388 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

lawp79 wrote...

Antivenger wrote...

lawp79 wrote...

I believe the quote is ''I dont need money, a knight in shining armor  or a man to make me happy, this is who i am... I like her *with a smile* and you best too''

*Shakes fist at heavens* Darn it BioWare! You could have worded it differently! That just sounds bad. I mean, not just in context to what the other guys were talking about. It sounds bad in general!

Nah I just think folk take it too literally. All she means is she is happy on her own as she is with who she is.

Yeah agreed. I thought it was a great line. I think people just don't like strong independant women who don't show boobs.

Which is why she now shows more boobs and has her hair down.

[1Minsc1]

lawp79 wrote...

Antivenger wrote...

lawp79 wrote...

I believe the quote is ''I dont need money, a knight in shining armor  or a man to make me happy, this is who i am... I like her *with a smile* and you best too''

*Shakes fist at heavens* Darn it BioWare! You could have worded it differently! That just sounds bad. I mean, not just in context to what the other guys were talking about. It sounds bad in general!

Nah I just think folk take it too literally. All she means is she is happy on her own as she is with who she is.

three thoughts
1. i guess: Ash want´s to express that she want´s an eye-to-eye relationship. she is no "ooo Shep my Hero (Tali/Liara)" admiring teenager. that´s one reason why i like her and my MShep romanced her.
2. to me the "romance dialog" shows that she not said the truth. this "first time i feel good enough" shows this very clear.
3. Ash don´t want her to want a man to become happy. but i´am sure she knows that she needs somewhat to become happy. her insecure shows this, see posts above. her problem is, so i think, that she knows, when she tries to get what she needs (Shep) she gets vulnerable. and this is the last she wants to become (-> Horizon!)

[Zeevico]

To me, Ashley is a cookie cutter NPC who is, frankly, boring. But that was my experience with pretty much all the ME NPC's.

[lawp79]

1Minsc1 wrote...

lawp79 wrote...

Antivenger wrote...

lawp79 wrote...

I believe the quote is ''I dont need money, a knight in shining armor  or a man to make me happy, this is who i am... I like her *with a smile* and you best too''

*Shakes fist at heavens* Darn it BioWare! You could have worded it differently! That just sounds bad. I mean, not just in context to what the other guys were talking about. It sounds bad in general!

Nah I just think folk take it too literally. All she means is she is happy on her own as she is with who she is.

three thoughts
1. i guess: Ash want´s to express that she want´s an eye-to-eye relationship. she is no "ooo Shep my Hero (Tali/Liara)" admiring teenager. that´s one reason why i like her and my MShep romanced her.
2. to me the "romance dialog" shows that she not said the truth. this "first time i feel good enough" shows this very clear.
3. Ash don´t want her to want a man to become happy. but i´am sure she knows that she needs somewhat to become happy. her insecure shows this, see posts above. her problem is, so i think, that she knows, when she tries to get what she needs (Shep) she gets vulnerable. and this is the last she wants to become (-> Horizon!)

Ash says herself that she has had to bury alot of things over the years to get to where she is. Is she insecure? Hell yes, wouldnt anyone be with the way her family have been treated. She has become hardened over the years and struggles to let anyone in. I would say she contradicts herself but I only believe we see the real Ashley in the last few scenes, prior to that all we see is her brick wall she has built around her as we try and chip away at it.

Yes she wants Shep probably because he is the first person she has been able to trust in years and when she says "you make me feel good enough" she is laying down her soul and being completely herself, no guard because she completely trusts Shep. I think this is what makes her a great character, and so very human.

[1Minsc1]

@ lawp79 totally agree, that´s what i´m trying to say. but... take a look at my signature

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 03 mai 2011 - 11:18 .

[lawp79]

1Minsc1 wrote...

@ lawp79 totally agree, that´s what i´m trying to say. but... take a look at my signature

Your English is rather good, though I may have read a few points differently to how they were intended.

[1Minsc1]

lawp79 wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

@ lawp79 totally agree, that´s what i´m trying to say. but... take a look at my signature

Your English is rather good, though I may have read a few points differently to how they were intended.

so my reading/understandig maybe better than my writing. but anyway, thx
i read it again and think i´ve got the difference. still i agree to you, but i think "need no money, knight..." shows a psychological paradox: Ash wants this to be true, although she knows that it is not true. it´s not only her problem to trust in others, but also a problem of self-perception. i´am not sure that´s what you meant by "contradict herself" and it also maybe a little to much interpretation

[Alamar2078]

1Minsc1 wrote...

@ lawp79 totally agree, that´s what i´m trying to say. but... take a look at my signature

Your English is perfectly fine.  I especially like your word choice -- it seems that you go to great lengths to make sure you use the proper words at the proper times.

I.E. most Americans will use the term "racist" to describe someone with ANY negative feelings or thoughts toward another race when other words like bigot, bias, prejudge / prejudice [sp?] would be more appropriate.

[1Minsc1]

thx, as said english in not my native language, i really though a lot before posting. you might take a look at the "why i think... is hated" thread. horrible. you can not proper communicate when others you don´t use words according to their meaning...

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 03 mai 2011 - 05:35 .

[lawp79]

1Minsc1 wrote...

lawp79 wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

@ lawp79 totally agree, that´s what i´m trying to say. but... take a look at my signature

Your English is rather good, though I may have read a few points differently to how they were intended.

so my reading/understandig maybe better than my writing. but anyway, thx
i read it again and think i´ve got the difference. still i agree to you, but i think "need no money, knight..." shows a psychological paradox: Ash wants this to be true, although she knows that it is not true. it´s not only her problem to trust in others, but also a problem of self-perception. i´am not sure that´s what you meant by "contradict herself" and it also maybe a little to much interpretation

Contradict is similar to paradox, what I was trying to say is that Ashley believes she doesnt need those things to make her happy but she would like to have them, her happiness doesnt depend on having them though.

[1Minsc1]

@ lawp79: now i got it

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 03 mai 2011 - 03:02 .

[Alamar2078]

1Minsc1 wrote...

thx, as said english in not my native language, i really though a lot before posting. you might take a look at the "why i think... is hated" thread. horrible. you can not proper communicate when you don´t use words according to their meaning...

True enough.  

I think I've given up on some of the other "hate" threads ...

[Alamar2078]

Golden Owl wrote...

<large snip about dogs & bears>

Very well said Alamar

Thanks.  It's nice to know that others may have similar thoughts from time to time.

[Golden Owl]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Only partly romanced her by mistake once...reloaded...my Shep doesn't romance either her or Liara...I hear you can start softening Ash's views if you romance her, though I personally don't see what romance has to do with it....someone is either willing to have a closer look at themselves or not...if they do it just to appease someone they wish to please, then its pretty much a moot point, it's something they need to do for themselves, not another.

The way Ash harps on about how independant and tough she is, belies her insecurity...if she is aware of playing that role and is doing it on purpose, that just makes her very arrogent with a major chip on her shoulder.

agreed, but i think it makes her to appear arrogant, not really being it. that´s somewhat you can see often in real life

[/color][color="#ff0000"]if you made her trust in Shep she´s willing to argue about her views on aliens

agreed, but i think she allows herself this look on herself, but only a few other people (MShep romance) this look on her "real self", because she´s is not only mistrusting aliens but have also problems to find trust in humans (family history) 

All in all I do agree with you Minsc...you have been putting up a thoughtful defense of Ash, I have made my more diplomatic points about why I don't like her and have enjoyed and respected your refutes. I don't think I will ever be convinced to give Ash a second evaluation though, as she does press some major buttons for me on a personal level.

I remain unconvinced that she is not a bigot and have read everyones arguments there, I still see a bigot....will go into my thoughts on this and why I believe she is, if you wish me to... I will not initiate due to the heat of this topic.

Her attitude towards animals, I really don't like. Her religion doesn't bother me, she doesn't attempt to convert others, so each to their own there. As for the poetry, I personally found that a redeeming feature, an appreciation of poetry for itself, not its metre (or whatever), shows a deeper side of Ash.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 04 mai 2011 - 03:26 .

[Golden Owl]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Antivenger wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Well here's the first for you....40 year female....spent youth traveling alone, gypsy style...on a wing and a prayer...around Australia. Worked and raised family alone, only recently became partnered and my daughters are almost grown up.

I... what? It's.. it's hard to take you seriously now. >:|

About her "harping on about how she's independant". It might be because I'm biased or that I haven't played ME1 in a while, but where does she do this? All I knows is she says she "doesn't need a knight in shining armour" (which in all honesty I found rather cheesy), and that's only when you romance her. Considering her background, I wasn't surprised that she was wary of entering into a relationship with Shep.

golden owl tried to make a point against my speculations about Ash-haters

what she said about Ash independence, i think golden owl is right. Ash also said somtething like "i don´t need a man to be happy" and that´s obviously not 100% truth

Thank you Minsc

[xSTONEYx187x]

People hate Ashley!?

Madness.

Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 04 mai 2011 - 12:00 .

[Made Nightwing]

^Madness? THIS! IS! BIOWARE FORUMS!

[1Minsc1]

Golden Owl wrote...

All in all I do agree with you Minsc...you have been putting up a thoughtful defense of Ash, I have made my more diplomatic points about why I don't like her and have enjoyed and respected your refutes. I don't think I will ever be convinced to give Ash a second evaluation though, as she does press some major buttons for me on a personal level.

I remain unconvinced that she is not a bigot and have read everyones arguments there, I still see a bigot....will go into my thoughts on this and why I believe she is, if you wish me to... I will not initiate due to the heat of this topic.

Her attitude towards animals, I really don't like. Her religion doesn't bother me, she doesn't attempt to convert others, so each to their own there. As for the poetry, I personally found that a redeeming feature, an appreciation of poetry for itself, not its metre (or whatever), shows a deeper side of Ash.

Thanks to you! Nice to meet an Ash-disliker who´s willing and able making a serious discussion. I got sick by these "she a racist" brayer... It seems to me, alot here condemn Ash without "knowing" her. 
Off course i have to admit there are good reasons to dislike Ash and I´am not trying to persuade anyone here to like her, but i wonder about this very emotional "I hate her" reaction. In german hate implies very strong negative emotions, even the will to harm the hated person, don´t exactly know if is similar in english.
I´m looking forward to the next round...

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 04 mai 2011 - 08:16 .

[lawp79]

@1Minsc1

The word hate is also a very strong word in English too, at least it is supposed to be but it is overused to mean dislike with dramatic effect lol. To me the word hate is reserved for someone who has done something terrible against you or your family/friend, not for a fictional character in a video game.

[Golden Owl]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

All in all I do agree with you Minsc...you have been putting up a thoughtful defense of Ash, I have made my more diplomatic points about why I don't like her and have enjoyed and respected your refutes. I don't think I will ever be convinced to give Ash a second evaluation though, as she does press some major buttons for me on a personal level.

I remain unconvinced that she is not a bigot and have read everyones arguments there, I still see a bigot....will go into my thoughts on this and why I believe she is, if you wish me to... I will not initiate due to the heat of this topic.

Her attitude towards animals, I really don't like. Her religion doesn't bother me, she doesn't attempt to convert others, so each to their own there. As for the poetry, I personally found that a redeeming feature, an appreciation of poetry for itself, not its metre (or whatever), shows a deeper side of Ash.

Thanks to you! Nice to meet an Ash-disliker who´s willing and able making a serious discussion. I got sick by these "she a racist" brayer... It seems to me, alot here condemn Ash without "knowing" her. 
Off course i have to admit there are good reasons to dislike Ash and I´am not trying to persuade anyone here to like her, but i wonder about this very emotional "I hate her" reaction. In german hate implies very strong negative emotions, even the will to harm the hated person, don´t exactly know if is similar in english.
I´m looking forward to the next round...

The 'hate' reaction is extreme....yes, it means exactly the same in English and seems rather odd that people will get that excited over a pixel character....though I think the word 'hate' is often misunderstood and used out of context way too often in every day life, just listen to kids in a school yard.

[Golden Owl]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

All in all I do agree with you Minsc...you have been putting up a thoughtful defense of Ash, I have made my more diplomatic points about why I don't like her and have enjoyed and respected your refutes. I don't think I will ever be convinced to give Ash a second evaluation though, as she does press some major buttons for me on a personal level.

I remain unconvinced that she is not a bigot and have read everyones arguments there, I still see a bigot....will go into my thoughts on this and why I believe she is, if you wish me to... I will not initiate due to the heat of this topic.

Her attitude towards animals, I really don't like. Her religion doesn't bother me, she doesn't attempt to convert others, so each to their own there. As for the poetry, I personally found that a redeeming feature, an appreciation of poetry for itself, not its metre (or whatever), shows a deeper side of Ash.

Thanks to you! Nice to meet an Ash-disliker who´s willing and able making a serious discussion. I got sick by these "she a racist" brayer... It seems to me, alot here condemn Ash without "knowing" her. 
Off course i have to admit there are good reasons to dislike Ash and I´am not trying to persuade anyone here to like her, but i wonder about this very emotional "I hate her" reaction. In german hate implies very strong negative emotions, even the will to harm the hated person, don´t exactly know if is similar in english.
I´m looking forward to the next round...

Next round? It would be fun to discuss the 'Bigot' issue with someone who would rather discuss it than argue it.

[Crazegamer]

no idea what this hate is, But I had not much problems with ashley In mass effect.

[lawp79]

@Golden Owl

We may have a difference of opinion but I for one enjoy reading your posts.

[belwin]

well i like/liked (however your playthroughs went) ashley,

it's just the racism that was a big turn off.
maybe it's because i don't see racism alot where i live, but i found her bland prejudice a little much at times.
sure, her family has had some hard times with aliens,
but live and learn right?

imo, it's not the aliens who screwed the families military carriers over, its the alliance government blaming her Grandfather at Shanxi for putting a small ketchup stain on humanities military prowess.

which is unfair in itself,
but people always say life's never fair.

which is why i think she could tone down the prejudice at times,
and since she doesn't i tend to like kaidan more.

just my two cents.

[Golden Owl]

lawp79 wrote...

@Golden Owl

We may have a difference of opinion but I for one enjoy reading your posts.

Thank you Lawp...I really appreciate your comment and hope that further discussions like these can continue, instead of everyone getting all riled up.