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Why I think People Hate Ashley Williams


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#1
GuardianAngel470

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There are three main complaints that I see about Ashley Williams: Religion, Poetry, and apparent racism.

Now I understand that each of the fan base has a different reason for disliking or liking ashley williams, but I used a few tricks to come to my conclusions. However, I could be completely wrong, but at the very least these are reasons why I dislike her character. (see EDIT)

First up, Religion:

In Mass Effect 1 the player is given a host of imformation regarding religion in the galaxy. Codex entries are dedicated to analyzing each major species religious convictions and divergences. Liara often exclaims with the line "By the Goddess" in various situations. So then, why is it Ashley that gets the hate? Why does ashley get called a zealot when, aside from one or two conversations, it never comes up?

In Mass Effect 2 you not only have a warrior Monk on your squad in Samara but also a religious assassin that prays to polytheistic deities during missions. The player is exposed to much more religious content in ME2 yet these characters almost never receive hate specifically associated with their religion. So why the disconnect?

I see two possibilities. First, she is the only one with a recognizable religion, despite the fact that she never states whether she is jewish, christian, or muslim. We are given the fact that she is monotheistic, she refers to the deity as God, and that she believes in an afterlife but that's all. But I believe that this familiarity to existing religions strikes chords within people who in real life know people that embody that sort of religion for them and thus there is a personal connection to things completely unrelated to the character.

Second, and this is the one I personally feel, Ashley is the only character that forces the player to judge the validity of her religious beliefs. Liara never asks you if her religion is alright with you, neither do Samara or Thane. Ashley does do this in one of her conversations and at least for me, it turned me off to the character slightly.

People judge others all the time but they don't like being put on the spot to do it to someone's face.

Now on to Poetry:

Now I can totally understand why some people find Ashley's poetry reading endearing and a positive quality. However, many others find it abrasive and slightly annoying because they don't enjoy poetry. Most students where I come from who have to do poetry in high school (secondary) and college find it pretty useless. Why waste time and effort analyzing a poem to find hidden meaning that in many cases was not intended by the author? That is our only exposure to the medium.

While many find poetry interesting and fun to analyze, others don't and thus having poetry recited to you by a character just feels unpleasant. There's also the elitism factor of poetry and literature. I would have to say I find that more abrasive as it was mildly fun to annoy my teachers by constantly finding symbols of death in everything.

Finally, Racist Ashley is Racist. Right?

This would probably be the single most common reason that players and forumites don't like Ashley. I'll state my postion right now: I don't think she's racist, however she doesn't do a terribly good job of convincing us otherwise. Mostly it's just inferences and implications.

Think about the popularity of certain characters for a moment. Wrex and Garrus literally are two of the most popular characters in the entire series. And what two characters does Ashley specifically name when she brings up the topic of aliens on the Normandy? Vakarian and Wrex. See the correlation there?

She specifically names two of the most popular characters when she talks about restricting access. Funny part is, of all the people she should be worried about, Tali is at the very top yet she never mentions her. A second class citizen learning the ins and outs of the normandy's prototype drive core and stealth systems? By her logic a recipe for disaster.

Now, I think the writers did a pretty bad job of winning the player over to her side after that very first impression of the conversation. Perhaps they underestimated just how popular those two would be, which is totally reasonable, but whatever the case, Ashley only goes on to explicitly state what she isn't. She says she isn't racist, she says that the Terra Firma party is a pack of xenophobes, implying that she isn't, and she tells you the story of her father but the character's stance is pretty much left up to interpretation.

That is bad because of the first impression she made. Without the character correcting the first impression completely, it is inevitable that players will latch on to that part of her dialog.

Think of it this way, if a person came up to you and said something about the War on terrorism that you vehemently disagree with, you're less likely to listen to their rationale. Of course the wise person doesn't judge based on first impressions, but not everyone is wise.

In Conclusion:

That is my detailed explanation for why people dislike Ashley. The purpose of this post is to help Ashley fans who are struggling to understand the arguments about their favorite character's faults and take a fire hose to the flame wars.

EDIT: I almost never do this, but this time I needed to correct myself. What I have stricken out is not true. Over the course of writing this OP and then thinking about it later, I came to the conclusion that I no longer agree with my previous statement. I do not dislike Ashley's character because of any of the above reasons. I did, but I no longer do. 

Just felt like I should clear that up.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 07 mai 2011 - 12:54 .


#2
Collider

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I do think her writer did a quite poor job of conveying that she isn't racist, yes.

#3
GodWood

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I think it's more likely people just fail to understand her dog/bear analogy.

#4
Collider

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The analogy is not very good.

#5
Barquiel

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Collider wrote...

The analogy is not very good.


this

And "I can't tell the aliens from the animals" didn't help either. I like Ashley, but that line is unneccesary...imo.

#6
Hyper_gateway

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What comes in my impression of ME is the action of my character will somehow affect my teammate during the missions. Base of this fact, I wouldn't mind to run into a racist, a religion person.

Imo, the more different squadmates the better the game experience will be. The result of hate is normal and somehow expected by the writer, they are not making a person who will be a sweetheart to each of the players, everyone of us should have different reaction on their response. In other word, the more conflicts these character brings up, the more success on the writer.

Just simple as that. :)

#7
TobiTobsen

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Doesn't matter anymore. When they really design Ash like the pic in the GI showed her, then the haters are to distracted by her catsuit and her upgraded boobies to hate. Posted Image

#8
Homebound

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ashley reminds me of that racist batman parody on youtube.

#9
TomY90

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I actually think they did a mixed job on conevying her as not a racist because granted she says that line 1st but overtime you find she is not racist its just she has strong opinions and aliens being allies due to her father.

#10
GodWood

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Collider wrote...
The analogy is not very good.

Why?

Modifié par GodWood, 28 avril 2011 - 09:02 .


#11
Raizo

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Try this:

****** poor writing during the Horizon scene, never had a probelm with Ashley before Horizon. As a matter of fact I was quite proud to have romanced her in ME1. After Horizon however the character is now on my **** list. After that whenever I replay ME1 or use the PS3 versions interactive comic I no longer bother romancing anyone from ME1.

#12
lawp79

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The problem with Ash haters is they will never listen to anyone elses opinion they just post "RACIST, RACIST HILLBILLY" the irony is beautiful.

#13
TomY90

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Raizo wrote...

Try this:

****** poor writing during the Horizon scene, never had a probelm with Ashley before Horizon. As a matter of fact I was quite proud to have romanced her in ME1. After Horizon however the character is now on my **** list. After that whenever I replay ME1 or use the PS3 versions interactive comic I no longer bother romancing anyone from ME1.


funny you said that because I am doing that now for ME1 because I know if forced between Ashley and Miranda I will go miranda within a heartbeat for one she is nicer, (eventhough she used to work for cerberus) less racist and in my opinion the most iconic character throughout mass effect so far (except commander shepherd of course)

and they are saying you will get punished for romancing with someone from ME2 if you romanced with someone in ME1 so might as well fix that one

#14
lawp79

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Raizo wrote...

Try this:

****** poor writing during the Horizon scene, never had a probelm with Ashley before Horizon. As a matter of fact I was quite proud to have romanced her in ME1. After Horizon however the character is now on my **** list. After that whenever I replay ME1 or use the PS3 versions interactive comic I no longer bother romancing anyone from ME1.


Actually I think its Shepards responces or rather lack of which are the problem with Horizon, Ashley behaves in a way which I believe is true to her character but Shep just stands there like a dribbling fratboy.

#15
TomY90

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lawp79 wrote...

Raizo wrote...

Try this:

****** poor writing during the Horizon scene, never had a probelm with Ashley before Horizon. As a matter of fact I was quite proud to have romanced her in ME1. After Horizon however the character is now on my **** list. After that whenever I replay ME1 or use the PS3 versions interactive comic I no longer bother romancing anyone from ME1.


Actually I think its Shepards responces or rather lack of which are the problem with Horizon, Ashley behaves in a way which I believe is true to her character but Shep just stands there like a dribbling fratboy.


I do think it ashley was being stubborn even though shepherd explained why he did not contact her and where he has been she still acted like he was the devil himself

#16
Raizo

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lawp79 wrote...

Raizo wrote...

Try this:

****** poor writing during the Horizon scene, never had a probelm with Ashley before Horizon. As a matter of fact I was quite proud to have romanced her in ME1. After Horizon however the character is now on my **** list. After that whenever I replay ME1 or use the PS3 versions interactive comic I no longer bother romancing anyone from ME1.


Actually I think its Shepards responces or rather lack of which are the problem with Horizon, Ashley behaves in a way which I believe is true to her character but Shep just stands there like a dribbling fratboy.



Fair enough, there is alot of truth to what you are saying. Still does not change the fact that the whole entire experience has left a very sour taste in my mouth and has made me very bitter and hostile to Ashley in general.

#17
ThatDancingTurian

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lawp79 wrote...

Actually I think its Shepards responces or rather lack of which are the problem with Horizon, Ashley behaves in a way which I believe is true to her character but Shep just stands there like a dribbling fratboy.

This. We were totally railroaded in that conversation, and it wasn't Ashley's fault.

#18
TobiTobsen

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Aris Ravenstar wrote...

lawp79 wrote...

Actually I think its Shepards responces or rather lack of which are the problem with Horizon, Ashley behaves in a way which I believe is true to her character but Shep just stands there like a dribbling fratboy.

This. We were totally railroaded in that conversation, and it wasn't Ashley's fault.


What... you don't think that Shepards "Jo Ash, I'm back. What's up? I'm with Cerberus now! Wanna join?" reaction was appropriate in that situation?

Shepards acts like a big bunch of herp derp on Horizion.

#19
Black_Arrow141

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Nothing to do with her religion. Poetry? Yeah, that got annoying. And i'm not too bothered about her being against aliens (I have a class specifically designed around that, anyway).

#20
Leonia

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I heard all the Ashley haters decided she was hot and attractive after the GI article. Apparently now she is well-loved. Who would have thought.

#21
lawp79

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leonia42 wrote...

I heard all the Ashley haters decided she was hot and attractive after the GI article. Apparently now she is well-loved. Who would have thought.



I heard that too, funny that.

#22
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*

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lawp79 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I heard all the Ashley haters decided she was hot and attractive after the GI article. Apparently now she is well-loved. Who would have thought.



I heard that too, funny that.


GI article make me switch from Ashley to Kaidan for the Virmire survivor.... So goodbye ashley my shepard will have a bromance with Kaidan. B)

#23
skcih-deraj

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Funny how that works. "She's a racist, religious zealot!" and now that she gets her leather outfit and a new hair dew, she's gods gift to horny teenagers.

I see no differance in her chest. Since this whole buissness started about it, I blew off the dust and booted up ME1 and hey guess what... Her chest is exactly the same! (great now I'm that guy) *shakes head*

Anyone ever think its just the armor she's wearing?  

Modifié par skcih-deraj, 28 avril 2011 - 10:16 .


#24
TobiTobsen

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lawp79 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I heard all the Ashley haters decided she was hot and attractive after the GI article. Apparently now she is well-loved. Who would have thought.



I heard that too, funny that.


The power of catsuits, open hair and accentuated boobies. Even the Ash haters can't deny it.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 28 avril 2011 - 10:09 .


#25
Ural Highlander

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TomY90 wrote...
I do think it ashley was being stubborn even though shepherd explained why he did not contact her and where he has been she still acted like he was the devil himself


After that scene I felt like hit by a club. Later, after some consideration, I decided it's a hopeless case to settle using few words. Just remember what Thane said about him and his son.