347 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

88mphSlayer wrote...

uh huh

i have a car for sale

care to yell at me too?

That depends. Do I get the whole car? Or do I just get the bare bones to make it drivable and then have to pay 'small, easily affordable' sums every month to get the rest?

If it's the whole car, radio (or whatever medium it is), antennae, AC, heater, glove compartment lid, etc., then we're good.

[Kilshrek]

Plaintiff wrote...

No, and I don't plan to. My "point" was merely an observation of how posters in this thread and others are grossly exaggerating the value of $5.

I think the argument is more on the principle rather than the price. Of course that's just my opinion and if people are whinging about the DLC being priced at $5 when it should be less or whatever then that's their problem. But as data shows people are indeed willing to fork over $5 for items that don't seem to be worth all that much especially since only the PC can use them. More fool them, or more fool us?("Us" probably doesn't include you Plaintiff but you get the idea)

[v_ware]

Robtachi wrote...

Seriously? After the tremendous outcry from the fanbase for some sort of compensation for the (now) months of waiting on patches to fix game breaking bugs, glitches and freezes, we get...

Three item packs, each of which include one set of armor and a weapon, for $3 each, a la Mass Effect.*

*worth mentioning though not altogether related that it is disturbing to see just how much DAII is borrowing from ME's success, rather than being left to make its own way as a franchise.

Since Dragon Age II's release, Bioware fans and forum users have been crying out for some sort of recognition of our aguish at a product that is universally accepted as having been pushed out the door too quickly.  Some indication that Bioware - a developer that would not and could not exist were it not for well over a decade of zealous dedication, hundreds of dollars worth of games purchased and thousands of hours spent playing those games by its loyal fans - acknowledges and appreciates we, the players.  No such luck.

I would like to point out something I found incredibly telling that I read only moments after seeing news about the new DLC:

David Gaider wrote...

It's true that some people seem
intent on making the forums pretty toxic. As someone pointed out above,
however, we're pretty much used to filtering out the extremes of
opinion-- for the most part I think it's safe to assume that fans are so
passionate because they care, and that those who engage in gross
hyperbole do so because they either believe this makes their opinion
more convincing or because they think that shouting above everyone else
is the only way to get heard.

That doesn't mean their problems
don't exist. We recognize that. At the same time, it doesn't exactly
make it an environment where we can engage in much discussion-- if
discussion is actually desired, which sadly doesn't seem to always be
the case.

What's good is that there are people who do make a
point of expressing their concerns in a thoughtful and intelligent
manner despite all the static. We are reading them, and while
some folks seem to take anything positive being said about DA2 as a
blanket dismissal of anyone who didn't enjoy it, that's really not the
truth. It's silly to say that no-one has issues just as it's silly to
say everyone did. As always, we'll look at the feedback and take it into
consideration as we move forward-- there's really not much more to say
at this point, other than announcements will be forthcoming from those
who make such things (which is not me).

Just so we are clear, this is in no way an attack on David Gaider in any form whatsoever, so please do NOT allow your input to degrade to that impertinent and ultimately unhelpful level.  As the Lead Writer we are all well aware he has little to do if anything at all with the manner in which DLC is released.  He simply happens to be the one making a point which I feel screams out for illumination.

I try very hard, as do most others, I feel, as a fan base to not speak in wild hyperbole and mutually destructive emotional extremes.  As Mr. Gaider says, that is no way to be heard and taken seriously.

The problem is, frankly sometimes Bioware makes it really damn hard not to, with this as a perfect example.  In a virtually unanimous voice, we have been calling for some sort of indication that Bioware, as Mr. Gaider claims they do, does actually care what their fans want and believe is fair and in the best interest of the franchise.  And yet, while some of us are STILL waiting to take our pre-ordered or release date copies of DAII off the shelf, dust them off, and finally continue with our campaign, we are given the first DLC which amounts to little more than the addition and installation of a few extra lines of code and some low resolution textures.  And what's more, we are expected to pay $9; well more than the Return to Ostagar DLC for Origins which could certainly be argued was something that significantly enriched the playing experience.

Some of us asked for a free first DLC.  Some of us asked for something in-depth to add to the story.  But the underlying theme in what was typically a common request was that whatever Bioware did next, they make it worth our trouble.  Make it worthwhile, show us that you do listen and you do care, and we can all make an effort in kind to be reasonable and patient.

I cannot state this plainly and without bias enough, but this is the dead wrong message to send to your loyalists. "By the way, your game still may not work, but in the mean time, buy this extra thing that while interesting is utterly superficial."  I am sorry, but that is not good enough.  That's not even good.  It's awful.

I am loathe to speak in such extremes because it is the shortest path to being ignored, but when being shown this level of disregard, you can only react with what is natural and what you feel is fair.

And in my fair opinion, it feels like Bioware has just hacked a metaphorical loogie right in my eye.  Again.


Ignore me if you wish.  If you feel my opinions are too hyperbolic, then it is your prerogative and responsibility to do ignore them.  But it does not change the fact that the feeling is there, and it is very, very real.

I agree with your points, since I to am a seriously dissapointed fan. But David Gaiders comment didn't have much to do with DLC.

[Perles75]

Ariella wrote...

Robtachi wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Ultima VIII.

Now you can start the part about EA.

And you know what? Fans of Ultima would have every bit the right to demand and expect recompense from the developer for a product released technologically underdeveloped yet sold as finished.  Furthermore, where is the Ultima franchise now?  Pretty much non-existent, no?  Maybe these issues contributed to that, maybe not, but that fact does not exactly lend support to a counter-argument that this kind of practice is acceptable.

What contributed to the Ultima franchise disappearing is the rise of the MMO abomination called UO.

And the horrid thing that was Ultima IX ^^
Anyway, one should remember that the Ultima series went on for 9 games (and 19 years), plus a couple of spinoffs... not really the good comparison for the DA franchise.

On the DLC: I find it uninteresting and thus I won't buy it, but I really don't understand why it should be free

Modifié par Perles75, 01 mai 2011 - 09:54 .

[Snelle Jaap]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

If you didn't enjoy DA2 in the first place, a few extra sets of armour and some weapon aren't gonna change anything.

Just saying

Indeed.

Wel if is was for free i might be looking to play Da2 again, not for long i guess there just some items in a world  FULL of items
And DAnexus got LOOTS of items for free to :happy:

Modifié par Snelle Jaap, 01 mai 2011 - 01:15 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Perles75 wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Robtachi wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Ultima VIII.

Now you can start the part about EA.

And you know what? Fans of Ultima would have every bit the right to demand and expect recompense from the developer for a product released technologically underdeveloped yet sold as finished.  Furthermore, where is the Ultima franchise now?  Pretty much non-existent, no?  Maybe these issues contributed to that, maybe not, but that fact does not exactly lend support to a counter-argument that this kind of practice is acceptable.

What contributed to the Ultima franchise disappearing is the rise of the MMO abomination called UO.

And the horrid thing that was Ultima IX ^^
Anyway, one should remember that the Ultima series went on for 9 games (and 19 years), plus a couple of spinoffs... not really the good comparison for the DA franchise.

 

On a somewhat related note Ultima IX was so bugged and bad on release that they sent all owners an actual replacement disk and an apology. It didn't help.

So at a certain point you just need to sigh, give it up, and launch your creator into space....


*waits for it*

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 01 mai 2011 - 01:18 .

[88mphSlayer]

Sabriana wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

uh huh

i have a car for sale

care to yell at me too?

That depends. Do I get the whole car? Or do I just get the bare bones to make it drivable and then have to pay 'small, easily affordable' sums every month to get the rest?

If it's the whole car, radio (or whatever medium it is), antennae, AC, heater, glove compartment lid, etc., then we're good.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes

still needs some work, that's honest advertising

similarly, this DLC item pack is honest advertising as well

[Alex109222]

Let's all go out and buy it! Oh Bioware please make more half an hour DLC please! I will pay £15 for it! Please can I have a picnic scene with My Anders on sundermont less than three ecks dee ecks dee.

[Ariella]

Perles75 wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Robtachi wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Ultima VIII.

Now you can start the part about EA.

And you know what? Fans of Ultima would have every bit the right to demand and expect recompense from the developer for a product released technologically underdeveloped yet sold as finished.  Furthermore, where is the Ultima franchise now?  Pretty much non-existent, no?  Maybe these issues contributed to that, maybe not, but that fact does not exactly lend support to a counter-argument that this kind of practice is acceptable.

What contributed to the Ultima franchise disappearing is the rise of the MMO abomination called UO.

And the horrid thing that was Ultima IX ^^
Anyway, one should remember that the Ultima series went on for 9 games (and 19 years), plus a couple of spinoffs... not really the good comparison for the DA franchise.

On the DLC: I find it uninteresting and thus I won't buy it, but I really don't understand why it should be free

Thing is until Ultima 6, it was a different time. You're not going to tell me Ultima 2 is comperable in programming to DA2. Systems weren't as complex, and neither were the player demands on the game. And I should have said that UO was the final dagger. Ultima 8 was lousy too, and then of course IX and the announcement of UO (which had nothing in commmon with the series except the locale).

[Morroian]

Sabriana wrote...

And then $ 5 more for the next one. And then $ 5 more for # 3, and so on, and so on. It's called being nickeled and dimed to death. For the price of DLC item pack # 1 and DLC item pack # 2 I can get a whole game.

So don't buy it its not like its essential to the game. 

Sabriana wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

uh huh

i have a car for sale

care to yell at me too?

That depends. Do I get the whole car? Or do I just get the bare bones to make it drivable and then have to pay 'small, easily affordable' sums every month to get the rest?

If it's the whole car, radio (or whatever medium it is), antennae, AC, heater, glove compartment lid, etc., then we're good.

That analogy doesn't hold. LIke I said above you got the complete game the DLC is just cream on top. 

Modifié par Morroian, 01 mai 2011 - 09:58 .

[Morroian]

Elhanan wrote...

You have just helped insure that at least one here will never try that other game, if only due to the callous representation shown here, as well as quoting remarks from one company that insult another. And AFAIK, without the Bioware engine, they would have no game. Quite the professionals....

I'm boycotting it as well not so much for CDProjekt themselves, although I do dislike the holier than thou thing they have going (especially given then are using DRM in disc versions of TW2), but mainly because of the behaviour of Witcher fans on here.

[neppakyo]

Thats pretty immature. As immature as constant witcher promotion people. (I've mentioned it a few times, to compare NPC's and such, to add to arguments, not to promote - usually )

"I'm not buying this game 'cause some people on bioware forums are pushing it"

And DRM is pushed by the publishers mainly, not the devs. They did try to limit the DRM, but im not a fan of it. Also you can get DRM free copy from gog.

[Robtachi]

Sabriana wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

uh huh

i have a car for sale

care to yell at me too?

That depends. Do I get the whole car? Or do I just get the bare bones to make it drivable and then have to pay 'small, easily affordable' sums every month to get the rest?

If it's the whole car, radio (or whatever medium it is), antennae, AC, heater, glove compartment lid, etc., then we're good.

Booyah!

[Persephone]

Morroian wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

You have just helped insure that at least one here will never try that other game, if only due to the callous representation shown here, as well as quoting remarks from one company that insult another. And AFAIK, without the Bioware engine, they would have no game. Quite the professionals....

I'm boycotting it as well not so much for CDProjekt themselves, although I do dislike the holier than thou thing they have going (especially given then are using DRM in disc versions of TW2), but mainly because of the behaviour of Witcher fans on here.

I'm not boycotting it but I am very much on the fence. The videos (Gameplay) I've seen so far don't capture my imagination as TW EE did and I hate the Geralt Redesign and the voice they gave him. (The original was spot on) People are already grumbling about TW2, I'm expecting another "OMGZ they killed da RPG genre!" round once it comes out. I will play it though and happily admit it if I'm wrong. If I'm right I won't participate in the "CDPR sold their souls to the devil!" hoopla though.:innocent:

[The Earl Of Bronze]

The new DLC was really nice, its only 400 points for all three item sets, got it straight away, like the idea of more level up items, gives you the option of keeping a weapon if you like the look of it without it becoming too weak later in the game.

[Sabriana]

I'm against the whole scheme of DLC. From any company. That's why I don't buy them, ever. And I repeat: From any company. I love DA:O, but I have no DLC for it, except for what came with the game.

However, if they ever tell me that it is purely optional, but contains things I, personally, consider vital, such as companion customization, I'll get a bit cranky. It all depends on what people consider integral to the genre. If something that should have been part of the base game, and is thereafter released as DLC, then people will get upset. It's normal. No, they've not done that yet, I know that. But the way things are shaping up with almost all games, I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Sad, but not surprised.

Yes, I know that the item DLC doesn't offer companion alternate armor. I did think so after reading the advertisement, but realized quickly that it was worded very ambiguously. Yes, you can give the companions the baubles, but you can't give them the armor. It wasn't stated clearly, especially when just glanced at.

Again, for clarity. I don't buy DLC. Ever. Not from ANY game company. I know it's optional, and I opt to not buy. No, they'll not weep after my piddly few euros, but heck, I feel good. Win/win all around.

But I do understand the grumblings, and I can actually see it coming that games are sold piece-meal, with important parts (plot-dependent, lore dependent, etc) left out and offered later for sale. I hope when that happens, people will vote with their wallets and stop this. We'll have to wait and see.

[Lumikki]

I'm not agaist idea of DLC. I mean it's fine. How ever, I'm agaist what DLC does for games and player gaming experience. DLC's have two problems.

1. DRM what requires online connection to company everytime you start the game.
- There is no reason to check DRM all the time. Ones after installation is enough.

2. Selling addional features in DLC, what should have been in the main game in first place.
- This can cause that games are rushed early and selled with lacking main game features.

[Morroian]

neppakyo wrote...

Thats pretty immature. As immature as constant witcher promotion people. (I've mentioned it a few times, to compare NPC's and such, to add to arguments, not to promote - usually )

"I'm not buying this game 'cause some people on bioware forums are pushing it"

Don't see how its immature unless I trumpet it and I've mentioned it probably twice now. Perhaps you weren't here during the DA2 development when there were countless posts on TW2 trumpeting how it was going to be far better than DA2, now that was immature.

[Sabriana]

Say what? DRM in DLC? Oh boy. I didn't even know that. Oh well. Sadly, I'm not too surprised.

I'm against the scheme because the road to cutting out vital elements of the base game is cut too short, and the cross-over line is too blurred.

For example:
Sebastian. No, I don't have the DLC, nor will I get it. That said, I do think that he was in the game at first. I can't prove it, it's simply a feeling. The Chantry board is oddly implemented without Sebastian. It has a grand total of 2 quests on it, and one of them is game-play dependent - I think, though I'm not sure. The other quest is, imo, silly. It has no substance at all. It's a "go there, find that, kill it" quest without any satisfactory explanation at its conclusion.

To me, personally it feels like this:

"We need release day DLC.
Cut out Sebastian.
We can't cut the board, because of [insert reason, such as graphics, programming, scripting, etc.]
Stick two shallow quests on it.
Done
Profit

Sorry, I know I can't prove it. It's simply a gut feeling I get when I see the Sebastian DLC and the Chantry board. It might not be true, but it could be. That is cutting it too close to my worry that DLC will soon be vital base-game parts that will be sold separately. Perhaps I'm paranoid, who knows.

NOTE: The above is my personal opinion, feelings, tastes, etc. only. Your mileage may vary.

[Sussurus]

I'm a tad suprised on finding the items are leveled.

Honestly with DA:2 I would have liked this as standard, given the limited armour sets.
And especially lack of full sets tended to make the appearance of the PC wonky or a choice between looks and power.

Given that every time I get the champions armour, even if at the start of chapter 3.
It tends to be overshadowed by normal sets found as loot soon after, it felt odd to me.

Even though I love the sets you get in DA:O and the options to match them.
Myself I'd have prefered a mirror of transformation set up, where you choose what "outfit" your pc is dressed in, from a large selection at least for DA:2 as it is.
Then have item slots that just add bonuses, armour, rune slots, whatever in the inventory UI.

I know it would not be to everyones tastes, but the "almost but not quite" DA:O equipment system we have did nothing for me.

Modifié par Sussurus, 02 mai 2011 - 11:48 .

[Sabriana]

@ PresidentCowboy

I'm not disputing that. I don't have the DLC. It just seemed odd to me, and it still does. He (Sebastian) is described as pretty awesome (voice, banter, annoyance factor, end-game, etc.) and seems like a natural addition to the crew. Especially because a certain person is taken away semi-permanently (or even permanently) at the end of act I.

Otoh, he's a rogue, and there are 2 already in game. I don't know, like I said, it's just a feeling I get. However, I'm in no way casting your opinion aside. It seems feasible as well, especially him not being flagged romance-wise, and if you say he's not an integral part of the whole, I believe you. But then again, Aveline has flirt lines and she is no true romance either.

Perhaps it's just odd to me that a permanent companion comes via an optional DLC. I know Shale was DLC, but I think that DLC was integrated into the base game, like the BE is in DA 2.

Ah well, it's likely that we never find out - one way or the other. But because you seem to have the DLC, and I don't, I'll try and talk myself into your version. It's less disturbing for me

[Sabriana]

that's funny, PresidentCowboy. I mean your description of his presence. Poor guy.

But okay. That's a good explanation, and it'll ease my mind. It makes a lot of sense. To incorporate an unfinished character into the base game would have led to sure as heck fire-storm. So it actually was a better idea to make him DLC, and therefore optional. Pretty darn clever, actually.