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[Robtachi]

Seriously? After the tremendous outcry from the fanbase for some sort of compensation for the (now) months of waiting on patches to fix game breaking bugs, glitches and freezes, we get...

Three item packs, each of which include one set of armor and a weapon, for $3 each, a la Mass Effect.*

*worth mentioning though not altogether related that it is disturbing to see just how much DAII is borrowing from ME's success, rather than being left to make its own way as a franchise.

Since Dragon Age II's release, Bioware fans and forum users have been crying out for some sort of recognition of our aguish at a product that is universally accepted as having been pushed out the door too quickly.  Some indication that Bioware - a developer that would not and could not exist were it not for well over a decade of zealous dedication, hundreds of dollars worth of games purchased and thousands of hours spent playing those games by its loyal fans - acknowledges and appreciates we, the players.  No such luck.

I would like to point out something I found incredibly telling that I read only moments after seeing news about the new DLC:

David Gaider wrote...

It's true that some people seem
intent on making the forums pretty toxic. As someone pointed out above,
however, we're pretty much used to filtering out the extremes of
opinion-- for the most part I think it's safe to assume that fans are so
passionate because they care, and that those who engage in gross
hyperbole do so because they either believe this makes their opinion
more convincing or because they think that shouting above everyone else
is the only way to get heard.

That doesn't mean their problems
don't exist. We recognize that. At the same time, it doesn't exactly
make it an environment where we can engage in much discussion-- if
discussion is actually desired, which sadly doesn't seem to always be
the case.

What's good is that there are people who do make a
point of expressing their concerns in a thoughtful and intelligent
manner despite all the static. We are reading them, and while
some folks seem to take anything positive being said about DA2 as a
blanket dismissal of anyone who didn't enjoy it, that's really not the
truth. It's silly to say that no-one has issues just as it's silly to
say everyone did. As always, we'll look at the feedback and take it into
consideration as we move forward-- there's really not much more to say
at this point, other than announcements will be forthcoming from those
who make such things (which is not me).

Just so we are clear, this is in no way an attack on David Gaider in any form whatsoever, so please do NOT allow your input to degrade to that impertinent and ultimately unhelpful level.  As the Lead Writer we are all well aware he has little to do if anything at all with the manner in which DLC is released.  He simply happens to be the one making a point which I feel screams out for illumination.

I try very hard, as do most others, I feel, as a fan base to not speak in wild hyperbole and mutually destructive emotional extremes.  As Mr. Gaider says, that is no way to be heard and taken seriously.

The problem is, frankly sometimes Bioware makes it really damn hard not to, with this as a perfect example.  In a virtually unanimous voice, we have been calling for some sort of indication that Bioware, as Mr. Gaider claims they do, does actually care what their fans want and believe is fair and in the best interest of the franchise.  And yet, while some of us are STILL waiting to take our pre-ordered or release date copies of DAII off the shelf, dust them off, and finally continue with our campaign, we are given the first DLC which amounts to little more than the addition and installation of a few extra lines of code and some low resolution textures.  And what's more, we are expected to pay $9; well more than the Return to Ostagar DLC for Origins which could certainly be argued was something that significantly enriched the playing experience.

Some of us asked for a free first DLC.  Some of us asked for something in-depth to add to the story.  But the underlying theme in what was typically a common request was that whatever Bioware did next, they make it worth our trouble.  Make it worthwhile, show us that you do listen and you do care, and we can all make an effort in kind to be reasonable and patient.

I cannot state this plainly and without bias enough, but this is the dead wrong message to send to your loyalists. "By the way, your game still may not work, but in the mean time, buy this extra thing that while interesting is utterly superficial."  I am sorry, but that is not good enough.  That's not even good.  It's awful.

I am loathe to speak in such extremes because it is the shortest path to being ignored, but when being shown this level of disregard, you can only react with what is natural and what you feel is fair.

And in my fair opinion, it feels like Bioware has just hacked a metaphorical loogie right in my eye.  Again.


Ignore me if you wish.  If you feel my opinions are too hyperbolic, then it is your prerogative and responsibility to do ignore them.  But it does not change the fact that the feeling is there, and it is very, very real.

Modifié par Robtachi, 28 avril 2011 - 05:06 .

[John Epler]

mousestalker wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...
Just a note on this: the devs have explained in other threads that due to QA concerns it's much easier and quicker for community members to throw a fix together for issues than it is for BioWare to get them out in a patch. This is due in part to the fact they have to test extensively to be sure the fix doesn't end up breaking something else, as well as waiting for approval to put the patches out the door. This process takes far longer than it does for a community member to throw a fix together.

Which is the main reason my preference is, to the extent that resources are allocated between toolset release and dlcs, the toolset release be given priority. It puts the tools to remedy bugs in the hands of the many and speeds up the process.

On the meta note, as a PC player, mods extend the life of a game for me. They make me happier with a game. I loathed most Oblivion games on release. That I like them now is due entirely to the modding community. I'm probably an outlier as for as the typical gamer, but my early DA2 purchase was very much an anomaly for me and is not likely to reoccur.

tl/dnr version: The greater the ability to mod a game, the more likely mousestalker buys it. DLC's do not factor into the equation at all.

The caveat here, unfortunately, is that DLC, patches and toolset release for the public all require rather different resource allocation. DLC is almost entirely content creation - there's very little programming necessary. Maybe a few workflow changes to the tools to make life easier for those of us using them, or to address concerns that were raised when working on DA2, but it's almost entirely content side - Design, Art, Audio and QA. It should be noted, of course, that QA is the one resource that appears in all three with similar representation. Though when it comes to item packs and the like, the distribution is mostly Art, with some QA and minimal Design representation, mostly to stat out the items and make sure they don't break anything elsewhere in the game.

Patches involve both groups, though there isn't really much for Art to do in a patch. Nor, for that matter, for the majority of Design - there isn't really much for Cinematic Design or Writing to do in a patch, for example, though Tech Design is likely going to hop in and fix a few bugs. So all of those groups tend to be allocated to DLC. Programming also enters the picture here, as there are certainly bugs that can only be fixed by them - so while you wouldn't have much in the way of programming resources for DLC, you'll have them for patch work. And, of course, QA once again needs to test the patch to ensure that it A) fixes what it's supposed to fix and doesn't break anything else.

And finally, there's any work involved in releasing the toolset. Here, it's almost entirely Programming. Design, Art, Audio - there's nothing much for us to do, aside from maybe provide occasional feedback along the lines of 'if you release it to the public you need to make sure that X and Y work properly or else there's no point in letting them do Z'. QA is necessary to test the tools, so you have to get them involved, but aside from that it's all Programming.

So DLC doesn't really preclude the toolset, which doesn't really preclude patching. Though there's some resource sharing, each of the three has its own unique allocation that shouldn't interfere with the others. That's not always the case, but as a general rule it's pretty accurate.

[Fernando Melo]

Rather than reposting it all again, i'll just include a link below to some feedback on the more common questions I've seen come up so far if that helps.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/260/index/7215354/31#7255515

[Stanley Woo]

Please don't resurrect month-old threads. Thank you.

End of line.