347 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Reinveil wrote...
 
Nothing changes if everyone's attitude is "if you don't like it, leave".  It sends an irresponsible message (much like spending 5 dollars on what amounts to Barbie Dress-Up when some people still can't even play the game), and stifles discussion and debate.

So, I answered your question, and now I ask: what are you trying to accomplish with these rants?

Reinveil, calling everyone who chose to buy the DLC irresponsible, is just as bad as the "don't like it, leave." line. It's insulting to those people who are enjoying the DLC, and it's been pointed out that DLC and Patch resources don't collide all that much, plus there have been two patches for PC and one title update for consoles (not counting PSN's problems), and they are working on the next patch.

I think both you guys need to step back and breath.

Fair enough.  I will forever curse Bethesda for kicking off the horse armor model of DLC, but I guess they knew what they were doing, as people continue to buy it.  You're right, I suppose it all depends on perspective.  I apologize if I offended.  I normally don't get that riled up posting here, but when I read the "you're entitled" defense enough times, especially after I've repeatedly said otherwise, it grates on my nerves.

Even Beth can laugh about the Horse Armor now. And about the entitlement... If product X produced by Y does not function as advertized they better come up with a solution. Claiming that one is not entitled to that does only one thing: The problem won't be fixed. That doesn't mean you have to be offensive about it, but pushing for a solution is the only option you have. Voting with your wallet helps, but mainly effects the next product.

Making sure the product works, is a company's due dillegence, if it doesn't work, or there are bugs (in the case of games or other software) the company has a responsibility to find them and remove them.

There just seems to be this (I believe) very small subset who think that just because the game wasn't what they expected Bioware owes them lots of free stuff. Not everybody who didn't like the direction of DA2 is like that nor is everybody who is having bug problems that make the game difficult to play. But there are just some people who seem to think yelling loud enough and long enough they'll get on Bioware's nerves and get free stuff just to shut them up. I doubt it's going to happen, but passion isn't rational, and all they really do is make rifts where they shouldn't be. Like the social network version of Fringe events.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ariella wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Reinveil wrote...
 
Nothing changes if everyone's attitude is "if you don't like it, leave".  It sends an irresponsible message (much like spending 5 dollars on what amounts to Barbie Dress-Up when some people still can't even play the game), and stifles discussion and debate.

So, I answered your question, and now I ask: what are you trying to accomplish with these rants?

Reinveil, calling everyone who chose to buy the DLC irresponsible, is just as bad as the "don't like it, leave." line. It's insulting to those people who are enjoying the DLC, and it's been pointed out that DLC and Patch resources don't collide all that much, plus there have been two patches for PC and one title update for consoles (not counting PSN's problems), and they are working on the next patch.

I think both you guys need to step back and breath.

Fair enough.  I will forever curse Bethesda for kicking off the horse armor model of DLC, but I guess they knew what they were doing, as people continue to buy it.  You're right, I suppose it all depends on perspective.  I apologize if I offended.  I normally don't get that riled up posting here, but when I read the "you're entitled" defense enough times, especially after I've repeatedly said otherwise, it grates on my nerves.

Even Beth can laugh about the Horse Armor now. And about the entitlement... If product X produced by Y does not function as advertized they better come up with a solution. Claiming that one is not entitled to that does only one thing: The problem won't be fixed. That doesn't mean you have to be offensive about it, but pushing for a solution is the only option you have. Voting with your wallet helps, but mainly effects the next product.

Making sure the product works, is a company's due dillegence, if it doesn't work, or there are bugs (in the case of games or other software) the company has a responsibility to find them and remove them.

There just seems to be this (I believe) very small subset who think that just because the game wasn't what they expected Bioware owes them lots of free stuff. Not everybody who didn't like the direction of DA2 is like that nor is everybody who is having bug problems that make the game difficult to play. But there are just some people who seem to think yelling loud enough and long enough they'll get on Bioware's nerves and get free stuff just to shut them up. I doubt it's going to happen, but passion isn't rational, and all they really do is make rifts where they shouldn't be. Like the social network version of Fringe events.

You know... I can understand it a bit. Providing additional content used to be part of patches. Not all minor patches had that, though. It was intended like "Sorry for the bugs. We have fixed them. To make up for the trouble that it has caused we included some free content. We hope you'll come back."

There are still companies that are doing that. An example is a German company called Egosoft. They support a product for about 2 years that way. After one year or so they also remove the DRM, because they don't like DRM as well, but feel that their product needs to be protected that way for at least a year.

So, the tradition changes and the additional content is now called a DLC. But when I look at DA:O then I see hunderds of bugs (well documented BTW, just look at the wikia), but nearly none of them are fixed and I see lots of DLCs released for that game.

You see the point I am trying to make here? Some of us are scratching their head.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 30 avril 2011 - 01:27 .

[Mad-Max90]

I bought the dlc, is it bad, well the armor is bad, I don't want to play as the queen of hearts, but the weapons are good, some of them seem a tad bland but they are decent, that's my review of the dlc. Since I bought it I think I can complain, but I won't. The only thing that frustrates me is that they should have added quests to obtain the items, but what the hell. Would I have preferred the cost to be a bit cheaper, yes. Do I think this game is the worst game ever, no, is it one of the worst sequels ever, it's up there but not the worst.

[MorrigansLove]

http://chzmemeafterd...g-is-an-art.gif

[elearon1]

You know, I just don't get where this whole "I didn't like the game, so Bioware owes me something!" claim comes from. To me, this seems like a sad, though eloquent statement about how entitled fans have become these days.

When I buy a game and didn't like it I say, "Lame, didn't like this game, now I'm out 60 bucks", but I don't blame anyone but myself ... after all, it was I who chose to buy the game. Now, in the future I'd be more careful with that company, and might wait until a number of reviews came out before buying any more of their games, but that's really where it ends; if I didn't like a game, the best thing I can do is tell the company by not so freely investing in their next product.

But this "I don't like it, give me something for free" philosophy seems silly. For one, if you hated the game, what good does a free dlc make? If you disliked the game that much, would you still play it again just to take advantage of the free swag? Or is it not more likely that the only people who will use (and thus buy) something like this are those who enjoyed the game in the first place?

That's like going to a restaurant and complaining that the steak is rancid ... when they ask you how they can fix it, you tell them you want more steak. (not even a different steak, just more - which is effectively what a dlc is)

[Cutlass Jack]

elearon1 wrote...

That's like going to a restaurant and complaining that the steak is rancid ... when they ask you how they can fix it, you tell them you want more steak. (not even a different steak, just more - which is effectively what a dlc is)

I don't like this analogy. I feel you betrayed my trust in you to make high quality analogies. If you give me more analogies without charge, perhaps one day I can learn  trust you again.

[neppakyo]

Heh, so I see my prediction of this DLC adding more fuel to the fire is pretty spot on.

@sab

Damn, that's bad. Hope you get the DRM issue settled so you don't have to wipe your system. Heh, so a bug in DRM to go along with bugs in the game, after awhile makes you feel a bit apathetic. I used the securom tool to remove it from my system, and deleted registry keys manually. The DA2 launcher tells me DA2 isn't installed (it is) but I can launch it by directly running the .exe file from the DA2 directory.

So in my case, removing the securom, the DA2 launcher thinks the game isn't installed. Isn't badly implemented DRM wonderful? /sarcasm.

[Ariella]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ariella wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Reinveil wrote...
 
Nothing changes if everyone's attitude is "if you don't like it, leave".  It sends an irresponsible message (much like spending 5 dollars on what amounts to Barbie Dress-Up when some people still can't even play the game), and stifles discussion and debate.

So, I answered your question, and now I ask: what are you trying to accomplish with these rants?

Reinveil, calling everyone who chose to buy the DLC irresponsible, is just as bad as the "don't like it, leave." line. It's insulting to those people who are enjoying the DLC, and it's been pointed out that DLC and Patch resources don't collide all that much, plus there have been two patches for PC and one title update for consoles (not counting PSN's problems), and they are working on the next patch.

I think both you guys need to step back and breath.

Fair enough.  I will forever curse Bethesda for kicking off the horse armor model of DLC, but I guess they knew what they were doing, as people continue to buy it.  You're right, I suppose it all depends on perspective.  I apologize if I offended.  I normally don't get that riled up posting here, but when I read the "you're entitled" defense enough times, especially after I've repeatedly said otherwise, it grates on my nerves.

Even Beth can laugh about the Horse Armor now. And about the entitlement... If product X produced by Y does not function as advertized they better come up with a solution. Claiming that one is not entitled to that does only one thing: The problem won't be fixed. That doesn't mean you have to be offensive about it, but pushing for a solution is the only option you have. Voting with your wallet helps, but mainly effects the next product.

Making sure the product works, is a company's due dillegence, if it doesn't work, or there are bugs (in the case of games or other software) the company has a responsibility to find them and remove them.

There just seems to be this (I believe) very small subset who think that just because the game wasn't what they expected Bioware owes them lots of free stuff. Not everybody who didn't like the direction of DA2 is like that nor is everybody who is having bug problems that make the game difficult to play. But there are just some people who seem to think yelling loud enough and long enough they'll get on Bioware's nerves and get free stuff just to shut them up. I doubt it's going to happen, but passion isn't rational, and all they really do is make rifts where they shouldn't be. Like the social network version of Fringe events.

You know... I can understand it a bit. Providing additional content used to be part of patches. Not all minor patches had that, though. It was intended like "Sorry for the bugs. We have fixed them. To make up for the trouble that it has caused we included some free content. We hope you'll come back."

There are still companies that are doing that. An example is a German company called Egosoft. They support a product for about 2 years that way. After one year or so they also remove the DRM, because they don't like DRM as well, but feel that their product needs to be protected that way for at least a year.

So, the tradition changes and the additional content is now called a DLC. But when I look at DA:O then I see hunderds of bugs (well documented BTW, just look at the wikia), but nearly none of them are fixed and I see lots of DLCs released for that game.

You see the point I am trying to make here? Some of us are scratching their head.

Yeah, I do, and even with DAO we go a couple little thing (The Edge dagger for example was completely free).

I also remember a time when we usually got all this stuff all at once in an xpac rather than via DLC. Used to be that the latest pack at least for PC usually had the newsest fixes, plus huge amounts of content for about half the original game. I kinda miss those days.

I don't know why they stopped patching DAO, it never made sense to me. I'm thinking it was probably a decision made more in the head offices of EA rather than at Bioware, and not because EA is evil, but because of the economy. I have no proof to back this up but it's what my gut tells me. I'm not sure if it was an attitude of they'd been sitting on DA for so long at that point it was going to be as fixed as it could be, or that EA didn't expect it to do as well as it did and was surprised. I have no clue. But I do believe that if Bioware could, they'd go back to the model they had with NWN, which honestly I think is probably the most patched and supported game of all time.  I think they went from 2002-2008 which would put it way beyond the life expectancy of most game. 

But a poor economy, little wars all over the place, right now, in the little I understand economics means doing all a company can to keep the bottom line going so you don't have to do things like let people go. If at this point in time, DLC is helping that, I can't blame companies for it. SOE just did a massive restructuring, something like 750 people lost their jobs.

Maybe I see it this way because my husband got let go by one of those "restructuring" moments by a big corperation. He was fortunate enough to only be out of work for about a year before he found something comperable in his field. That and I just have an attachment to Bioware, probably irrational, but there. I mean, we talk to these guys here, and the idea of any of them getting the pink slip bugs the hell out of me. They aren't just names in the credits to me so I support the company, even when I wish we could go back to the good old days.

So that's it. That's my big reason for supporting DA2 and DLC for it. I'd hope in 10 years to have a rack of DA games to share with my girls. I hope by then it'll be better times again. We've been through the goes around, I'm just waiting for the comes around again.

[Mad-Max90]

It is fairly lame dlc, but I will be lurking in the dark alleys untill a more story driven dlc is out, I just want to make one choice that effects the plot just one

[AngryFrozenWater]

@Ariella: The pyramid has become too big, so I'll continue here.

That additional free content and great service also creates goodwill and brand loyalty. I think it is a good idea for companies to try to go back to more service. Not because there are a lot of fools like me that pay for a game more than once (twice for TW1 and trice for X3:TC), but if the economy is part of the problem then maybe it would be wise to keep your customers by providing that service, instead of annoying them further.

I understand that your loyalty to BW has grown over the years. What keeps me here are some people on these forums and the chance that one head might turn by what I post (and that chance may approach zero - I know). My loyalty to BW is currently limited to some devs on my friend list. The bad DA:O patch support, DA2's state and Arrival being devoid of RPG didn't actually make me happy so to speak.

Edit: Oh! And I forgot FemShep. She keeps me here as well.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 30 avril 2011 - 04:08 .

[Tommy6860]

Rojahar wrote...

I can't help but wonder if the artists have so much free time as to be pumping out and charging us for appearance packs, why couldn't they have given us more diverse environments and equipment in the actual game?

Agreed, even offering a DLC package that has more meaning to the effects of gaming and even maybe you and your companions powers/abilities would be markedly better than some superficial appearance offering that has little bearing in the game, even in protection or more powerful weapons. I didn't see anyone comment on using the DLC where one of their comapnions complimented them on their new swag.

[Kilshrek]

Hey look! Valve is giving players Portal 2 DLC(Which includes new maps/challenges, among other things). Who'dathunkit.

Giving = handing out, like, for free, like.


edit : and Valve only got slammed for offering "Day 1 DLC" which wasn't really even DLC but silly appearances for silly little robots which add or subtract nothing at all from the game. And among the more churlish complaints they said they paid full price for a short game(which may be true but I would count the 8 hours I spent playing Portal 2 as the best hours spent after the 2 playing Portal.) Quality of time spent.

Modifié par Kilshrek, 30 avril 2011 - 04:20 .

[Exzander1]

I can't really share the opinions of others here, as I never found a single glitch/freeze/crash in my 2 plays through the game, but if many others are having these issues, then they should fix it first. I don't think, in any way shape or form, that they should give DLC away for free. They create it, they make it, therefore it's fully in their right to sell it. They don't owe us anything EXTRA, however, they definitely do owe us a fix for the isses/glitches/freezes with the game, and should be done/have been done before even considering DLC.

As for the DLC in general, there's so many games coming out that I couldn't care less for any DA2 DLC right now. I won't be purchasing this DLC as I don't need another armor set and weapon for each class, it literally adds nothing to the game, so I'll save my money and get something good.

[Plaintiff]

Kilshrek wrote...

Hey look! Valve is giving players Portal 2 DLC(Which includes new maps/challenges, among other things). Who'dathunkit.

Giving = handing out, like, for free, like.


edit : and Valve only got slammed for offering "Day 1 DLC" which wasn't really even DLC but silly appearances for silly little robots which add or subtract nothing at all from the game. And among the more churlish complaints they said they paid full price for a short game(which may be true but I would count the 8 hours I spent playing Portal 2 as the best hours spent after the 2 playing Portal.) Quality of time spent.

Bioware already gave customers a hell of a lot of stuff. Multiple free items were granted simply for registering for the game, signing up for the newsletter, etc. You may disagree, but in my eyes the half-second it takes to click a button counts as "free". Not to mention, they already gave bonus content in the form of the Black Emporium and The Exiled Prince DLC, both of which are free to players who buy the game new or preordered the signature edition respectively.

[Ariella]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

@Ariella: The pyramid has become too big, so I'll continue here.

That additional free content and great service also creates goodwill and brand loyalty. I think it is a good idea for companies to try to go back to more service. Not because there are a lot of fools like me that pay for a game more than once (twice for TW1 and trice for X3:TC), but if the economy is part of the problem then maybe it would be wise to keep your customers by providing that service, instead of annoying them further.

I'll agree that the pyramid was getting a tinsy bit unwieldy .

My father owns his own company (yes this plays in) and he's been known to drive all night to deliver product or meeting with his customers, then drive back. He's insane, but the company's been doing well, despite the economy. So I agree with you. Unfortunately, I'm not sure sure if any notice from any of us could change that. Since RPGs are a small market in the first place. Hell, I'm just glad we still have a market.

I understand that your loyalty to BW has grown over the years. What keeps me here are some people on these forums and the chance that one head might turn by what I post (and that chance may approach zero - I know). My loyalty to BW is currently limited to some devs on my friend list. The bad DA:O patch support, DA2's state and Arrival being devoid of RPG didn't actually make me happy so to speak.

Edit: Oh! And I forgot FemShep. She keeps me here as well.

I haven't played Arrival yet, so I can't comment. But I'll agree FemShep keeps me here to. Voted in the poll btw

[Tommy6860]

Plaintiff wrote...

Kilshrek wrote...

Hey look! Valve is giving players Portal 2 DLC(Which includes new maps/challenges, among other things). Who'dathunkit.

Giving = handing out, like, for free, like.


edit : and Valve only got slammed for offering "Day 1 DLC" which wasn't really even DLC but silly appearances for silly little robots which add or subtract nothing at all from the game. And among the more churlish complaints they said they paid full price for a short game(which may be true but I would count the 8 hours I spent playing Portal 2 as the best hours spent after the 2 playing Portal.) Quality of time spent.

Bioware already gave customers a hell of a lot of stuff. Multiple free items were granted simply for registering for the game, signing up for the newsletter, etc. You may disagree, but in my eyes the half-second it takes to click a button counts as "free". Not to mention, they already gave bonus content in the form of the Black Emporium and The Exiled Prince DLC, both of which are free to players who buy the game new or preordered the signature edition respectively.

Your definition of "free" is interesting, as Bioware gave nothing away for free. You can call them carrot sticks, if you want.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 30 avril 2011 - 05:28 .

[Mezinger]

I would never buy item, outfit based DLC... it's just such a foreign idea to me... maybe in a MMO? To customize your character but even then... really? People care about this stuff?

Story driven DLC is the only type I'm interested in and sadly it mostly is terrible, the Shadow Broker for ME2 is the only decent one that I can think of... and really that should have been included in the game and not been DLC in the first place... the reunion with Liara without it was just terribly bad. I guess Warden's Keep from the DA:O was okay too.

[Kilshrek]

Exzander and Plaintiff, you both make good points but what I was saying is that Valve got slammed by their "fans" for supposedly offering day 1 DLC(which is false), and for making a short game sold at full price(which is true if you don't consider the quality of time you spend playing a game) and still decided to hand out free DLC. Which adds quite a fair bit of content it would seem.

Bioware is under no obligation to give us free DLC or anything, yes, but considering the effort they seem to be putting into DLC rather than polishing the game(and please don't give me that different team argument, surely the resources could have been spent on polish or dungeon design without considering putting out DLC first), and now with this appearance pack which adds nothing significant to the game, goodwill has been eroded in certain parts of the player base. If you're going to accuse me of being ungrateful or feeling entitled then I'll live with it and lose no sleep over it, but I feel that Bioware does have an obligation to make an effort to restore goodwill where it has been lost. The Exiled Prince is SE only, how many people had their SE's cancelled due to someone's incompetence(no blame in any particular direction, just those people who stuffed up SE orders).

We can agree to disagree, but I think Bioware as a whole needs to do a little more work for the community here. Entitlement?

Modifié par Kilshrek, 30 avril 2011 - 05:34 .

[Exzander1]

Kilshrek wrote...

Exzander and Plaintiff, you both make good points but what I was saying is that Valve got slammed by their "fans" for supposedly offering day 1 DLC(which is false), and for making a short game sold at full price(which is true if you don't consider the quality of time you spend playing a game) and still decided to hand out free DLC. Which adds quite a fair bit of content it would seem.

Bioware is under no obligation to give us free DLC or anything, yes, but considering the effort they seem to be putting into DLC rather than polishing the game(and please don't give me that different team argument, surely the resources could have been spent on polish or dungeon design without considering putting out DLC first), and now with this appearance pack which adds nothing significant to the game, goodwill has been eroded in certain parts of the player base. If you're going to accuse me of being ungrateful or feeling entitled then I'll live with it and lose no sleep over it, but I feel that Bioware does have an obligation to make an effort to restore goodwill where it has been lost. The Exiled Prince is SE only, how many people had their SE's cancelled due to someone's incompetence(no blame in any particular direction, just those people who stuffed up SE orders).

We can agree to disagree, but I think Bioware as a whole needs to do a little more work for the community here. Entitlement?

The thing is, Dragon Age isn't a 5 hour game, it's a 30-40 hour game with loads of content, and, there are even people who have spent 70 hours playing it (such as Darksydephil on youtube, his playthrough runs at 70 hours, if you wanted proof). The game, for many people, runs perfectly well, as I said I never experienced a single glitch or bug with 2 plays through the game.

They should be working on a patch to fix whater bugs/issues the game has, and we as their customers deserve to get these things fixed. However, a free DLC for a game that can run up to 70 hours and is about 40 hours on average, a game that already gave us many things like the black emporium/skill books/weapons on release date for free as well as a free high res texture pack, which they did not need to release, they could have just kept the textures as is, etc, is just not required nore expected in any way shape or form. Even without all those free things, they still wouldn't owe us a free DLC.

Summary:

Portal 2 is not really a good example, as the game really is half-assed in the sense that it's 5 hours long and is sold at full price. A free DLC makes up for it some. Dragon Age 2,  a 40-70 hour game that a vast amount of people can/do play without many issues (this forum is by far the minority), which also gave us free weapons, the black emporium, the dog, as well as a free high res texture pack on release (can't remember if the res pack was on release or not), does not need to hand out a free DLC, even if there are bugs/glitches that need resolved.

I will say, though, as I did in my first post, they should have postponed any DLC and worked only on a patch for the bugs/glitches, that makes a lot of sense and is required if some people cannot enjoy the game fully without it.

Modifié par Exzander1, 30 avril 2011 - 05:49 .

[Elhanan]

Kilshrek wrote...

Exzander and Plaintiff, you both make good points but what I was saying is that Valve got slammed by their "fans" for supposedly offering day 1 DLC(which is false), and for making a short game sold at full price(which is true if you don't consider the quality of time you spend playing a game) and still decided to hand out free DLC. Which adds quite a fair bit of content it would seem.

Bioware is under no obligation to give us free DLC or anything, yes, but considering the effort they seem to be putting into DLC rather than polishing the game(and please don't give me that different team argument, surely the resources could have been spent on polish or dungeon design without considering putting out DLC first), and now with this appearance pack which adds nothing significant to the game, goodwill has been eroded in certain parts of the player base. If you're going to accuse me of being ungrateful or feeling entitled then I'll live with it and lose no sleep over it, but I feel that Bioware does have an obligation to make an effort to restore goodwill where it has been lost. The Exiled Prince is SE only, how many people had their SE's cancelled due to someone's incompetence(no blame in any particular direction, just those people who stuffed up SE orders).

We can agree to disagree, but I think Bioware as a whole needs to do a little more work for the community here. Entitlement?

Yep; entitlement. Your second para simply dismisses the notion that different teams and indv perform different tasks. I like David as a writer, Stan as QA Ninja, and CP as Evil PR Overlord; doesn't mean I want them writing code, making armors, or implementing weapons. If so, we would have nerf items: noodles, trout, HK-47... maybe it ain't all bad.

Just because you FEEL Bioware has lost goodwill and owes us something does not equate that to FACT.

[Plaintiff]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Kilshrek wrote...

Hey look! Valve is giving players Portal 2 DLC(Which includes new maps/challenges, among other things). Who'dathunkit.

Giving = handing out, like, for free, like.


edit : and Valve only got slammed for offering "Day 1 DLC" which wasn't really even DLC but silly appearances for silly little robots which add or subtract nothing at all from the game. And among the more churlish complaints they said they paid full price for a short game(which may be true but I would count the 8 hours I spent playing Portal 2 as the best hours spent after the 2 playing Portal.) Quality of time spent.

Bioware already gave customers a hell of a lot of stuff. Multiple free items were granted simply for registering for the game, signing up for the newsletter, etc. You may disagree, but in my eyes the half-second it takes to click a button counts as "free". Not to mention, they already gave bonus content in the form of the Black Emporium and The Exiled Prince DLC, both of which are free to players who buy the game new or preordered the signature edition respectively.

Your definition of "free" is interesting, as Bioware gave nothing away for free. You can call them carrot sticks, if you want.

If it doesn't cost money or require undue effort, it is free, yes.

I don't know what the hell you mean by use of the term "carrot sticks". Is the staff of parlathan good with peanut butter?

The fact is, Bioware provided plenty of extra content that is not in the basic product and is obtained through optional means and costs you nothing in a monetary sense. You can trot out the tired cliche that "time is money", or some similar nonsense, but unless you literally lost money because you were busy typing in your promotional code to download the Black Emporium, I wouldn't waste my time trying to argue that point.

[Tommy6860]

Mezinger wrote...

I would never buy item, outfit based DLC... it's just such a foreign idea to me... maybe in a MMO? To customize your character but even then... really? People care about this stuff?

Story driven DLC is the only type I'm interested in and sadly it mostly is terrible, the Shadow Broker for ME2 is the only decent one that I can think of... and really that should have been included in the game and not been DLC in the first place... the reunion with Liara without it was just terribly bad. I guess Warden's Keep from the DA:O was okay too.

Unless I am misunderstanding you on the reunion with Liara, the LotSB  DLC actually expounded on that, expecially after getting the huge revelation from Liara in just ME2. IMO, having the DLC already included in the main game may had broken up the theme of ME2 so much that I probably wouldn't have cared for much else about the game, but that one part raised my eyebrows. When she told me what she had done, that one aspect alone made the game story so important to me, in what was seemingly becoming just an action game with some decent ME storyline inclusions. Seriously thiough, Liara already stated in just ME2 why she couldn't come along when Shepard ask her to, so LotSB really made that aspect important to me.

I also thought RtO was decent, and though it didn't really expand on the story behind Leliana, I did, in a small way, enjoy Leliana's Song, though in retrospect, I would have passed on it. I agree that nearly all other Bioware DLCs are pretty useless. I initially enjoyed Overlord but regretted it afterwards. I really disliked the Kasumi: Stolen Memory mission, but I liked her as a squad mate.

EDITED: because dyslexia is a bummer

Modifié par Tommy6860, 30 avril 2011 - 06:32 .

[Tommy6860]

Plaintiff wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Kilshrek wrote...

Hey look! Valve is giving players Portal 2 DLC(Which includes new maps/challenges, among other things). Who'dathunkit.

Giving = handing out, like, for free, like.


edit : and Valve only got slammed for offering "Day 1 DLC" which wasn't really even DLC but silly appearances for silly little robots which add or subtract nothing at all from the game. And among the more churlish complaints they said they paid full price for a short game(which may be true but I would count the 8 hours I spent playing Portal 2 as the best hours spent after the 2 playing Portal.) Quality of time spent.

Bioware already gave customers a hell of a lot of stuff. Multiple free items were granted simply for registering for the game, signing up for the newsletter, etc. You may disagree, but in my eyes the half-second it takes to click a button counts as "free". Not to mention, they already gave bonus content in the form of the Black Emporium and The Exiled Prince DLC, both of which are free to players who buy the game new or preordered the signature edition respectively.

Your definition of "free" is interesting, as Bioware gave nothing away for free. You can call them carrot sticks, if you want.

If it doesn't cost money or require undue effort, it is free, yes.

I don't know what the hell you mean by use of the term "carrot sticks". Is the staff of parlathan good with peanut butter?

The fact is, Bioware provided plenty of extra content that is not in the basic product and is obtained through optional means and costs you nothing in a monetary sense. You can trot out the tired cliche that "time is money", or some similar nonsense, but unless you literally lost money because you were busy typing in your promotional code to download the Black Emporium, I wouldn't waste my time trying to argue that point.

If you think you got those items for free, who am I to dispute that, only you know what you paid for the game or not. I certainly didn't get them "free" as they were carrot sticks to pre-ordering or buying the game before one could actually go online to register and play it. I think it was unfair for those who waited, by making them have to buy the DLCs, just to get use of them, because they didn't pre-order or buy before the release date, and that may have hurt their sales numbers somewhat.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 30 avril 2011 - 06:25 .

[Tommy6860]

Exzander1 wrote...

Kilshrek wrote...

Exzander and Plaintiff, you both make good points but what I was saying is that Valve got slammed by their "fans" for supposedly offering day 1 DLC(which is false), and for making a short game sold at full price(which is true if you don't consider the quality of time you spend playing a game) and still decided to hand out free DLC. Which adds quite a fair bit of content it would seem.

Bioware is under no obligation to give us free DLC or anything, yes, but considering the effort they seem to be putting into DLC rather than polishing the game(and please don't give me that different team argument, surely the resources could have been spent on polish or dungeon design without considering putting out DLC first), and now with this appearance pack which adds nothing significant to the game, goodwill has been eroded in certain parts of the player base. If you're going to accuse me of being ungrateful or feeling entitled then I'll live with it and lose no sleep over it, but I feel that Bioware does have an obligation to make an effort to restore goodwill where it has been lost. The Exiled Prince is SE only, how many people had their SE's cancelled due to someone's incompetence(no blame in any particular direction, just those people who stuffed up SE orders).

We can agree to disagree, but I think Bioware as a whole needs to do a little more work for the community here. Entitlement?

The thing is, Dragon Age isn't a 5 hour game, it's a 30-40 hour game with loads of content, and, there are even people who have spent 70 hours playing it (such as Darksydephil on youtube, his playthrough runs at 70 hours, if you wanted proof). The game, for many people, runs perfectly well, as I said I never experienced a single glitch or bug with 2 plays through the game.

DA2 is not a 30-40 hours game unless you do the needless fedex quests,w hich you almost have to do anyway as the game forces it.. If you just do the main plots and were able to earn enough gold, you could get through the game in about 20hrs. But, the game forces you into onerous side quests that have little bearing on the main plot, because you have to earn enough gold to be able to gete into the DRs. Aside from that, when you discover locations and they show your map menu, you cannot fast travel. To get to the map, and many times, you literally have to walk to a complete end on a given area or backtrack to the beginning of certain caves to use the maps; this alone adds time to the game play stats.