113 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

TobiTobsen wrote...

The "Faith" quest is Lelianas and DA2 Horizon.

Strange writing for established characters to further the plot.

Now that you mention it, "Faith" does remind me a great deal of the ME2 Horizon plot debacle especially if you had Ashley being the NPC in question.

-Polaris

[snfonseka]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[IanPolaris]

snfonseka wrote...

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I don't think this question every occured to the Chantry (at least not seriously) as long as they controlled the magic and thus the power.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

You mind telling me exactly which dialog option leads to it then? Because I saw most of them and there wasn't much difference.

It's not beside the point. Mages can be dangerous, particularly ones that have demonstrated to have been violent. The Resolutionists attacked her based only on the fact she was working for the Divine. Being worried about the dangers of a mage rebellion doesn't make one "anti mage."

It is very much besides the point.  Lelianna states that Kirkwall can not fall to magic (and adds especially after what happened in Fereldan if the Mage's boon was granted).  How is that NOT anti-mage?  She isn't distinquishing rebellious mages from non-rebellious mages.  She is painting all mages in a universal black light and I am certain (I'll go through the dialog options again) that she does refer to the Imperium at least once.

As for mages can be dangerous....well so can anyone as Lelianna knows perfectly well.

Boo.  Hiss. Bioware.

-Polaris

What happened in Ferelden had NOTHING to do with teh mage boon. What happened in Ferelden is unknown to us, but clearly something happened.
And if the Mages rebel in Kirkwall, where then would they go? Home? Or would they stay in irkwall and take control? THAT is why they call it a new Imperium. That is why it can't be allowed to fall to magic. And that is why the Divine is concerned.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And if the mages rebel in Kirkwall, where will they go? Or would they stay in Kirkwall and take control?

You mean they would supplant the templars as the new power over eastern Thedas? If they established a society where mages and non-mages are treated fairly, established clinics to heal people, protected the people from any invading Qunari forces, and established ties with the Grey Wardens to aid in battles against the darkspawn, I don't see the problem. There is no democracy in Thedas, from what we have seen. And mages ruling doesn't make them the same as the enslaving and oppressive regime of the Imperium.

[Sanarion]

That's going to be an awkward meeting when my Anti-Temple Bloodmage Warden..that was her lover shows up.

[snfonseka]

Sanarion wrote...

That's going to be an awkward meeting when my Anti-Temple Bloodmage Warden..that was her lover shows up.

^Same here. But it is not Anti-Temple Bloodmage Warden, it is Anti-Temple Warrior Warden

[Critical Miss]

snfonseka wrote...

Sanarion wrote...

That's going to be an awkward meeting when my Anti-Temple Bloodmage Warden..that was her lover shows up.

^Same here. But it is not Anti-Temple Bloodmage Warden, it is Anti-Temple Warrior Warden

I don't get it. Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in political matters. But in DAO the warden was doing just that.

[Herr Uhl]

Critical Miss wrote...

I don't get it. Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in political matters. But in DAO the warden was doing just that.

And the order was not impressed.

[IanPolaris]

Critical Miss wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Sanarion wrote...

That's going to be an awkward meeting when my Anti-Temple Bloodmage Warden..that was her lover shows up.

^Same here. But it is not Anti-Temple Bloodmage Warden, it is Anti-Temple Warrior Warden

I don't get it. Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in political matters. But in DAO the warden was doing just that.

The Order tolerated it because it was the only way to fight the blight.  As you say (or can say) in Soldier's peak when Levi raises this same point, "The Blight Changes Everything".  It's pretty clear they didn't care for it.  Grey Wardens remind me a bit of the Swiss really (and I think they are meant to).

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

[dp]

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

Critical Miss wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Sanarion wrote...

That's going to be an awkward meeting when my Anti-Temple Bloodmage Warden..that was her lover shows up.

^Same here. But it is not Anti-Temple Bloodmage Warden, it is Anti-Temple Warrior Warden

I don't get it. Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in political matters. But in DAO the warden was doing just that.

The Order tolerated it because it was the only way to fight the blight.  As you say (or can say) in Soldier's peak when Levi raises this same point, "The Blight Changes Everything".  It's pretty clear they didn't care for it.  Grey Wardens remind me a bit of the Swiss really (and I think they are meant to).

-Polaris

They only tolerated it? The Wardens are anti-wardens!!!

[Wulfram]

Leliana definitely gives off an anti-mage vibe in DA2. But it's a short cameo and the context is that she's fighting a bunch of mage terrorists, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

[EmperorSahlertz]

SHe says, that the Libertarians and the Resolutionist has been tolerated for the rebellious nature. Is that directly anti-mage or just stating facts? (I'll save you time and answer myself) She only states facts in this matter. Libertarians and Resolutionist are spreading rebellious indeas against the organization they serve, the Chantry was in their full right to have them all flogged, imprisoned or worse, yet they allowed them. They tolerated them.

She also says that what happend in Ferelden must not be allowed to happen in Kirkwall. What happened in Ferelden? No one knows. But chances are, what happened will be elaborated upon later. But is what she said directly anti-mage? NO. We don't know what has happened in Ferelden, so to state it as anti-mage is blatantly ignorant.

So exactly where does Lelianna outright say: "Mages are zeh evil and must die!!!1one"? I ask of you to show me. Cause so far, all you have shown is your own interpretations and wild specuations. Which (like it or not) owns up to just a little more than fanfic.

[Ulicus]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Critical Miss wrote...

I don't get it. Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in political matters. But in DAO the warden was doing just that.

And the order was not impressed.

I almost think that makes more sense as a reference to the Wardens being exiled for trying to overthrow the tyrannical king two hundred years previously than it does to the successful efforts of two Wardens to stop the Fifth Blight. The idea that the order was annoyed with how they handled the situation seems... at odds with the First Warden's rather ecstatic reaction to the Wardens being granted Amaranthine and political clout.

Of course, something else could have happened later... but the idea that the order "wasn't impressed" by how the last two Ferelden Wardens handled the Blight boggles the mind.

Modifié par Ulicus, 01 mai 2011 - 09:45 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Ulicus wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Critical Miss wrote...

I don't get it. Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in political matters. But in DAO the warden was doing just that.

And the order was not impressed.

I almost think that makes more sense as a reference to the Wardens being exiled for trying to overthrow the tyrannical king two hundred years previously than it does to the successful efforts of two Wardens to stop the Fifth Blight. The idea that the order was annoyed with how they handled the situation seems... at odds with the First Warden's rather ecstatic reaction to the Wardens being granted Amaranthine and political clout.

Of course, something else could have happened later... but the idea that the order "wasn't impressed" by how the last two Ferelden Wardens handled the Blight boggles the mind.

The Wardens would probably have prefered if Alistair and the Hero had simply left Ferelden and sought out the Orlesian Wardens for asistance. Now the Wardens have been invovled in Ferelden politics, and keep being so by having Amaranthine granted to them. This may complicate matters, which may be why the First Warden was less than impressed by it.

[LobselVith8]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Critical Miss wrote...

I don't get it. Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in political matters. But in DAO the warden was doing just that.

And the order was not impressed.

Mistress Woolsey mentions how important the First Warden sees Amaranthine, as it can establish a precedence of importance for Wardens when there isn't a Blight, and the Hero of Ferelden was given the rank of Warden-Commander.

[Ulicus]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Critical Miss wrote...

I don't get it. Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in political matters. But in DAO the warden was doing just that.

And the order was not impressed.

I almost think that makes more sense as a reference to the Wardens being exiled for trying to overthrow the tyrannical king two hundred years previously than it does to the successful efforts of two Wardens to stop the Fifth Blight. The idea that the order was annoyed with how they handled the situation seems... at odds with the First Warden's rather ecstatic reaction to the Wardens being granted Amaranthine and political clout.

Of course, something else could have happened later... but the idea that the order "wasn't impressed" by how the last two Ferelden Wardens handled the Blight boggles the mind.

The Wardens would probably have prefered if Alistair and the Hero had simply left Ferelden and sought out the Orlesian Wardens for asistance. Now the Wardens have been invovled in Ferelden politics, and keep being so by having Amaranthine granted to them. This may complicate matters, which may be why the First Warden was less than impressed by it.

But as the preceding post and my own mentions: the First Warden's reaction to being given Amaranthine was "VOID YEAH, BABY! THIS IS AWESOME!"

[EmperorSahlertz]

Ulicus wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Critical Miss wrote...

I don't get it. Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in political matters. But in DAO the warden was doing just that.

And the order was not impressed.

I almost think that makes more sense as a reference to the Wardens being exiled for trying to overthrow the tyrannical king two hundred years previously than it does to the successful efforts of two Wardens to stop the Fifth Blight. The idea that the order was annoyed with how they handled the situation seems... at odds with the First Warden's rather ecstatic reaction to the Wardens being granted Amaranthine and political clout.

Of course, something else could have happened later... but the idea that the order "wasn't impressed" by how the last two Ferelden Wardens handled the Blight boggles the mind.

The Wardens would probably have prefered if Alistair and the Hero had simply left Ferelden and sought out the Orlesian Wardens for asistance. Now the Wardens have been invovled in Ferelden politics, and keep being so by having Amaranthine granted to them. This may complicate matters, which may be why the First Warden was less than impressed by it.

But as the preceding post and my own mentions: the First Warden's reaction to being given Amaranthine was "VOID YEAH, BABY! THIS IS AWESOME!"

Thats not really his reaction. He merely recognizes that now that they've got Amaranthine, it IS important to keep it. He is certainly still not happy about being involved in politics... Outside of the Anderfels anyway...

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Thats not really his reaction. He merely recognizes that now that they've got Amaranthine, it IS important to keep it. He is certainly still not happy about being involved in politics... Outside of the Anderfels anyway...

You seem to be interjecting your opinions here on the issue. It's mentioned by Riordian that the people in the Anderfels turn to the Wardens because they have a weak King, and that the Wardens prefer it that way. There is a clear difference between how the Wardens in the Anderfels operate, and how Riordian (and likely Stroud) thinks they should act. I doubt that the Hero of Ferelden would be made the Warden-Commander if the First Warden was displeased. If he wants Amaranthine to be a success for the order since it establishes a precedence for the Wardens during the time when there isn't a Blight, I don't share your opinion that he was unhappy.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 01 mai 2011 - 10:40 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Thats not really his reaction. He merely recognizes that now that they've got Amaranthine, it IS important to keep it. He is certainly still not happy about being involved in politics... Outside of the Anderfels anyway...

You seem to be interjecting your opinions here on the issue. It's mentioned by Riordian that the Wardens in the Anderfels rule the place because they have a weak King, and I doubt that the Hero of Ferelden would be made the Warden-Commander if the First Warden was displeased. If he wants Amaranthine to be a success for the order since it establishes a precedence for the Wardens during the time when there isn't a Blight, I don't share your opinion that he was unhappy.

I'm not saying he was unhappy. Just that he would ahve rather not gotten involved in politics. But now that he is, he recognizes the importance of Amaranthine.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'm not saying he was unhappy. Just that he would ahve rather not gotten involved in politics. But now that he is, he recognizes the importance of Amaranthine.

Alistair's line in DA2 as a Grey Warden refers to the order, not the First Warden. He could have easily been referring to others in the order echoing this sentiment, like Stroud, who seems to be familiar with Anders (to the point where he says that they're even if Anders asks for his help in the Deep Roads). The only character who makes mention about what the First Warden wants is Mistress Woolsey. If the First Warden didn't want to get involved in politics, then I don't see why he would want the Warden-Commander to success so that Amaranthine could be a precedence for the order.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 01 mai 2011 - 10:45 .

[Lewie]

The wardens are past, kirkwall is present. As if Alistair 'regardless' cared about the chantry he was sent there and hated it. What does this have to do with the seekers? Not get involved in politics? Considering that you and alistair were the only 2 grey wardens left and had to use the treaties, which were 'eligble' for use in the world of ferelden, how else could they gather an army to defeat a blight? They didn't want power they wanted the archdemon dead. Echoing what characters may, or may not 'think' is speculative but origins and awakenings are done.

Modifié par louise101, 02 mai 2011 - 12:05 .

[snfonseka]

Let's talk about Seekers, not Wardens.

[HSHAW]

snfonseka wrote...

Let's talk about Seekers, not Wardens.

Threads drift, especially when there is little to discuss.

Also, how long after Act 3 was Varric's capture?