crazy too).

C4- I understand that we need side quests in a game. I encourage this. But if you are not fighting in a quest, you are fedex without explanations. There are exceptions and one of it is indeed the Aveline romance quest (you talk about the patrol on the Coast right?). This was indeed excellent... too much combat, but still good. I'm not saying that all side-quests are boring, I'm saying that it's always the same. Pick a quest, travel to destination. Fight waves. Finished. Where are the quests like the one where you have to find Ruck in DAO? This example is quite simple, but it fits and on it's own, it doesn't really include combat since you are actually passing by in the Thaig. This is just one example. I'll go a with another example: The Witcher. I'm currently playing this game and I'm at the beginning. I just escorted a lady to her house at night. Only 2 really quick skirmishes... some walking. Destination reached but the quest doesn't end there, nope after some dialogs, I was able to get a date with her and the next day (evening), I must join her at a mill and I must bring wine (which I'll have to buy). It's a small and really simple side-quest, but it's really effective in the "role-playing" part of RPG. DA2 quests, with few exceptions, are all the same, in the same areas (maybe that really didn't help the feeling too).

C5- Yep, I was short there hehe. I'll give you some examples for the streamline part. All areas, excluding Kirkwall and partially the Wounded Coast, are small and require no exploration. There are a lot of quests in the same houses that have what... 4-5 small rooms? Where are the places like the Carta hideout, or the Deep Roads where you have a lot of exploration to do? Or Redcliff where the small village is really well build, including the castle? Everything feels small with no explorations (except Kirkwall). Re-used area are probably at the base of this feeling. Streamlined also in the fact that when you get to choose between mages and templars, it doesn't change a thing. Anders still nuke the city, you have to fight templars and blood mages, and Orsino, and Meredith. The dumbed-down is for everything that was forced: companions armor and weapon styles, no 2nd weapon set, etc. This C5 is probably not valid and should be included in other points...

C8- Even if you never played Final Fantasy, you should be able to comment with all the text in that point. It's more a point about DA2 being a flashy fantasy game and all other Bioware games being "realistic" fantasy games. I mean... impaling yourself with a HUGE staff to trigger blood magic??????????

C9- Indeed, here I list my preference and I took care to start this point by saying that it's a "con" for me and could easily be a "pro" for others. It's a personal review after all.

For the last comment (Summarize part), I can't see how you read my review till the end. The "total disaster" part is for the word SEQUEL and this is not reflected in your comment. As a stand alone game in the Dragon Age universe, it is not a total disaster at all. For me it is an average game, but probably the worst of Bioware since I LOVED all their other titles I played (for me again only). The disaster is when I consider this a sequel only, a sequel I pre-ordered. I well explained my though in my original post about the sequel part.

Thanks again for commeting

Modifié par DownyTif, 04 mai 2011 - 05:55 .

[TommyJayG]

Thank you so much for this personal review DownyTif. I completely agree 100% with your points concerning this installment/sequel.

Anyone that has extensively played through DA:O and all it's DLC will agree that this sequel is a rushed mediocre/shallow mess of story, creativity, gameplay, and characters. I regret pre-ordering this game, even playing it. I cannot believe that it is even called "Dragon Age". I think that my chin has dropped into the deep roads over it.

I could go on and on about the lack of story, consequences, character depth, and customization, but you have done a very good job at disclosing it all. I will not be pre-ordering DA:3 if it is anything like DA:2. I will wait and read reviews of this so-called RPG first before making a decision in purchasing it. This is all so sad. I feel as though someone has died.

Thanks again for taking the time to write a personal review the game. Let's all hope that the Bioware team behind DA 3 takes all these things into consideration. I couldn't get out of Kirkwall fast enough, as most of the population had done within that first year of being there. I never want to see it again.

[clozada]

Good personal review -- While I think overall, that DA2 is not a bad game in itself, it is a bad game considering expectations set by DA:O.

DA:O for me was an attempt to bring back the glory days of the genre -- an attempt to hit the bar set by classics like the SSI goldbox games and relatively more recent RPGs like BG2 and NWN. Its only natural that fans of the DA2 sequel would expect something similar. DA2 as a sequel is not an evolution of the original, or a revolution in RPGs. It is a completely different game. The only way for me to enjoy it, is to completely forget what DA:O felt like and to play the sequel on its own merits.

DA:O and DA:2 has as much in common between them as Creative's Rome: Total War and Spartan Total Warrior

Modifié par clozada, 05 mai 2011 - 01:53 .

[TommyJayG]

I have heard it stated that Dragon Age Origins was a love letter created for hardcore RPG fans that absolutely love the genre. If that was the case, then what is DA 2? I have heard many say that, on the games own merits, that it is good. That is where the problem lies. This is a sequel to a hugely successful RPG that is still light years ahead of DA 2 in many respects. Bioware should have called this game something else instead. It does not resonate Dragon Age. It barely even constitutes as a fantasy setting.

Everything in DA2 is rushed and broken, even the exploration through the deep roads is not as deep as one would expect. I found more characterization and sympathy for the Qunari and Arishock then I did for all my companions. At least he cared about what was happening around him and could not sit by and do nothing. Why couldn't I have sided with him and fought alongside him? Instead you either turn in one of your companions or fight him. What a choice. For my companions, they did nothing to help change their environment. Even the city guards were useless, they just stood around and watched me fight gangs that they should have been attempting to clean up.The characters ****ed and whined about everything under the sun and had no dignity or ever moved or bathed in ten years.. All they cared about was themselves. Hawke wasn't their friend, he or she was just the "go to" person for their problems. What about Hawkes problems? No one really cared. They just used him to further their own ambitions.

Anders was intolerable, even on a mage playthrough. How could one not decide to kill him? Would you really allow a terrorist to live? There was no way that Hawke could influence or "harden" a character. Or even soften a character. They were set in stone and never changed their outloook, living space, or clothing. Dead bodies still lined their floors and they still propped up a bar after 10 years time. Isabela must really stink of stale booze and whatever else seeing that; like the enviroments and dungeons: she never changes. Who would want to romance that? Even prince Balim had more substance and character to him then all these characters combined.

What about Hawkes choices? They didn't matter at all in the long run. He couldn't save his brother or sister or mother or put a rest to anything that was going on around him. He was just there to make a showing. The events that happen in his or her life would shatter a person and cause them to be very angry. Instead, the drama was absent and everything that happened of any significance in his or her life was waved off easily and rebounded from. "Oh well, such is life, let's go kill some bandits on the wounded coast...again. This time it is different because they have spiders working with them." Please! Give me a break! Even on a mage playthru I wanted to kill all mages in Kirkwall after "All that Remains." And why not, no matter if you assist them, they hate you and try to kill you at every turn. Why was Bethany the only non blood mage in the whole surrounding area? She showed that mages can restrain themselves and have something called "personal responsibility." whereas everyone else just had excuses for their decisions.

"Meredith made me do it. Orsino made me do it. The mages made me do it. The demons made me do it. Hawke made me do it...after 10 years of drinking the same swill at the Hangedman, that made me do it."

I tell you, after going through all the recycled enviroments and seeing no changes in this city after 10 years time, shallow characters and story, no real consequences to decisions, no character customizations, etc. The game itself made me turn it in.

[ftbscreamer]

DownyTif wrote...
This is attrocious. Darkspawn in Origins felt strong, vicious, fearfull and corrupted. In DA2, they move like monkeys....

I call it the Dark Spawn Shuffel™

[DownyTif]

@TommyJayG

ehhe, you surely look like it was a worst experience for you than for me. But you have really interesting points in your reply. I mean I agree with most of what you said!

@ftbscreamer
It has a name!!! I'll use that from now on

[Pasquale1234]

Faroth wrote...

Oisrisso wrote...

What does it matter? It doesn't affect you -at all- if you're playing a straight character. The bisexuality of the various characters doesn't come up unless you instigate it. Why deny other players options?

It matters because it makes the characters generic responses in a can instead of characters.

Zevran was flirty and bi-sexual.
Leliana was more closed, but it turned out she was bi-sexual.
Morrigan's straight, as is Alistair.
Ohgren....I'm not going to comment as I'm not sure what he would/wouldn't do if drunk enough. 

The characters are different. Y'know, like people.

Now what does it matter?

Replayability.

If every character responds to every player character aren't they just a set batch of replies with no personality?

I'd much rather have characters each have personalities, including their sexuality, and know that I should play through multiple times to get the full depths of their personal stories.  The bi-sexual characters, I suppose, allow for either straight or gay player to access, but I'd be more in favor of the game having straight companions, bi-sexual companions, and ******-sexual companions for romance plots.


Of course, that worked better in Origins where I could alter the other epilogue details more than DA2 allows.

I was delighted to find that all of the romanceable characters are bi-sexual, because it optimizes the player's options.

In DA:O, I started a playthrough as a male warden expressly for the purpose of earning the Witch Gone Wild trophy.  As soon as I achieved that objective, I abandoned that game.  An entire playthrough is a pretty big time commitment, and I much prefer to play as a female character.

I would expect an outcry if, for example, Leliana and Zevran were strictly gay (instead of bi-sexual).  In that case, male wardens would not have been able to romance Leliana and females would not have been able to romance Zevran.  It would have ultimately restricted player's romance options and, imho, contributed nothing to the overall presentation of the unique personalities and characterizations of the companions.

[Lord Gremlin]

Read whole OP. What can I say - another opinion similar to mine. There are many such posts on these boards.
And yes, it's a huge flaw that DA2's been advertised as a direct sequel to Dragon Age.

[Serpieri Nei]

Well-Written Review DownyTif - if you haven't yet can you also post this in the Constructive Criticism thread.