347 réponses à ce sujet

[Texhnolyze101]

il get all the dlc when or IF they decide to make a UE like they did for DAO if they don't than i guess il just never have any DA2 dlc

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ariella wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

@Ariella: The pyramid has become too big, so I'll continue here.

That additional free content and great service also creates goodwill and brand loyalty. I think it is a good idea for companies to try to go back to more service. Not because there are a lot of fools like me that pay for a game more than once (twice for TW1 and trice for X3:TC), but if the economy is part of the problem then maybe it would be wise to keep your customers by providing that service, instead of annoying them further.

I'll agree that the pyramid was getting a tinsy bit unwieldy .

My father owns his own company (yes this plays in) and he's been known to drive all night to deliver product or meeting with his customers, then drive back. He's insane, but the company's been doing well, despite the economy. So I agree with you. Unfortunately, I'm not sure sure if any notice from any of us could change that. Since RPGs are a small market in the first place. Hell, I'm just glad we still have a market.

I understand that your loyalty to BW has grown over the years. What keeps me here are some people on these forums and the chance that one head might turn by what I post (and that chance may approach zero - I know). My loyalty to BW is currently limited to some devs on my friend list. The bad DA:O patch support, DA2's state and Arrival being devoid of RPG didn't actually make me happy so to speak.

Edit: Oh! And I forgot FemShep. She keeps me here as well.

I haven't played Arrival yet, so I can't comment. But I'll agree FemShep keeps me here to. Voted in the poll btw

Whether or not we can change that, I am not sure. If nobody talks about it and we only defend BW then obviously nothing will change. I am here anyway, so if the subject pops up I can at least write what I think about it.

If you haven't played Arrival yet then maybe you should to experience what I mean.

Come to think of FemShep... It is an example of what can be done. People like rynluna and other key members of the group or posters like Captain Crash did accomplish that BW at least knows that FemShep is more popular than they thought. They have put her on the map. Not that the work is done, because BW obviously doesn't want to comment on it other than they said recently that they know FemShep is very popular. Making promises and follow up on them costs money. It's a kind of peaceful resistance on the group's part. Post about it and lobby when you can. BTW: Thanks for voting.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 30 avril 2011 - 06:46 .

[Fernando Melo]

Rather than reposting it all again, i'll just include a link below to some feedback on the more common questions I've seen come up so far if that helps.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/260/index/7215354/31#7255515

[dano525k]

I personally think it is tacky to release the items packs when the game itself is still such a buggy mess for some people.  Yes, I understand that it's different teams but it is the same company after all...those "teams" share an image and reputation.

Also, is it so bad that people are hopeful that BW will do something to show they are sorry for the things they didn't have time to do?  As an example, a free dlc that adds new maps so you're not staring at the same cave over and over again....things like that, you know, stuff BW cut corners on to get everyone's money sooner.  Maybe even some free item packs, since the game was kind of lacking in that department too...oh wait...that's right, those are things BW charges for these days.  Well nevermind the map idea then...unless there's money to be made why would they bother?  Then again, there probably are many people who'd buy that as well.

I'll admit I'd like to make the same/more money for less work done.  Don't know that I'd feel good about it at the end of the day though. 

Modifié par dano525k, 30 avril 2011 - 08:16 .

[Elhanan]

Fernando Melo wrote...

Rather than reposting it all again, i'll just include a link below to some feedback on the more common questions I've seen come up so far if that helps.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/260/index/7215354/31#7255515

Thanks for the link!

[Kilshrek]

Exzander1 wrote...

The thing is, Dragon Age isn't a 5 hour game, it's a 30-40 hour game with loads of content, and, there are even people who have spent 70 hours playing it (such as Darksydephil on youtube, his playthrough runs at 70 hours, if you wanted proof). The game, for many people, runs perfectly well, as I said I never experienced a single glitch or bug with 2 plays through the game.

They should be working on a patch to fix whater bugs/issues the game has, and we as their customers deserve to get these things fixed. However, a free DLC for a game that can run up to 70 hours and is about 40 hours on average, a game that already gave us many things like the black emporium/skill books/weapons on release date for free as well as a free high res texture pack, which they did not need to release, they could have just kept the textures as is, etc, is just not required nore expected in any way shape or form. Even without all those free things, they still wouldn't owe us a free DLC.

Summary:

Portal 2 is not really a good example, as the game really is half-assed in the sense that it's 5 hours long and is sold at full price. A free DLC makes up for it some. Dragon Age 2,  a 40-70 hour game that a vast amount of people can/do play without many issues (this forum is by far the minority), which also gave us free weapons, the black emporium, the dog, as well as a free high res texture pack on release (can't remember if the res pack was on release or not), does not need to hand out a free DLC, even if there are bugs/glitches that need resolved.

I will say, though, as I did in my first post, they should have postponed any DLC and worked only on a patch for the bugs/glitches, that makes a lot of sense and is required if some people cannot enjoy the game fully without it.

As I've also said in my other post, that was the best time I had playing a game since the first. I specifically mentioned quality of time spent. It is also a full 8 hour game, not a half assed 5 hours full price. Incidentally I bought it off Steam for $45, short of half of the $88 I paid for DA 2. To me I got value for money on my purchase. I agree fully that there are bugs that need to be fixed, I've had several times where combat ends and I would have a character permanently selected, forcing me to restart the game. That is really no big deal but just an annoying thing. I've also had the game crash several times, but that has been rare.

On the issue of length I honestly don't know how anyone can stretch the game out to 70 hours, proof is all good and well, and good on them for spinning it out, though I know I couldn't stomach 70 hours of nonsensical wave combat and deliberately invulnerable bosses.

My issue on the DLC front, which is covered by Fernando Melo, is that the timing of these item packs is probably not the greatest, especially since there are bugs that need to be fixed and a story dlc would be so much more meaningful, but it's their baby to treat as they see fit.

Again I never said Bioware was OBLIGATED(in case it's not clear enough for some people), but DA 2 isn't exactly crash hot right now, and there are a good number of people out there panning it (vocal minority if it makes you feel any better about yourself) and if sales numbers are to be believed the game isn't really selling well too. Why wouldn't free DLC be the boost DA 2 needs? They gave ME 2 free, but then again most people who owned DA 2 were likely to be owners of ME 2 as well, so that just means that ME 2 gets into the hands of friends. Incidentally I wonder how much the ME 2 giveaway boosted DA 2 sales.

Elhanan wrote...

Yep; entitlement. Your second para simply dismisses the notion that
different teams and indv perform different tasks. I like David as a
writer, Stan as QA Ninja, and CP as Evil PR Overlord; doesn't mean I
want them writing code, making armors, or implementing weapons. If so,
we would have nerf items: noodles, trout, HK-47... maybe it ain't all
bad.

Just because you FEEL Bioware has lost goodwill and owes us something does not equate that to FACT.

At what point did I ever say DG/ML/SW/CP should be working on code? I fully understand that different people have different roles, especially writers and evil marketing men. I implied that teams working on DLC could probably have been bumped into helping with QA or perhaps pointing out politely that this dungeon is exactly the same as that one, y'know the one we were just in 20 mins ago.

And I don't feel Bioware has lost goodwill, I read that Bioware has lost goodwill among gamers, certainly not a universal thing otherwise nobody would be bothered to come here and defend the game, but on other gaming sites there are people who dislike DA 2's direction, this isn't a vocal minority site, nor are the people who are disappointed in DA 2 a minority. It's not a game to hate, but it's not a game to love either.

[grey_savant]

Agree. This a poor time to expect us to buy more DLC. I feel an apology is due, mainly in the form of revamped dungeon designs.

[YohkoOhno]

One of the problems of these DLC arguments is that I don't think they are aimed at the company, but rather people get mad that a large segment of the fan base actually pay for this. I see these arguments with Valve and other DLC stuff. The rise of Flash and Facebook games that use virtual economies and goods has really gotten a segment of the traditional gaming audience mad.

As far as the goodwill argument goes--I don't think Bioware should create a free apology download. The game may be disappointing, but it's the equivalent of going from 5 stars to 3.5 stars. The only time I'd advocate for free fixes/expansions would be if there released something that was packed with game-breaking bugs. From what I've seen, this hasn't been--some minor ones have come up, it wasn't like Elemental. It was still entertaining and I felt I got my money's worth, but I also agree that it comes up shorter than it could have been.

[Cybermortis]

I can understand why BW released an equipment DLC, now that I've read the linked post above by Fernando Melo.

Simple questions for the DLC haters;

1; Is there someone holding a gun to your head/significant other/children/loved pet threatening to start shooting if you don't buy the DLC?

2; Would you like more half-assed content in the game. Or would you be happier if you had to wait for something of higher quality?


Note; The high texture pack is NOT a 'free DLC', nor is it any sort of DLC. It is basically a patch - and arguably something that should have been in the released game from the start.

[PirateT138]

Spit in the face. This solidifies that I will not ever buy a piece of DA2 DLC.

Releasing this crap and then asking me to PAY for it (when you already released such a mediocre, broken game) is insulting. A little good will (making it stupid cheap or free) would have gone a long way.

[88mphSlayer]

PirateT138 wrote...

Spit in the face. This solidifies that I will not ever buy a piece of DA2 DLC.

Releasing this crap and then asking me to PAY for it (when you already released such a mediocre, broken game) is insulting. A little good will (making it stupid cheap or free) would have gone a long way.

Bioware asked you to buy dlc?

[Exzander1]

Kilshrek wrote...

Exzander1 wrote...

The thing is, Dragon Age isn't a 5 hour game, it's a 30-40 hour game with loads of content, and, there are even people who have spent 70 hours playing it (such as Darksydephil on youtube, his playthrough runs at 70 hours, if you wanted proof). The game, for many people, runs perfectly well, as I said I never experienced a single glitch or bug with 2 plays through the game.

They should be working on a patch to fix whater bugs/issues the game has, and we as their customers deserve to get these things fixed. However, a free DLC for a game that can run up to 70 hours and is about 40 hours on average, a game that already gave us many things like the black emporium/skill books/weapons on release date for free as well as a free high res texture pack, which they did not need to release, they could have just kept the textures as is, etc, is just not required nore expected in any way shape or form. Even without all those free things, they still wouldn't owe us a free DLC.

Summary:

Portal 2 is not really a good example, as the game really is half-assed in the sense that it's 5 hours long and is sold at full price. A free DLC makes up for it some. Dragon Age 2,  a 40-70 hour game that a vast amount of people can/do play without many issues (this forum is by far the minority), which also gave us free weapons, the black emporium, the dog, as well as a free high res texture pack on release (can't remember if the res pack was on release or not), does not need to hand out a free DLC, even if there are bugs/glitches that need resolved.

I will say, though, as I did in my first post, they should have postponed any DLC and worked only on a patch for the bugs/glitches, that makes a lot of sense and is required if some people cannot enjoy the game fully without it.

As I've also said in my other post, that was the best time I had playing a game since the first. I specifically mentioned quality of time spent. It is also a full 8 hour game, not a half assed 5 hours full price. Incidentally I bought it off Steam for $45, short of half of the $88 I paid for DA 2. To me I got value for money on my purchase. I agree fully that there are bugs that need to be fixed, I've had several times where combat ends and I would have a character permanently selected, forcing me to restart the game. That is really no big deal but just an annoying thing. I've also had the game crash several times, but that has been rare.

On the issue of length I honestly don't know how anyone can stretch the game out to 70 hours, proof is all good and well, and good on them for spinning it out, though I know I couldn't stomach 70 hours of nonsensical wave combat and deliberately invulnerable bosses.

My issue on the DLC front, which is covered by Fernando Melo, is that the timing of these item packs is probably not the greatest, especially since there are bugs that need to be fixed and a story dlc would be so much more meaningful, but it's their baby to treat as they see fit.

Again I never said Bioware was OBLIGATED(in case it's not clear enough for some people), but DA 2 isn't exactly crash hot right now, and there are a good number of people out there panning it (vocal minority if it makes you feel any better about yourself) and if sales numbers are to be believed the game isn't really selling well too. Why wouldn't free DLC be the boost DA 2 needs? They gave ME 2 free, but then again most people who owned DA 2 were likely to be owners of ME 2 as well, so that just means that ME 2 gets into the hands of friends. Incidentally I wonder how much the ME 2 giveaway boosted DA 2 sales.

I beat portal 2 in about 4 and a half hours. If it took you 8 hours, you must have struggled a lot with some of the puzzles. If you are adding co-op, I don't consider co-op part of the main game. Many, many, many people don't have friends with the same console that also bought portal 2, or many people don't play online, or many people don't even like co-op in general and thus only play the single player game. The meat of any game (unless it's made to be an online game) is the single player expeirence, and the single player experience is about 5 hours long and is far, far, far too short to even consider a purchase from me, especially when it has 0 replay value unless you have alzheimer's and forget how to do the puzzles after beating them.

It took me almost 40 hours my first play, and about 25-30 hours my second in DA2. There definitely are people who have spent 50+ hours on the game easily, and as I said, if you youtube DSPgaming's Dragon Age 2 video walkthrough, he comes in at 70 hours, and I'm sure he's not the only one. You personally might not have spent a lot of time with it, but that does not matter. Just 'casue a small minotiry of people are upset and didn't get a lot of content out of it, doesn't mean you or any of these people in the minority should in any way shape or form get a free DLC, or anything free outside of a patch to fix bugs.

As for them doing it for sales, it's up to them. It's their product, their money, their business model. As you said, it's "their baby". So, what's the purpose of them even considering a free DLC if they don't want to? They don't owe anything to their customers, they put out a product (DA2), if you buy it good, if you don't that's okay too, but just because you buy something doesn't mean you should get free additional content if you're not happy with it. Keep in mind, I'm not saying you are saying Bioware is obligated to give us free DLC or putting words in your mouth or any such thing - I'm making a general statment that everyone here bought a product, many like it/love it, some don't like it/love it, that happens to every game anywhere. The game has bugs, so did Fallout New Vegas and countless other games, and just because it has bugs or isn't as good as one thought, does not mean in any way that they should give out a free DLC unless Bioware feels like it for whatever reason, and if they don't, then they are doing the same thing about 90% of all game devs do, which is not give out free DLC.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Sadly this seems to be a trend in the entire industry. Civilization 5 came out with an entire civilization as a DLC at the same time as the game was released.

[Bhatair]

I think I'm done with Bioware.
Never thought I'd say that.

[Elhanan]

PirateT138 wrote...

Spit in the face. This solidifies that I will not ever buy a piece of DA2 DLC.

Releasing this crap and then asking me to PAY for it (when you already released such a mediocre, broken game) is insulting. A little good will (making it stupid cheap or free) would have gone a long way.

Same might be said about many of the ill-conceived replies going their way....

[Cybermortis]

Bhatair wrote...

I think I'm done with Bioware.
Never thought I'd say that.

Because of one poor game? Or because of the DLC/Marketing of the game?

In the first case I'd point out that no games company has a perfect record, either for the quality of its titles or for bugs in released games, or for that matter in not pushing games out of the door before they are really finished. The Witcher was horrifically bugged on released, as was Fallout 3/NV. While Knights of the Old Republic 2 was rushed so badly there are incomplete plot-lines and at least one missing planet.

The DLC and Marketing? Nothing new here at all. Everything BW has done in this regards it did for Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins.
Funny how people seem to forget that.


Unless you happen to have a time machine boycotting all future Bioware titles on the basis of Dragon Age 2 is just daft. There were people who no doubt said the exact same thing after Jade Empire was released, yet Bioware followed that with Mass Effect 1, Dragon Age Origins and then Mass Effect 2. The next (known) Bioware titles will be the STMMO and then Mass Effect 3 - both games show considerable promise basied on all the information we have. That doesn't mean either will be great games, they might well be turkeys in their own right. But nor does it follow that they WILL be turkeys because of DA2.

Refusing to pre-order Bioware titles is reasonable, and the line a lot of people seem to be taking, as is waiting to see what the after released reviews say about the games. Refusing to buy any Bioware titles at all is something else entirely. By this logic every PC user should still be using Windows 98 since Windows 2000 was a total mess.

[Siansonea]

So wait, 11 pages of b¡tching and moaning over optional content that costs as little as $5? For Pete's sake, kids, get a paper route or something. Babysit. It's $5. And it's optional. Forgo a trip to McDonalds, or forgo the DLC. So much rant for something so minor.

[Cybermortis]

Siansonea II wrote...

So wait, 11 pages of b¡tching and moaning over optional content that costs as little as $5? For Pete's sake, kids, get a paper route or something. Babysit. It's $5. And it's optional. Forgo a trip to McDonalds, or forgo the DLC. So much rant for something so minor.

Agreed.

Apart from anything else no one is FORCING anyone to buy the DLC.


Unless that is what the Dev team we were told were 'lurking' have really been doing....

[88mphSlayer]

Siansonea II wrote...

So wait, 11 pages of b¡tching and moaning over optional content that costs as little as $5? For Pete's sake, kids, get a paper route or something. Babysit. It's $5. And it's optional. Forgo a trip to McDonalds, or forgo the DLC. So much rant for something so minor.

$100+ pre-order junk-pile? 

$5 junk-pile dlc? 

[neppakyo]

I thought the main complaint was releasing an item DLC before the game was fixed. Since quite a few are still having problems playing it. (DRM etc) Also, with the bad vibes against DA2, one of these DLC packs kinda adds fuel to the fire of negativity.

Just sayin'

[IndigoWolfe]

No! A company wants you to buy something from them! Where do they get the gall to do this?

[88mphSlayer]

neppakyo wrote...

I thought the main complaint was releasing an item DLC before the game was fixed. Since quite a few are still having problems playing it. (DRM etc) Also, with the bad vibes against DA2, one of these DLC packs kinda adds fuel to the fire of negativity.

Just sayin'

i think it's idiotic, vibes or not

i get the people who complain about DLC in general regardless of the quality of the game it's for, i have a hard time understanding the people who would buy similar DLC for other games and complain about it being released for this... do people think video games exist in a vacuum?

[Siansonea]

neppakyo wrote...

I thought the main complaint was releasing an item DLC before the game was fixed. Since quite a few are still having problems playing it. (DRM etc) Also, with the bad vibes against DA2, one of these DLC packs kinda adds fuel to the fire of negativity.

Just sayin'

Negativity needs no fuel, it feeds on itself. Does BioWare need to fix some things? They sure do. Does an angry mob of villagers with digital pitchforks and binary torches saying "BioWare Sux!" help that process along in any way? I'd say no. If anything, such obvious ire would lead to a belief that such customers are beyond reclaiming, and if anything should be written off entirely from a product planning and review standpoint. BioWare is not going to woo them back to the franchise after this. Better to focus on the people who have a less-then-stellar opinion of the game, but also are fair-minded enough to acknowledge the things about the game that they like. Or people like myself, who mostly liked the game, but can see several areas of improvement (a feeling I also have about the two Mass Effect games). Purely negative and purely positive feedback is almost always useless. But I don't think any of this firestorm is for BioWare's benefit, it is just unhappy people wanting to let everyone around them know that they're Mad And Not Gonna Take It Anymore™.

[Maugrim]

And not releasing the DLC won't make the patches come any faster.  The two things aren't even related in any meaningful manner. EA doesn't going to give Bioware zots to whatever the hell they want to do with them.  It's budgeted for DLC.  No DLC means EA just keeps the zots.

Or it's all just a conspiracy theory amirite? <_<

[Robtachi]

Siansonea II wrote...

So wait, 11 pages of b¡tching and
moaning over optional content that costs as little as $5? For Pete's
sake, kids, get a paper route or something. Babysit. It's $5. And it's
optional. Forgo a trip to McDonalds, or forgo the DLC. So much rant for
something so minor.

Replies like this prove positive you fail to or refuse to glean the purpose of this discussion. Why bother posting at all if you're not going to give your fellow posters the consideration their replies ask for?


To all of you defending Bioware's release of DLC as if everything with DAII were functioning normally, let me ask this:  would you have honestly criticized them for NOT releasing DLC until the game were fully playable for everyone? Or if they had released some complimentary content while some of us wait for the next patch to drop? Why do I feel like the same detractors who seem to want to treat us as if we are a bunch of outraged hysterical babies (and by the way, strawmanning people in what is supposed to be a reasonable discussion is one of the most infuriatingly stupid tactics to resort to in pushing your personal agenda and point across) would be in here praising Bioware for taking the high ground on what is unfortunately a more and more common practice of turning a blind eye to QA in favor of making the extra buck?  Who among you could honestly say that would have been a worse idea than releasing cheaply made DLC for a tidy profit when the product itself has still not been sufficiently patched?