388 réponses à ce sujet

[MerchantGOL]

theirs a fine line Between her

Not trusting Aliens/And coming off with a bigot

and she crosses it a few times plain and simple

[AlexMBrennan]

What is interesting is that she wasn't preaching or even going into specifics on what she believed (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, ?) yet postings on other threads called her a Christian nut

That's a simple heuristic: she believes in a higher power (based on the afterlife dialogue); the most common such religion is Christianity (2.1 billion believers) and, by conservation of detail (this is a video game, after all) we would have been told if she wasn't Christian.
Besides, the problem is the fact that she's religious and not the particular faith.

[rmann]

 I'm still waiting for her to quote Idylls of the King.

[Eradyn]

We also might have been told if she was Christian, by that same turn. Reality is, BW kept it vague for a reason and her specific religion (if she even follows one) is not specified. To then state that she is definitively of such-and-such religion is to impart your own biases onto a character that made no such claim. Regardless, even if she did ascribe to a Christian religion/spirituality, it is not reason enough to hate her.

[Abispa]

To hell with the ME3 catsuit for Ashley. I have the original ME, and my Shepard and the players got to see her naked!

The VS response to Shepard was completely understandable. After all, RAISING SOMEONE FROM THE DEAD IS SUPPOSED TO BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE EXCEPT GOD (who may or may not exist), even in the ME universe. I realize that it is a common comic book, fantasy, and sci-fi cliche, and it only takes Shepard to about two seconds to absorb the "shocking" (cliche) news of her death and resurrection before s/he starts blowing up robots, but I applaud Bioware for making SOMEBODY suspicious of his/her return through CERBERUS. Cerberus, you know, the military black ops organization that spends half of ME trying to kill you.

Instead of being disappointed by the VS response, what the hell is going on with everyone else? Outside of Cerberus and Liara, who know the whole story, no one else should just take Shepard coming back from the dead in stride. Especially the aliens! Since, you know, Cerberus is viewed by non-humans as a human-centric terrorist hate group.

[TobiTobsen]

Eradyn wrote...

We also might have been told if she was Christian, by that same turn. Reality is, BW kept it vague for a reason and her specific religion (if she even follows one) is not specified. To then state that she is definitively of such-and-such religion is to impart your own biases onto a character that made no such claim. Regardless, even if she did ascribe to a Christian religion/spirituality, it is not reason enough to hate her.

Religion is like a red rag to a bull for some people/gamers. Just look at Dragon Age. People hate the chantry just for being an organised religion, people hate Leliana and Sebastian for talking about their god and so forth. Some people tend to react with militant atheism and hate against gaming characters who believe in something that doesn't fit their own worldview.

[Abispa]

There is no god. When I die, I'm going to assume room temperature and start to disintegrate. But while I'm an atheist, I'm not a whiny bed-wetter. Ashley is still my favorite.

[skcih-deraj]

Abispa wrote...

To hell with the ME3 catsuit for Ashley. I have the original ME, and my Shepard and the players got to see her naked!

The VS response to Shepard was completely understandable. After all, RAISING SOMEONE FROM THE DEAD IS SUPPOSED TO BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE EXCEPT GOD (who may or may not exist), even in the ME universe. I realize that it is a common comic book, fantasy, and sci-fi cliche, and it only takes Shepard to about two seconds to absorb the "shocking" (cliche) news of her death and resurrection before s/he starts blowing up robots, but I applaud Bioware for making SOMEBODY suspicious of his/her return through CERBERUS. Cerberus, you know, the military black ops organization that spends half of ME trying to kill you.

Instead of being disappointed by the VS response, what the hell is going on with everyone else? Outside of Cerberus and Liara, who know the whole story, no one else should just take Shepard coming back from the dead in stride. Especially the aliens! Since, you know, Cerberus is viewed by non-humans as a human-centric terrorist hate group.

^ this

[GuardianAngel470]

Eradyn wrote...

We also might have been told if she was Christian, by that same turn. Reality is, BW kept it vague for a reason and her specific religion (if she even follows one) is not specified. To then state that she is definitively of such-and-such religion is to impart your own biases onto a character that made no such claim. Regardless, even if she did ascribe to a Christian religion/spirituality, it is not reason enough to hate her.

Which is one of my two points in the OP. Bioware didn't specify whether she was Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or even agnostic so any claims that she is or isn't one of those groups is just projection.

[AlexMBrennan]

To then state that she is definitively of such-and-such religion is to impart your own biases onto a character that made no such claim

True; which is why I said that it's a reasonable heuristic rather than absolute truth.

[Apathy1989]

-Skorpious- wrote...

I like Ashley. She is a wonderful contrast to your average 'sex sells' female videogame lead.

With that said, her new ME3 look/hairstyle miffs me. Didn't Ashley mention in one of her conversations that she dislikes how impractical it is to dress "pretty" while on tour?

Yeah I hope she keeps her normal ME1 look in ME3, maybe let her hair down in a romance scene. She does look gorgeous with her hair down, but its not practical - which is ash.

[Brownfinger]

I can't speak for others, but I find her abrasive and tomboyish. The actress they choice for her voice (while talented) doesn't help. But maybe that's what they were going for, because she conveys it well.

The overt xenophobia is pretty unappealing, especially since a lot of people are emotionally invested in many of the aliens. Her religious leanings don't bother me at all, in fact it goes pretty far in the opposite direction. I can imagine that it's difficult indeed to stand by religious convictions in a future that has extra terrestrial life and ever apparent contradictions that fly in the face of all of it. It's an admirable quality, in that sense.
I don't much care for her, but kudos to Bioware for presenting her as she is and being totally unapologetic about it.

[gosimmons]

I think the Horizon scene was a letdown for a lot of people, increased negative views.
So hopefully her(or Kaiden's) part in ME3 will be well done.

[Endurium]

Wow lots of overly-sensitive people in here. Ash isn't as bad as some like to portray her.

@Apathy1989 - I tend to agree; would be nice if she let her hair down on the Normandy but put it up when anywhere else. I won't be too bothered if she keeps her hair down in ME3 though; I think she's prettier that way even if it is impractical.

[Computer_God91]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Doesn't matter anymore. When they really design Ash like the pic in the GI showed her, then the haters are to distracted by her catsuit and her upgraded boobies to hate.

Lmao  This is exactly what happened to one of my friends at school. He hated ash with a passion and then after he saw that pic he told me he wished he'd have saved her on Virmire. Funny, I want to find his post in this topic now.

[Abispa]

While I'm sure that Shepard will be able to reconcile his/her difference to the VS, I hope Bioware doesn't turn them into brown-nosers who beg for forgiveness. S/he will apologize, I'm sure, but there better be an option for Shepard to make up for coming off like a total DB on Horizon.

One of the things I liked about LofSB was how Liara, a character I had felt indifferent to, actually managed to grow a backbone and develop a personality not centered on Shepard. The illusion was successfully created that Liara and Shepard had to mutually agree on the terms of their relationship, friend or lover, and that Liara wasn't just standing around waiting for the metagame response to get her to make whoopee.

I hope the VS will get similar treatment, and that one of the VS, Liara or Jack put a bullet in Miranda, who I'm sure is just waiting for a chance to stab you in the back (I'm betting on TIM using a control chip).

[Computer_God91]

Soahfreako wrote...

I hate Ashley because she's racist. Simple as that, I could care less that she's religious. She has never survived past Virmire in any of my playthroughs.

She really isn't racist, she just doesn't trust aliens, which I understand cause I don't trust 90% of the people I know or the vast majority of the human race, so distrusting aliens is very understandable because you don't know what they are capable of. You don't like her because she doesn't trust Wrex or Garrus, whom you're totally in love with, which is probably what turned you off to her. Also look at my post just above this, someone totally called you out on your reaction to her ME3 apperance.

@OP, I don't hate Ashley oddly enough but thats because when it comes to peoples views and beliefs I'm not like the rest of the population where its "Believe what I believe or I hate you!" I just listen and hear them out then I either agree or disagree and move on. She has never really done anything to make me really hate her as a person, which I did end up romancing her on my first playthrough before I switched to Liara. I have saved her everytime on Virmire, but I'll be honest and say that a lot of my saving her is that she was a female and I'm a male so for some reason I feel that I need to save her rather then her superior whom is a male.

Modifié par Computer_God91, 29 avril 2011 - 01:36 .

[Volus Warlord]

Saying you don't hate anyone doesn't make you tolerant, it just makes you a liar.

Why can't people see through their own hypocrisy?

[Brownfinger]

It's weird when people deny her xenophobia. Ever speak to her on the Citadel? She says that she "can't tell the aliens from the animals". If anyone referenced any other human race in a derogatory fashion, comparing them to an animal, they'd be called a bigot on the spot.
Because they are.

Devotion to the character is fine, but not when it makes you naive and narrow.

[Abispa]

Sorry, my previous comments on Miranda were totally uncalled for. Here I am defending the Amazon goddess Ashley while expressing my own irrational hatred of Miranda. If you dig Miranda, I say good for you and God bless. 'Cause Ashley told me to.

[Abispa]

@ Brownfinger -- Most of the aliens ARE animals. As are humans. We're primates. Ninety-nine percent the same as chimpanzees and bonobos. Bonobos are cool.

[Brownfinger]

That's all fine and good, but you're ignoring intent.
If a Turian said "I can't tell the humans from the monkeys", would you take that as a scientific statement? No. It's an insult.

Twist it however you like, but you can't mask the intent.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Barquiel wrote...

Collider wrote...

The analogy is not very good.

this

And "I can't tell the aliens from the animals" didn't help either. I like Ashley, but that line is unneccesary...imo.

I think that line is the single biggest reason why some people believe she is racist. Other than that her comments just make her seem more pro-Alliance than pro-Council, and not all that different from Jacob or Miranda. Implying that other sapient beings that aren't human are like 'animals' however, makes the character seem racist. It was a mistake to include it if it wasn't the intention of the devs to make the character a racist, which seems to be the case. After all if Ash really was a racist she wouldn't condemn the Terra Firma party for being small-minded bigots.

If you bring Ashley along when Saraceno tries to solicit your support for the Terra Firma party, Ashley is confrontational with him, and condemns the party for it's xenophobia.

And before someone corrects me, I'm aware that the term 'speciest' would probably be more accurate than racist.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 29 avril 2011 - 02:02 .

[Endurium]

Well, if you insist on thinking of Ashley around the time you first meet her, yeah she's got a chip on her shoulder. However, by the end of ME1 she can be (Paragon Shep) far more accepting of the other species on the ship, and that's how I remember her. People can change.

Modifié par Endurium, 29 avril 2011 - 02:11 .