388 réponses à ce sujet

[Ultai]

Golden Owl wrote...

But then again I don't believe in patriotism either, for the simple fact of where it leads...the 'Us or Them' mentality...I'm more of a 'World patriot' I guess...we are all in it together, earth isn't a big place, why in the heck are we always fighting...cut anyone and they bleed...And I guess I have had no trouble in this game, taking my same philosophy to galactic levels."

Humans have been fighting since day one.  It was various reasons in the past, and it will be new reasons in the future, as long as we exist.  It's just the way of things.

[Golden Owl]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Bumping Post....Yes, am going somewhere with it, in regards to both Ash and Tali....just waiting for thoughts first though....

"I kind of have a problem with that Minsc, to me such attitude helps perpetuate the dividing lines between the various species, if we are all too busy looking out for our own first, I can't see how we could truly come together and work as a complete whole for galatic stability...the 'Johnny got a bigger slice of cake than me' issue.... But then again I don't believe in patriotism either, for the simple fact of where it leads...the 'Us or Them' mentality...I'm more of a 'World patriot' I guess...we are all in it together, earth isn't a big place, why in the heck are we always fighting...cut anyone and they bleed...And I guess I have had no trouble in this game, taking my same philosophy to galactic levels."

I agree and i'm feeling/thinking the same way too. I'm a human that's what count. And every human being carry a self purpose in itself (Immanuel Kant, you kow? human rights...). That's also my attitude towards members of the ME-species. They are sentient, self-conscious and intelligent so i treat them like humans. But the creators of the ME-universe implied an other view, that was said in an interview. Can't post here, lost the link.  

The other view would probably sadly be much more realistic, given our instinctive nature to always strive to have more assets/commodities available to us than our neighbours...But the beauty of the human being is our ability to rise above our instinctual natures and think and act beyond it...I think if anything Ash is more a victim of this common human instinctual reaction than sheer 'Specieism', 'Bigotry', etc...but her being so vocal and determined about it is what makes her stand out and so inviting the branding.

Am waiting for hubby to come home from work at the moment, he gave me a very interesting take on exactly this nature of ours and it's flaws last night...I'm hoping he will post it, as I'm still just turning it over in my mind and getting a grip on it, so would just mess it up at this point, if I tried to explain it.

The pyramid effect.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 07 mai 2011 - 02:43 .

[Golden Owl]

Ultai wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

But then again I don't believe in patriotism either, for the simple fact of where it leads...the 'Us or Them' mentality...I'm more of a 'World patriot' I guess...we are all in it together, earth isn't a big place, why in the heck are we always fighting...cut anyone and they bleed...And I guess I have had no trouble in this game, taking my same philosophy to galactic levels."

Humans have been fighting since day one.  It was various reasons in the past, and it will be new reasons in the future, as long as we exist.  It's just the way of things.

Hello Ultai...lol...just approached same subject on last post...please refer to post above.

Yes, it is just the way things are, but regardless of that fact, does it make it right and justifiable?

[jamesp81]

Shepard, when he joined the military, swore an oath to defend humanity. Period. He will do so to the best of his ability.

[Golden Owl]

jamesp81 wrote...

Shepard, when he joined the military, swore an oath to defend humanity. Period. He will do so to the best of his ability.

Yes, correct....please clarify?

Modifié par Golden Owl, 06 mai 2011 - 03:02 .

[lolwut666]

@Golden Owl

You're still going on about this?

Give it a rest, plox.

She distrusts aliens. So what? In the Mass Effect universe, most humans do. Shepard and the crew of the Normandy are exceptions rather than the rule. They're used to dealing with aliens all the time, y'know.

Ashley spent most her life in the military stuck groundside. Her first spacer job was aboard the Normandy. Dealing with aliens is *not* common to her.

And her suspicion is well justifed, because she simply doesn't want aliens spying on the Normandy's (a *human* ship) systems.

Modifié par lolwut666, 06 mai 2011 - 02:45 .

[Golden Owl]

lolwut666 wrote...

@Golden Owl

You're still going on about this?

Give it a rest, plox.

She distrusts aliens. So what? In the Mass Effect universe, most humans do. Shepard and the crew of the Normandy are exceptions rather than the rule. They're used to dealing with aliens all the time, y'know.

Ashley spent most her life in the military stuck groundside. Her first spacer job was aboard the Normandy. Dealing with aliens is *not* common to her.

And her suspicion is well justifed, because she simply doesn't want aliens spying on the Normandy's (a *human* ship) systems.

If you don't like the conversation, why join it? I understand her concern with non-personel having access to the ships workings, I don't think it would matter if they were human or alien, they are not Alliance personel.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 06 mai 2011 - 03:01 .

[lolwut666]

@Golden Owl

All the more reason not to give them access to the ship's systems. The Normandy is an Alliance ship, after all.

Modifié par lolwut666, 06 mai 2011 - 03:35 .

[GuardianAngel470]

lolwut666 wrote...

@Golden Owl

All the more reason not to give them access to the ship's systems. The Normandy is an Alliance ship, after all.

Golden Owl is not contending that, she already agreed to this statement. Arguing about something that is not actually a point in contention is fallacious.

[lolwut666]

Well, I didn't mean to be fallacious.

I'll just leave, then.

Sorry for whatever.

[goofyomnivore]

One thing I feel people overlook of Ash is she is one of the squad members who advocates to save the Destiny Ascension. I didn't expect that from her and it was certainly a pleasant surprise.

[goofyomnivore]

Oh for real didn't know that. I always thought what they said was set in stone. I've only played through ME1 about four or five times though and it was long ago. I just remember her saying save the DA while Liara was like let it burn LOL.

[1Minsc1]

I knows it's offtopic but....
In real life would really someone try to save the DA? We know we'll get a happy end, so what, save it.
If Sovereign takes over control it's all over. Risking that to save the DA? I play Paragon by convincement but this decision...

[goofyomnivore]

Well Saren is the only one with the key to the relay, and he as far as my Shepard knows is dead. Sovereign is just a really really really big angry ship at that point, so why not save the DA and possibly use it to shoot @ Sovereign. Since it is the largest and most powerful dreadnaught in Citadel Space.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Ashley didn't trust the aliens in the crew just because they were aliens, I wasn't a fan of that. I didn't like her being mean to Liara and I thought it was quite unprofessional. I did enjoy having Shep tell her off for it though and I liked Ashley's stories about her family. All in all I found her more entertaining than Kaiden who was just boring.

[1Minsc1]

@ strive At time of the decision Saren is "first time" dead. But Sovereign could try to took control an other way (WLAN or what...). As far as i understand: Shep have to decide: save DA and give time to Sovereign or attack S immediatly and so lower the risk but let DA/Council die. Am i wrong?

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 06 mai 2011 - 11:38 .

[goofyomnivore]

Well if Sovereign could control it WLAN what would be the point of Saren needing to be there? He could of just stormed the point and done it at any point in the game. Since the wings to the Citadel are almost always open it seemed like.

In my brain; I thought Saren is dead the relay can't be opened, but Sovereign can still kill us all and have someone else open it later, so I figured saving the DA would do two things, lower the Geth ships #s and give us a huge dreadnaught to destroy Sovereign with. My choice had nothing to do with saving the council, they're just lucky they were on the the ship with the biggest gun LOL.

Modifié par strive, 07 mai 2011 - 12:10 .

[goofyomnivore]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Ashley didn't trust the aliens in the crew just because they were aliens, I wasn't a fan of that. I didn't like her being mean to Liara and I thought it was quite unprofessional. I did enjoy having Shep tell her off for it though and I liked Ashley's stories about her family. All in all I found her more entertaining than Kaiden who was just boring.

Well one of those aliens was a Krogan Bouny Hunter for the Shadowbroker, the other a random Quarian(who have less than favorable reputations throughout Citadel space), and a Turian(First Contact War) not to mention IIRC her dad was the only human commander to surrender to an alien(First Contact War) whichas caused a lot of emotional baggage. She was a jerk to Liara I'll give you that, but she isn't some space KKK advocate or xenophobe maniac that lots make her out to be. She is cautious and not exactly pro-alien, but I don't blame her considering her history and experience with aliens.

[1Minsc1]

@ strive uh, so the renegade choice is... very renegade. f*** the DA, f*** the council, humans rule? and no serious consequences in ME2. That's gonna be nice in ME3...

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 07 mai 2011 - 12:20 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

strive wrote...

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Ashley didn't trust the aliens in the crew just because they were aliens, I wasn't a fan of that. I didn't like her being mean to Liara and I thought it was quite unprofessional. I did enjoy having Shep tell her off for it though and I liked Ashley's stories about her family. All in all I found her more entertaining than Kaiden who was just boring.

Well one of those aliens was a Krogan Bouny Hunter for the Shadowbroker, the other a random Quarian(who have less than favorable reputations throughout Citadel space), and a Turian(First Contact War) not to mention IIRC her dad was the only human commander to surrender to an alien(First Contact War) whichas caused a lot of emotional baggage. She was a jerk to Liara I'll give you that, but she isn't some space KKK advocate or xenophobe maniac that lots make her out to be. She is cautious and not exactly pro-alien, but I don't blame her considering her history and experience with aliens.

I can see the point with Wrex but not so much Garrus and Tali. Garrus worked for C-sec surely that makes him trustworthy. I didn't agree with her for being suspicious but she brought that up in a professional way, she let Shepard know her opionion but was willing to let it go when Shepard disagreed. So that didn't bother me, but the way she spoke about Liara did bother me. I don't think Ashley's as bad as some people make out though. Once Shepard sets her straight she's pretty decent. 

[skcih-deraj]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

strive wrote...

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Ashley didn't trust the aliens in the crew just because they were aliens, I wasn't a fan of that. I didn't like her being mean to Liara and I thought it was quite unprofessional. I did enjoy having Shep tell her off for it though and I liked Ashley's stories about her family. All in all I found her more entertaining than Kaiden who was just boring.

Well one of those aliens was a Krogan Bouny Hunter for the Shadowbroker, the other a random Quarian(who have less than favorable reputations throughout Citadel space), and a Turian(First Contact War) not to mention IIRC her dad was the only human commander to surrender to an alien(First Contact War) whichas caused a lot of emotional baggage. She was a jerk to Liara I'll give you that, but she isn't some space KKK advocate or xenophobe maniac that lots make her out to be. She is cautious and not exactly pro-alien, but I don't blame her considering her history and experience with aliens.

I can see the point with Wrex but not so much Garrus and Tali. Garrus worked for C-sec surely that makes him trustworthy. I didn't agree with her for being suspicious but she brought that up in a professional way, she let Shepard know her opionion but was willing to let it go when Shepard disagreed. So that didn't bother me, but the way she spoke about Liara did bother me. I don't think Ashley's as bad as some people make out though. Once Shepard sets her straight she's pretty decent. 

How was she not  supposed to talk about the child of a woman who was working with the man behind the Eden Prime attack? Is she supposed to just take her at her word when she says "I'm not like Benezia."? She had every right to question Shepard on it.

[Golden Owl]

jamesp81 wrote...

Shepard, when he joined the military, swore an oath to defend humanity. Period. He will do so to the best of his ability.

Short Term Goal Orientated: So humanity strives to become the leading species on a Galatic level, there by commandeering the control of all resources (through military might?) and thus becomes the dominant leading force in the Galaxy....good for humans? Given earth history as an example of this method, it is doomed to failure, no leading force has ever remained stable and in power for more than a fairly short term of time.... and the consequences for such regimes is less than favorable.

Long Term Goal Orientated: This is where the pyramid effect comes into play....It's a matter of gains out weighing disadvantages and the cost of....for a singular to gain...aka...Humanity, Country, Neighbourhood, Family, Self....another must be disadvantaged...eg. Resource wise, for you to have more, another must have less....thus without going into extended detail, inevitably causing friction and history and current world happenings has taught us enough to know the inevitable path of where that leads.

But if you were to reverse this structure....placing the Galactic communties needs (ALL species) over the needs/wants? of one, whether that be Human, Salarian, Turian, etc...yes, I know, provided every Species is prepared to lay aside their instinctual urges....What we have then is a Galatic community advancing and building together, sharing knowledge, uplifting each other....imagine how far we could all go with galactically combined knowledge and resources at our disposal...each species playing to their strengths for the advancement of all....Yes, this method would certainly initially slow down our advancement...but as the saying goes 'All good things are worth waiting for'....given that extra time though, we end up minus the wars and advancing beyond our own imaginings.

I and so thus my Shep...sees his oath to defend humanity to the best of his abilities is to work beyond the short term here and now of aggressive or defensive military action against neighbouring Galatic communties, vying and jostling for position/resources/planets....instead focussing on the long term goal of encouraging galactic communities to work as a cohesive unit, (eg....trying to rally the various species to fight as one against the Reapers)...why stop there, he has the galactic communties attention....use that same power to encourage stability and advancement  through continuing to work together....Thats the best defense for humanity I can see.

Well...am feeling I am wearing myself out....unless someone wishes to refute my points with a sensible argument, I think I will stick to reading and not writing for a while........

Modifié par Golden Owl, 07 mai 2011 - 05:44 .