347 réponses à ce sujet

[LyndseyCousland]

Hear, hear @ OP

[Kajan451]

Pacifien wrote...

What matters in this thread is whether I feel people deserve compensation for Dragon Age 2. If they feel they need to be compensated because the game wasn't what they expected, then no. If they feel they need to be compensated because they have been unable to play the game in the past 2 months, then... actually, no. I could play the game on my PC which is likely on the low end of system specifications which could run the game. It wasn't perfect but nothing was game breaking such that I would be unable to access and complete most of the game. I am aware that the development team is working on patches, which need to be tested and approved for all three platforms before release.

While you made a good point at first... you totally ruined it with that last sentence.

I don't feel entitled to a free DLC, even though i think it would be a great gesture. Getting ME2 for free? Well mind you, i already HAD ME2. Most of those who complain, the fans, already had it. So it wasn't really a gesture for the fans, but an attempt to get people to buy Dragon Age 2, as a 2 for 1 Deal. Limited time offer. Without actually having most people realize its just an attempt to sell Dragon Age 2 to people who didn't care for either franchise.

But, as i spend my easter holiday with reading up on how to edit my savegame and using the mod to fix the Import problem... i have to say... no it doesn't take 2 MONTHS for the creator, who should be more familiar with the game, to fix something i, without any previous knowledge, could Fix within an afternoon, with instructions written by other players.

And you try to make it point it takes this long to produce a patch?

Also, as someone who has been playing videogames for over 20 years, i can tell you: Yes, 20 years ago you didn't really get patches, because there was no widespread ability by distributers to distribute said patches. But today, with about every 2nd or 3rd household having Internet and being able to download patches, the whole thing about DLC and Patches is a whole different story.

And its not like there are no examples of Publishers who do acknowledge that their product hasn't been up to paar and offered their paying customers some goody to keep them faithful.

Not to turn this into a pirating argument (afterall we are in the registred game owners section) but i think those companies who do turn to their legit customers and are like: "Listen, thanks for your support, we know we could have done better with more time, and know what? Now we got your money and can put in that time, to give you something for free."

I like how i could go to the CD Project site and download the enhanced edition because i bought that game. I don't see that happening here.

I don't even see Bioware putting much of an efford. All i am seeing is being told that i am having no clue about what i am supposed to want... and DLC being released, no matter how crappy it is in my opinion, before they actually finish getting the game in a working condition.

And for me... the faulty imports into the game... is game breaking. Because i bought this game for its story. There is no point in playing it if its not working as it should be.

[JaegerBane]

marshalleck wrote...
Took you long enough to get to the point. You feel you're owed something "interesting" for free because you bought the game--the same old "we're loyal, you owe us!" song and dance.

I really don't understand this mentality. You paid for a game, you got a game. The fact that the game was not to your liking doesn't mean Bioware owes you anything else. If the game is broken then sure, Bioware needs to patch it to a functional state. But even then, what you deserve is a patch, not new story content DLC for free.

You aren't a special case, and your "loyalty" doesn't make you deserving of handouts. In fact it's your "loyalty" that is probably the root cause of the problem here; you rushed out and bought a game without thinking or pausing to look at reviews or listen to word of mouth, and now you think you're owed compensation for your rash decision-making? No. This attitude of entitlement is just as sickeningly greedy as EA cashing in on the Dragon Age name by pushing shovelware out the door with 1.5 years development time. 

I agree with this. There's definite issues with DA2, and there are plenty of threads on that subject already so I won't repeat. But much as I like getting freebies, I'm struggling to understand the logic behind this sense of entitlement being thrown around here. This concept of 'loyalty' somehow being expected to confer special treatment (and free stuff) sounds absolutely ridiculous. True, if things are broken then Bioware are obliged to fix them, at least to a point where the user can experience fair use of the game.

But in this particular case, it sounds like some users have gotten it into their heads that the fact they've played Bioware stuff in the past entitles them to some kind of VIP treatment. It makes people come across like spoiled brats. It certainly doesn't encourage the reader to take the poster seriously.

The release of the new DLC seemed to be a little.... uh, naive by Bioware, true - given the kinds of grievances being made on the forums, I can't imagine anyone honestly thinking this kind of thing would help. On the other hand, though, I personally think the new Mage gear looks pretty cool

[Cutlass Jack]

"Just so we're clear, this isn't an attack on Mr. Gaider, but allow me to use his postings completely out of context on an urelated topic so when he gets to work later he'll wonder once again why he ever bother coming here and talking with us."

Nicely done, OP. Keep up the fine work.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 28 avril 2011 - 11:44 .

[Tommy6860]

Kajan451 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

What matters in this thread is whether I feel people deserve compensation for Dragon Age 2. If they feel they need to be compensated because the game wasn't what they expected, then no. If they feel they need to be compensated because they have been unable to play the game in the past 2 months, then... actually, no. I could play the game on my PC which is likely on the low end of system specifications which could run the game. It wasn't perfect but nothing was game breaking such that I would be unable to access and complete most of the game. I am aware that the development team is working on patches, which need to be tested and approved for all three platforms before release.

While you made a good point at first... you totally ruined it with that last sentence.

I don't feel entitled to a free DLC, even though i think it would be a great gesture. Getting ME2 for free? Well mind you, i already HAD ME2. Most of those who complain, the fans, already had it. So it wasn't really a gesture for the fans, but an attempt to get people to buy Dragon Age 2, as a 2 for 1 Deal. Limited time offer. Without actually having most people realize its just an attempt to sell Dragon Age 2 to people who didn't care for either franchise.

But, as i spend my easter holiday with reading up on how to edit my savegame and using the mod to fix the Import problem... i have to say... no it doesn't take 2 MONTHS for the creator, who should be more familiar with the game, to fix something i, without any previous knowledge, could Fix within an afternoon, with instructions written by other players.

And you try to make it point it takes this long to produce a patch?

Also, as someone who has been playing videogames for over 20 years, i can tell you: Yes, 20 years ago you didn't really get patches, because there was no widespread ability by distributers to distribute said patches. But today, with about every 2nd or 3rd household having Internet and being able to download patches, the whole thing about DLC and Patches is a whole different story.

And its not like there are no examples of Publishers who do acknowledge that their product hasn't been up to paar and offered their paying customers some goody to keep them faithful.

Not to turn this into a pirating argument (afterall we are in the registred game owners section) but i think those companies who do turn to their legit customers and are like: "Listen, thanks for your support, we know we could have done better with more time, and know what? Now we got your money and can put in that time, to give you something for free."

I like how i could go to the CD Project site and download the enhanced edition because i bought that game. I don't see that happening here.

I don't even see Bioware putting much of an efford. All i am seeing is being told that i am having no clue about what i am supposed to want... and DLC being released, no matter how crappy it is in my opinion, before they actually finish getting the game in a working condition.

And for me... the faulty imports into the game... is game breaking. Because i bought this game for its story. There is no point in playing it if its not working as it should be.

You made the best points here, and I'll add a point in the timeliness, or lack thereof, in fixing DA2. Anyone remember how broken Witch Hunt was when it was initially released and it didn't recognize choices made in Origins? It was fixed within a week. I remember because I got invited to test the saves for Bioware. Here, with DA2 and the import still broken regarding choices made in Origins was fixed by a modder, not by Bioware and the game recognized my choices. I agree with the OP. I don't agree that DLC should be free though.

[WardenGriff]

Kajan451 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

I don't feel entitled to a free DLC, even though i think it would be a great gesture. Getting ME2 for free? Well mind you, i already HAD ME2. Most of those who complain, the fans, already had it. So it wasn't really a gesture for the fans, but an attempt to get people to buy Dragon Age 2, as a 2 for 1 Deal. Limited time offer. Without actually having most people realize its just an attempt to sell Dragon Age 2 to people who didn't care for either franchise. 

This. I don't feel entitled to anything for free. And the ME2 ploy only serves to boost DA2 sales while possibly pulling in new players for the upcoming ME3. BW and EA are not doing this for anyone other than themselves which is their right.

Pacifien wrote...

And its not like there are no examples of Publishers who do acknowledge that their product hasn't been up to paar and offered their paying customers some goody to keep them faithful.snop,,,,, i think those companies who do turn to their legit customers and are like: "Listen, thanks for your support, we know we could have done better with more time, and know what? Now we got your money and can put in that time, to give you something for free." 

 

I was one of the FFXI fans that bought FFXIV pre launch. SE botched it so badly that they still are not charging a monthly fee for their MMO. Still SE has lost a lot of loyal cusatomers over this. 

Pacifien wrote...

I like how i could go to the CD Project site and download the enhanced edition because i bought that game. I don't see that happening here.

 

This is an example of a small developer focused on their customers. They provide a toolset and even encourage their customers to create custom advantures. Amazing.

If we see any other patches, it will be great but, I think the DA series has sustained a critical wound which disappoints me. I have enjoyed BW games. I peruse this forum and post occassionally and voice my disappointment in DA2 but, I hope that the game gets fixed and becomes better and better. I am fortunate that my disappointment in this game led me to try out TW. It is a compelling and fun game that I had missed out on.  

Cheers 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I agree! Getting Mass Effect 2 completely free to redeem or give to a friend wasn't nearly enough. I demand free weapons and armour to pimp Hawke out. PLUS I want a mount so I can travel Kirkwall in style. That or the ability to turn into a dwarf and harness a chariot to my faithful mabari. Walking is for chumps.

Really, what's with all the complaints? It's barely a month since DA2 came out, did people want another rushed story with repeated scenery? This weapons/armour thing is for people who want to pay for WEAPONS AND ARMOUR. Perhaps they should have completely witheld Sebastian's DLC and marketted that instead, so people could then complain he's a Chantry boy, he's not bi, and they can't get it on with him even if they're female.

Urgh.

(For the record I do have slight issues with DLC being provided before the game is even launched, which in my old-fashioned mind means it should be a part of the game proper, but that's another story.)

[Kajan451]

WardenGriff wrote...

This. I don't feel entitled to anything for free.

Damn well i am feeling entitled to something. Not DLCs though. An Enhanced Edition? Maybe, depends on my mood... but Patches? I feel entitled to them.

Thing is.. i keep being told by Software Companies i do not own the game. Thus they can hassle me with DRM and Online Requirements. My Goverment can send me to Jail for 5 years for applying a NO-DVD patch on my bought Game, because its cirumventing the copy protection of the game.

So if its not a Product i did buy, which i do own and after which i have no entitlement to anything... then i am buying a SERVICE. And if i am buying a service, then i am expecting them to make adjustments to said service. I expect them to fix it when the service i paid for doesn't provide what i paid for.

So either... the Game i bought is mine, then i expect not to be hassled with DRM and all that other sh**, and i expect not to need a damn CD in my Drive to play or be online to play it or access features of said game. Or its a Service at which point i am entitled to them bringing the service into working conditions.

I might not be entitled to a patch which 'fixes' repeating areas, plotholes, screwed up logic (like the whole Player Party Mages Issue) and the like, but i am entitled to bug fixes. Or at least i feel like i am.

[mousestalker]

All the above being said, I would totally buy any DLC that came with ponies, especially ponies that had rainbow pastel colours. Rainbow ponies make everything better. The only thing better than rainbow pastel ponies are flying rainbow pastel ponies. They're better than even gryphons.

[Sabriana]

Well, getting free stuff would be a nice gesture, but I'm not about to have a nervous breakdown because it's not happening.

I do however, agree that time spent on DLC should be allocated to fixing DA 2. I have glitches and bugs, and I had to resort to the modding community to get them fixed. I also still can't play the game the "proper" way, even though I have bought and installed a legit copy.

As for item DLC, well, it's up to the individual to buy it or not. I never buy DLC, not for any game by any company. My own little boycott if you will. I know that my few measly euros don't matter one little bit to a multi-million (or billion) corporation, but it sure as heck makes me feel good. So it's a win/win situation.

Aside from that, no matter what they do now, they are going to catch a lot of flak. So why not go ahead and release an item DLC.

I can even fathom that there would be an outcry of "how dare they offer a measly little item DLC for free! I feel I should get a huge story DLC for free instead!"

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

(For the record I do have slight issues with DLC being provided before the game is even launched, which in my old-fashioned mind means it should be a part of the game proper, but that's another story.

I agree.

Edited because Mousestalker insists on posting things that crack me up

Mousestalker wrote...

All the above being said, I would totally buy any DLC that came with
ponies, especially ponies that had rainbow pastel colours. Rainbow
ponies make everything better. The only thing better than rainbow
pastel ponies are flying rainbow pastel ponies. They're better than
even gryphons.

Modifié par Sabriana, 28 avril 2011 - 12:59 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Sabriana wrote...

I can even fathom that there would be an outcry of "how dare they offer a measly little item DLC for free! I feel I should get a huge story DLC for free instead!"

"If I gave him a pile of gold, he'd complain it was too heavy."

[Merilsell]

mousestalker wrote...

All the above being said, I would totally buy any DLC that came with ponies, especially ponies that had rainbow pastel colours. Rainbow ponies make everything better. The only thing better than rainbow pastel ponies are flying rainbow pastel ponies. They're better than even gryphons.

But...BUT GRIFFONS

*still wants a griffon plushie*

Modifié par Merilsell, 28 avril 2011 - 01:00 .

[Metaliban]

What next, halla armour?

Modifié par Metaliban, 28 avril 2011 - 01:05 .

[mousestalker]

Metaliban wrote...

What next, halla armour?

No! Halla are cute!

If Darkspawn are going to figure prominently in the rest of the series, then non-Warden characters will need something to remove the taint. If Bioware absolutely has to introduce items in lieu of content then what is required are Darksponges.

[Esbatty]

Holy crap, BW/EA could've given us this DLC for free and people would still b*tch about it about because "Why are you giving us free DLC when the game ain't even all patched up right?" and the answer being DLC teams are seperate from the patching teams.

[Leonia]

Esbatty wrote...

Holy crap, BW/EA could've given us this DLC for free and people would still b*tch about it about because "Why are you giving us free DLC when the game ain't even all patched up right?" and the answer being DLC teams are seperate from the patching teams.

Stop adding facts to the story! And yeah.. I can't think of many free DLCs aside from Bring Down the Sky in ME1. It kinda comes with being DLC since it is exclusive content.

[Anarya]

Whoa whoa whoa hold up. You mean Bioware isn't a nonprofit?

Truthfully I won't be buying these item pack DLCs because it's not something I personally feel is worth paying for, but I think getting outraged about it is strange.

[Rockpopple]

I wish I could... but the PSN is still kneecapped. =/

[Kidd]

I'll probably end up paying for this just so EA sees people care about the game and fund BioWare people to continue patching and working on the game instead of simply dropping it for DA3 or another project right away.

[Esbatty]

Anarya wrote...

Whoa whoa whoa hold up. You mean Bioware isn't a nonprofit?
 

Thats right, that whole time we thought it was feeding puppies and orphans it was actually feeding puppies TO orphans.

Bioware: Alright, here is a puppy. Don't say we didn't give nothin' to ya.
Orphan: Yay! I'm not alone anymore! But I'm still hungry and so is this puppy.
BW: Eat up, you still need to animate each individual follicle of Varric's Chest hair for the cutscene.
O: Eat what?
BW: Eat.
O: *tearfully* Please puppy, stop licking my face so I can start licking yours.
BW: Now to take these kittens to the widows in the DLC dungeon.

[KennethAFTopp]

savagesparrow wrote...

Neverwinter 1 was regarded as a terrible game until they capitalized on scenarios developed by the modding community for the expansion packs, and because of those expansion packs, it's held in super high regard. So maybe we'll get a Hoards of the Underdark for DA 2. But that stuff takes time.

Personally, I found my experience with DA 2 enjoyable, though perhaps not as fulfilling storywise as DA:O. So I'm looking forward to storybased DLC, and hope that they devote the time necessary to deliver something really cool instead of being pressured into releasing something buggy and half-assed before it's ready. While an armor pack isn't for me, like someone said above, there're people into that sorta thing.

And in any event, like all DLC it's optional. Voice opinions with (or without) your dollar ;x

I bought the DLC for the rogue daggers which didn't seem to suck balls design wise as the original ones.

I do wonder because alot of the two handed swords also kinda sucks.

[Nightshade IX]

Dragon age 2 has the unfortunate reputation of being a sloppy cash grab amongst its detractors. Releasing an items pack for $5 as the first non launch-day DLC is just going to reinforce that notion.

[Wrathra]

Robtachi wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Robtachi wrote...
Seriously? After the tremendous outcry from the fanbase for some sort of compensation for the (now) months of waiting on patches to fix game breaking bugs, glitches and freezes, we get...

Back in my day, games had bugs and sometimes they were fixed, sometimes they weren't, and sometimes the game sucked, sometimes it didn't, and you just accepted it even though you spent $60 on the game. 'Cause they gave you a cloth map.

Obviously, this is what is missing from the Dragon Age franchise to ensure the fans are properly appeased.

You would have to be specifically speaking about PC titles (unless "your day" indicates less than 5 years ago), which unfairly shoehorns the rest of us into your category of player.

I'd like to know one mainstream title from a developer as large and well-regarded as Bioware that was released "in your day", full retail, with a myriad of scenarios that make it unplayable or unable to complete from a purely technological aspect.

Before video games became wildly popular and lucrative, developers could never get away with it, lest they run themselves into the ground.  Now they can, because the demographic is so massive and diverse, there will always be customers.  But that doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean we should sit around and swallow it and ask for more.

Ultima VII had a game breaking bug (both PC and Amiga versions) that was addressed in an add-on pack.  The game was absolutely unplayable beacuse of it.  Origins was well known for their RPGs and their cutting edge technology at the time, and if I remember right, they got a lot of flak for it.

Sierra had a game breaking bug in Quest for Glory 4 that I needed to wait for a disk to fix - by mail. That was fun.

I played those puppies on my Amiga 500 - so I'm dating myself here.

I'm not giving Bioware a pass by any stretch of the imagination, and DA2 was enough of a disappointment to me where I will never blindly buy a product of theirs again, but they are not the first developer to do this.   They are also far more responsive than many other developers have been, so as much as I want to rant and rave at them (and believe me, I do )  I'll give them time.  If they refuse to address it, that's another matter entirely.

Modifié par Wrathra, 28 avril 2011 - 03:48 .