388 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexMBrennan]

You don't just let some aliens who you've know for all of 5 minutes have full access to your ship's systems. That's like you letting someone you've just met borrow your car.

Her line is "Should we give the aliens, Vakarian and Wrex, full access to the ship". Her use of "aliens" is not to save time ("Vakarian and Wrex" is shorter than "aliens, Vakarian and Wrex"); nor are her concerns particularly rational (Wrex displays no particular interest in technology whatsoever but Tali taking apart the engine and gathering information from the chief engineer is fine?).

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 02 mai 2011 - 06:47 .

[lolwut666]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

You don't just let some aliens who you've know for all of 5 minutes have full access to your ship's systems. That's like you letting someone you've just met borrow your car.

Her line is "Should we give the aliens, Vakarian and Wrex, full access to the ship". Her use of "aliens" is not to save time ("Vakarian and Wrex" is shorter than "aliens, Vakarian and Wrex"); nor are her concerns particularly rational (Wrex displays no particular interest in technology whatsoever but Tali taking apart the engine and gathering information from the chief engineer is fine?).

Turians are openly bigoted towards humans, and krogan are hostile and unpreditable by nature.

And while using "aliens" may make that sentence sound harsh, she's still got a point. Why would you allow aliens free access to the systems of a human ship? For all we know, they could be spying on us.

As for Tali, you have a good point, but maybe she just didn't feel like mentioning all the aliens. I frankly am not sure.

[1Minsc1]

trobbins777 wrote
People hate Ashley J. Williams because even with a girls name he's more manly than you could ever hope to be.

V-rex wrote
I like Ashley for her good traits and love her for her flaws. In a
gaming world where every female character is either a sexual fantasy or
an idealized nerd girlfriend, Ashley was a daring representation of a
character who wasn't totally agreeable, but also not totally hateful
either. She's very bold, brave and beautiful and has a noteworthy
degree of compassion within all that. But she's also quick to anger,
has a capacity to say the wrong thing and can often be quite stubborn.

I totally agree to that, and think that you both made some good points. But i try a few speculations going a bit deeper. (This is a MShep look but I think it works also for a FShep).
1. In a RPG the player takes a role and here that means he is Shepard in certain way, or identify himself with Shepard more or less.
2. As this he/she identify with the perception of Shepard in game world, means: Shep (Me) is a big hero, making the way, the only way it works to save galaxy.
3. Most NPC act conforming this:
Tali: "O Shep, thank you for saving me, I am so glad to be here. Thank you, thank you." "Oh you got data from a Geth, this will help our (racist?) war against them. Thank you, thank you...."
Liara: "O Shep, blessed by a prothean beacon, oh, oh." "Of course you can kill my mother, i´m begging you to do so, oh, oh..." 
Both behave more than teenagers, not adult. Liara mentioned she is not adult by asari standard.
There is a discussion about Liara´s character in ME2, many were disappointed. So what? She became adult, without you Shep! But don´t worry there´s a pubertal flashback DLC.
Don´t get me wrong, i like them both, but this is a little silly, or?
4. Let´s take a look at Ash. "I´m not a princess, waiting for a knight in a shining armor" "Tali is a threat to security" "Liara is a bug-eyed Alien"
First conclusion: Ahs didn´t fit the scheme, more worse she dislikes the NPC that did. No suprise player who like Tali/Liara don´t like her. And, even more worse, she told a MShep "I don´t need a man (you) to be happy with my life" This is not the whole truth, but again doesn´t fit the sheme "I´am the HERO! Nobody is happy without me!!!"
Second conclusion: the mechanism above works more or less subconscious, so Player need to rationalize it. As for this, they turn to "obvious arguments" hating Ash. Racism, religious-zealot and so on...
Third, very speculative, conclusion: I bet, most Ash-haters a young man or boys. I´d love to see if there are correlations between liking/hating Ash - gender - age. I bet there are.

P.S. why do I like Ash? why did my MShep fellt in love with her? I´am an adult men, and he wants a relationship at eye-level.

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 02 mai 2011 - 07:22 .

[ExtremeOne]

Its real simple she acted like Shepard was a alliance slave on horizon by claiming he sold out . well that little alliance princess will rot on My Ship in 3 . I hate that b*tch

[1Minsc1]

That "princess-thing" really bother you!?. Fits perfect to my "theory", or are you just kidding?
And Horizon... so much said about that (VS-Thread), i think you´re simply wrong.

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 02 mai 2011 - 08:11 .

[AlexMBrennan]

@lolwut666: I don't deny that there are perfectly good reasons to not allow everyone free access to the Normandy, or for Ash to bring it up. However, I got a feeling that the real reason was general distrust in non-humans

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 02 mai 2011 - 12:44 .

[lolwut666]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

@lolwut666: I don't deny that there are perfectly good reasons to not allow everyone free access to the Normandy, or for Ash to bring it up. However, I got a feeling that the real reason was general distrust in non-humans

Maybe, but that's because of that business with her family name.

Still, you have the opportunity to make her more acceptant of aliens, and she seems to get better by the end of the game. Why keep hating on her then?

I think one of the worst traits a human being can have is the inability to forgive.

Modifié par lolwut666, 02 mai 2011 - 12:48 .

[Icinix]

I think Ashely is one of the best true to life characters in the ME universe.

Shes my LI and shes awesome.

Now she has cleavage and long hair. She just gets better and better.

As for the racism thing, I never had any dialogue that suggested she was racist in ME1, just pro-human.

[nelly21]

I've never understood the "Ashley is racist" argument.

Everybody trusts their kind more than others. It's basic human nature. Racism would be the belief that one's race is inherently better than another. She never expresses that belief. At most, I would categorize Ashley as slightly xenophobic.

Saren was racist. "You humans need to learn your place" and all that crap. Ashley just believes we shouldn't depend on other races which seems pretty level headed to me.

[Alamar2078]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

She must be a cat person ... I like my dog(s) and would certainly see what I could do to get the bear to decide to be elsewhere ....

You'd die for a dog?

Dieing for the dog would not be my first option.  I wouldn't have a problem grabbing a rifle though and trying to fight with my dog to make the bear decide that this wouldn't be a good idea.   IMHO you do this when you respect and care for the beings in a fight whether they are sentient or not .....

Edit:  Yes I knew exactly what she was talking about.  My original post was more of a joke than anything else.  Seeing that a few people replied though ...

Modifié par Alamar2078, 02 mai 2011 - 05:32 .

[1Minsc1]

what are you talking about dog´s and bear´s ???

[1Minsc1]

Saphra Deden wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

what are you talking about dog´s and bear´s ???

If you can't follow the conversation then just be quiet.

left click interrupt syndrom???
the misleading analogy was discussed much earlier...why again? the problem is perfect clear

[Made Nightwing]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Is it really that unreasonable to hate the robots that have driven you into exile and wiped out billions of your people? It isn't like the geth are a completely innocent party in the Morning War. They also committed genocide.

You'll never get through to those suitwetting geth apologists.

In my humble opinion. The Aggressor is the one to blame. Saddly it's the Quarian. Thus, I will not help them in anyway to attack the Geth.

Agree with you on that one. If the geth want to give back the homeworld, that's fine, but if they don't, and the Quarian's going to try and take it by force, then I may be forced to do something that will prevent them from going on the offensive, at least for a short period of time. Maybe disabling the engines on their warships?

[1Minsc1]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

In my humble opinion. The Aggressor is the one to blame. Saddly it's the Quarian. Thus, I will not help them in anyway to attack the Geth.

Since when is self-defense aggression? That's all the quarians did; defend themselves. I'm sure they'd be happy to have your (worthless) moral support if they'd let the geth make the first move and now they were all dead.

? if i got it right, the quarians tried to deactivate (means kill) the geth and after that the geth attacked. looks to me like the geth defending themselves

[1Minsc1]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

In
my humble opinion. The Aggressor is the one to blame. Saddly it's the
Quarian. Thus, I will not help them in anyway to attack the Geth.

Since
when is self-defense aggression? That's all the quarians did; defend
themselves. I'm sure they'd be happy to have your (worthless) moral
support if they'd let the geth make the first move and now they were
all dead.

Saphra Deden wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

? if i got it right, the quarians tried to deactivate (means kill) the geth and after that the geth attacked. looks to me like the geth defending themselves

You have an extremely simple-minded and erroneous view of the situation. To protect themselves from possible destruction the quarians needed to take proactive action.

You have an extremely simple-minded and erroneous view of the
situation. To protect themselves from possible destruction the geth
needed to take proactive action.

edit: offtopic

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 02 mai 2011 - 10:49 .

[Alamar2078]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

Dieing for the dog would not be my first option.

So would you or wouldn't you die for a dog? You don't have a rifle. Answer the question.

It's all about expected outcomes, probability, and how they interplay into  moral sense ....  

So if you are asking would I expose myself to a situation where I have absolutely 0% chance of living on the off chance that I might save my dog ... No ... it's not worth the chance.

Would I grab a rifle and take my chances to save my dog ... absolutely.

If my dog and I were both running from the bear would I order the dog to attack the bear so I could get away  ... NEVER  [I find the concept repugnant and think anyone that would think that way deserves to be bear snacks]

Would I rush in to save my dog if a bear attacked and it was in the process of mauling the dog.  No because I doubt at that point that I could save the dog's life.

Would I rush in if the dog was unhurt and I thought I had a chance of both of us getting away ... I certainly hope so.

Do I deserve to die if I'm in bear country without any protection ... pretty much ...

**************************************

Now would I die or fight for you ... a complete stranger that I have no emotional attachment to other than you are a fellow sentient ... I suspect the further the thread goes the lower the chance of it.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

She must be a cat person ... I like my dog(s) and would certainly see what I could do to get the bear to decide to be elsewhere ....

You'd die for a dog?

My partner trained his dog to hide behind him if she's threatened.....Me, I would fight beside the dog.

[Golden Owl]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

Dieing for the dog would not be my first option.

So would you or wouldn't you die for a dog? You don't have a rifle. Answer the question.

It's all about expected outcomes, probability, and how they interplay into  moral sense ....  

So if you are asking would I expose myself to a situation where I have absolutely 0% chance of living on the off chance that I might save my dog ... No ... it's not worth the chance.

Would I grab a rifle and take my chances to save my dog ... absolutely.

If my dog and I were both running from the bear would I order the dog to attack the bear so I could get away  ... NEVER  [I find the concept repugnant and think anyone that would think that way deserves to be bear snacks]

Would I rush in to save my dog if a bear attacked and it was in the process of mauling the dog.  No because I doubt at that point that I could save the dog's life.

Would I rush in if the dog was unhurt and I thought I had a chance of both of us getting away ... I certainly hope so.

Do I deserve to die if I'm in bear country without any protection ... pretty much ...

**************************************

Now would I die or fight for you ... a complete stranger that I have no emotional attachment to other than you are a fellow sentient ... I suspect the further the thread goes the lower the chance of it.

Very well said Alamar