21 réponses à ce sujet

[Epitaffio]

Hi all, i'm trying to rescript and remodel krs_inventory_vfx , but i'm having some problems with supermodels (at least i think with supermodel).

Images are more effective than words.


Human (and all other races) male:
http://i51.tinypic.com/2e5ljdk.png


I use the "fall backward" animation, and the result is this:
http://i52.tinypic.com/v5uzr4.png


This not happen with female pc, so i think it's a supermodel problem (i read somewhere that from the 1.68 patch, the male supermodel are bugged).


Now, some info.

Patch 1.69
No exp

The scabbard is applied with the mdl provided in the original hak with a custom visualeffects.2da (original cleaned and fixed):
Type_FD = D
OrientWithGround = 0
Imp_Impact_Node = xrs_scabbardswd (the mdl)
OrientWithObject = 1

And with this simple script:
ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_PERMANENT, SupernaturalEffect(EffectVisualEffect(680)), oPc);


I've alredy tried to set different node in the 2da (only the impact and the head node seem to work), i have also tried to edit the male supermodel pmh0.mdl (however no 3D editing skill)



Any help, suggestion, hint?

[OldTimeRadio]

Download this archive, unpack the two models to your override directory (I think that should do it) and give it another try.  Better?

[Epitaffio]

Nope, same error T_T

btw thanks for the hint

[Epitaffio]

Little update, the error happen also when i use the fall back animation and then apply the vfx.. .-.

It's like the supermodel (or the impact node, i think) change when you use that animation T_T

[Epitaffio]

I've just found that mounting on a horse, reset and fix the position of the vfx, also the fallback animation while mounted is right *_*

Now, can i extract the position/animation of the horse and apply this to the fall back animation impact node? If yes, how?

I'm thinking also to extract the supermodel/a_ba from an old patch and try to override the 1.69 one, which one i should try, 1.67 maybe?

[OldTimeRadio]

Ok, give this a try.

What that is is a test module and a hak which contains a modified a_ba.mdl with a demo module showing the corrected behavior. In this case when you pull the lever in the module an arrow will appear in the back of your neck. Fall down backwards, get back up, and the arrow will still be in the back of your neck. Without the modified a_ba.mdl in the attached hak, however, it would rotate to somewhere around your right arm, so it should be a good stand-in for what you're seeing too.

I think I've narrowed this problem down to a_ba.mdl, there being a rotation key on the impact node someplace in there which is causing the problem. My solution? I removed all keyframes from the impact node in a_ba, period.

What the heck, right?  I mean, it's not like it's not attached to torso_g, anyway.  "Who needs keyframes when you're attached to torso_g?" is what I always say.



Just kidding.  I don't like the concept of passing out modified a_ba.mdl's as a solution, especially when the problem is likely contained in a tiny portion of one animation. So consider this a temporary fix just for you to test and not to be passed around as a real solution.  Let me know if it works.

[Epitaffio]

Let me know if it works.

Yep, it's perfect also with my custom vfx *_*

I don't like the concept of passing out modified a_ba.mdl's
as a solution, especially when the problem is likely contained in a tiny portion of one animation. So consider this a temporary fix just for you to test and not to be passed around as a real solution.

Why are you not consider this a solution, i mean, what are the negative aspects of leaving this as solution?


btw i love you *_*

[OldTimeRadio]

Well, just the process of decompiling a model, loading it up in Max and saving it introduces changes.  Just to go through that process without making any apparent changes, all sorts of changes actually happen.  It's almost always on some very small scale, like the position of a vertex going out to five decimal places instead of 7.  If this were something like a simple creature model it probably wouldn't be worth mentioning.

But a_ba is the Big Daddy and a lot of things plug into that.  So whatever changes (big or small) that my modified copy may or may not have introduced from the original will be reflected in almost all humanoids in the game, period.  On top of that, my "fix" was just to blow away both position and rotation keys for the Impact node in the entirety of a_ba: Not my idea of an elegant solution.

I'm kind of puzzled that this problem hasn't been mentioned before...at least to my knowledge.  You might want to ask around in the scripting forum because I can't imagine that the scripters there haven't seen this.  If it is more widely known, there may already be some (nicer) fix which just pulls out the bad tooth as opposed to the whole jaw.

Oh, and if you need to do massive amounts of searching in a hurry (i.e. to find out if this issue has been mentioned before), I recommend NWN Omnibus.  It's got a couple of the old BioWare custom content forums saved off and you can search them all at once.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 01 mai 2011 - 07:37 .

[Calvinthesneak]

I've found a few various items like this, both male and female. It seems in the 1.69 patch the nodes adjusted somewhere, I never could figure out where. I got some very odd behaviour on various robes with certain nodes on reverse orientation, or shifted to very odd positions. If desired I can dig up the examples, wouldn't take me too long.

[OldTimeRadio]

If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to see that.  If only just to sort of get an idea.  I don't know how much time I have to throw at this particular issue, myself, but just getting someone else's observations would be really handy.  Thanks!

Right now the culprit would seem to be (at least from the Track View - Curve Editor) starting around frames 6860-6870:


But as odd as it might seem that might be a canard, with the Impact node picking up keys from the whirlwind or something like that.  If the Impact node has any keys on it, or so goes my line of thinking, then whomever handled it at some point in the past ran a key baker.  Or maybe something to set bookend or "framing" keys automatically.  Or something like that.

Unless Impact is supposed to move around as a child of torso_g.  It's not, though, correct?  Impact should always stay where it is- I mean, at least in relation to torso_g... (?)

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 01 mai 2011 - 08:17 .

[Calvinthesneak]

No problem, will collect these right now. I should have a few examples.

[Epitaffio]

Oh, and if you need to do massive amounts of searching in a hurry (i.e. to find out if this issue has been mentioned before), I recommend NWN Omnibus.  It's got a couple of the old BioWare custom content forums saved off and you can search them all at once.

Oh yes, i've already downloaded and used your tool , but it gave me threads that i've alredy read  : (


I will follow your advice and i will open a thread in the scripting forum. Thanks for all



edit: i just read the other post, my 3D editing skill are near the zero, so i don't known what you are talking about, but i will try to follow you ^_^"

Modifié par Epitaffio, 01 mai 2011 - 08:12 .

[OldTimeRadio]

You're welcome and Epitaffio when you get that done I'd love to see it on the Vault. I had wanted to mess with something like that for a futuristic wasteland version of visible gear.

[Calvinthesneak]

As a note all of these are robes, and all of them worked correctly with the 1.68 version.  When 1.69 came out the nodes altered somehow, I have opened the models in 3ds and not seen any issues, which makes me suspect the supermodels themselves.

The robe models can be found in this hak:  http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=7286
models: 200, 201, 202, 205, 206

If you have questions, PM me or post back

Modifié par Calvinthesneak, 01 mai 2011 - 08:46 .

[OldTimeRadio]

Calvinthesneak, the problem you're dealing with there is really bad.  Too bad to be a mere node problem, but maybe just as difficult to track down if you haven't dealt with this kind of thing before. 

So I Ioaded up the pmh0_robe201.mdl from the hak you linked to and hit CTRL-A to select all.  This is what that looked like:


Notice how each model is surrounded by a bounding box and all the boxes are neatly aligned...except for one?  Clicking around, sure enough, it was the quiver/satchel thing that wasn't displaying right.  To reset the transforms and make NWN display it like Max does, all that needs to be done is to select the problematic object and click the ResetXForm without Safe Pivots checked.  The bounding box orients itself as it should and the model is ready for export.  Be sure to copy it into the hak instead of testing it from your override directory.



I'm using NWMax Plus by Michael Darkangel but the exact same thing works under regular NWMax.  Here's that model, fixed.  The rest of the problems shoud be solvable with that method.

[OldTimeRadio]

Epitaffio,

This, I believe, is the latest a_ba.mdl which has only been decompiled, then edited by hand in a text editor to remove all Impact node animation keyframes.

So I wound up blowing all the Impact node keyframes away, anyway.  I just didn't expose the data of the a_ba.mdl to NWMax import/export routine.

I took a look at the keys that were on the impact node and there were only something like 13 animations (out of all of a_ba) where the Impact node had keyframes at all.  On looking at the actual data stored in them, they didn't appear to have been created for any useful purpose that I could see.  And one of them I knew to be incorrect.  So bye bye.

Now the Earth could end or something because of this but I don't think that's going to happen.  Still, test it out and let me know either here or by PM (if any length of time has passed).  Again, unless I'm missing something about Impact node, this would be the same deal as the Tail node (which is attached to pelvis_g) and the Tail node is much cleaner, only having keys during custom4start, custom4lp & custom4end.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 02 mai 2011 - 01:30 .

[Calvinthesneak]

Thank you very much, I'm more than familiar enough with NWMax to reset XForms.

I will attempt to play with the steps you suggested. I have little experience with modelling unfortunately, but I think I should be able to manage this.

My question is why would the model display so differently from 1.68 to 1.69 when the animation supermodels changed?

Also on a different note, In the past I took Vaei's old custom animations and just with a text editor inserted them into the a_fa, a_ba_noncombat. Now I've seen a few odd behaviours as a result, minor indescrepencies, such as cloaks not animating properly for dwarves and such oddities. I definately have no clue with animations, well at least not much of a clue.

The work can be found here: http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=1334

The comments contains a link to Vaei's original animations as well. I made no claim to have done the animation conversion perfectly, I did a hack job with pasting in custom animations.


Anyhow if you don't want to look at them it's fine, I did this stuff like 3 years ago, but I've not done anything with animations before or after, was the extent of my experience.

Modifié par Calvinthesneak, 02 mai 2011 - 03:16 .

[Epitaffio]

@calvin: those are the vfx cointained in the adventures kit, i'm right? I would to include those (model in the original hak, at least) other then the krs_inventory, but same error as the one with krs, don't know if the original model can be fixed with the oldtimeradio fix. I'm not at home and can't test it : (


@oldtimeradio: you're my hero, really, thanks for all time time spent in this. But just for clarity, this can be consider like a final fix? (if it not create strange bugs, obviously) :**

[OldTimeRadio]

Epitaffio wrote...
@oldtimeradio: you're my hero, really, thanks for all time time spent in this. But just for clarity, this can be consider like a final fix? (if it not create strange bugs, obviously) :**

Yeah, as long as this doesn't seem to create new problems, this is the "cleanest" way I can think of to make the modifications and not hurt anything else.  So yeah.  Maybe in the future I might try compiling it but that would probably be after I take a stab at cleaning up the whole supermodel chain for this and maybe other simple things.  Which I probably wouldn't get to in 2011, if at all.  But give me any feedback or issues you come across because I might upload what I just shared with you to the Vault at some point.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 02 mai 2011 - 02:37 .

[OldTimeRadio]

Calvinthesneak wrote...
My question is why would the model
display so differently from 1.68 to 1.69 when the animation supermodels
changed?

No idea.

Calvinthesneak wrote...
Also on a different note, In the past I took Vaei's old custom animations and just with a text editor inserted them into the a_fa, a_ba_noncombat. Now I've seen a few odd behaviours as a result, minor indescrepencies, such as cloaks not animating properly for dwarves and such oddities. I definately have no clue with animations, well at least not much of a clue.

I haven't really done much on this, so I don't have an opinion.  But if done correctly and carefully, placing animations inside a text file without putting the model through Max import/export seems to be the preferred method in every way, IMO.  I  probably won't be able to allocate time to look at those (and I'm not sure I'd be much help if I could).

If anything, if I had more free time I'd be pursuing the creation of entirely new animations using a refined version of this method or something derived from it.

Click on the "BLOG" link in my sig to take a look at some of the test videos to see that method in action.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 02 mai 2011 - 02:44 .

[Calvinthesneak]

Epitaffio wrote...

@calvin: those are the vfx cointained in the adventures kit, i'm right? I would to include those (model in the original hak, at least) other then the krs_inventory, but same error as the one with krs, don't know if the original model can be fixed with the oldtimeradio fix. I'm not at home and can't test it : (

I think originally those items came from the adventure gear yes.  I'm not sure.  They are robes, and I did fix them, though there are some texture issues.  I simply fix the human versions and then produce copies for other races using NWMax.

I haven't really done much on this, so I don't have an opinion. But if done correctly and carefully, placing animations inside a text file without putting the model through Max import/export seems to be the preferred method in every way, IMO. I probably won't be able to allocate time to look at those (and I'm not sure I'd be much help if I could).

The supermodels/animations I referred to after came from Vaei.  I've fiddled with those for years, and always had minor inconsistancies and issues.  I always thought it was simply a result of animations not being created for 1.69.  I was fairly careful in my creation, but if there is someone with skill/experience with 3d modelling and animating that can do them better I always welcome it.  I'm a programmer by trade, not an animator.

Again this is quite old, but might be of use to read this topic as it talks about the custom animations that got left behind in the supermodels in slots 1-10.  http://nwn.bioware.c...1&forum=48&sp=0

Modifié par Calvinthesneak, 02 mai 2011 - 04:29 .

[Epitaffio]

But give me any feedback or issues you come across because I might upload what I just shared with you to the Vault at some point.

You can bet it ; )