1033 réponses à ce sujet

[Urazz]

Night Prowler76 wrote...
Its doing well against 2 mediocre shooters and getting destroyed by Pokemon and Call of duty, when Origins sold over 4 million and the sequal is going to be lucky to sell 2 million copies, there is a problem.

Are you kidding both of those games are more mainstream than Dragon Age: Origins ever was.  Pokeman especially with all it's toys, TV shows, movies, etc.  You can't get more mainstream than that.

Call of Duty is one of the major first person shooter series people get.  The only other one that would probably beat that is a Halo game.

You also don't factor in stuff like DAO being released right on the holiday season pretty much.  Also, where was the advertising for DA2?  It really felt like there was alot less advertising for DA2 compared to DAO.  If anything, I think Bioware/EA were experimenting on advertising as well with this game with trying some unconventional means to advertise the game.

Sure there may be a problem but it's not that bad as the doomsayers and haters think.

Modifié par Urazz, 30 avril 2011 - 12:01 .

[Foolsfolly]

I hate Dragon Age 2 as much as most people but I do not agree that the characters are worse then the first game. David Gaider is a tremendously gifted writer.

I like the DA2 characters a lot. They're good characters.

But I'll tell you this easily and freely. They're not as memorable as the DA:O crowd. Alistair, Morrigan, Sten, Oghren, and Leliana were memorable characters that I loved. Just like KOTOR had Canderous, Carth, Bastilia, Mission, and Jolee who were instantly memorable and loved.

The DA2 characters are fine characters. In many ways they are superior to the DA:O companions....but they're not so easily endeared to the player.

Sad that you have had bugs when you got the game but I sure didn't and they are patching the game.

I can't believe you didn't have bugs in your game. There's two gamebreaking bugs that you're likely to get without being forewarned about (Friendship bugs with Isabela and Sebastien). And to get those bugs? You're friends with the characters and have the audacity to save the game at night, during a mission, at the mansion, or out of the city.

It was extremely common and much complained about. I lost a character to it, myself. It took over a month for BioWare to patch that. For perspective, since downloading the patch I have not even gone back to the game. I imagine many other gamers are similar, especially non-BioWare fans who picked up the game.

Shoddy work.

Pokemon has such a big fanbase and following that it can destroy ANY game you suggest. Don't compare that to DA2 like it matters. We all know the sales suck for DA2 right now so there is no reason to just keep bringing up sales week after week. Yeah we know profits are ****. Get over it.

Agreed. Pokemon's unstoppable and more importantly, it's an entirely different market (younger crowd, and handheld markets).

[_Aine_]

skan5 wrote...

... I DO plan to get playing that Overlord pack, I really do! ....
...
Ah who am I kidding... I am so guilty of this...

Heh I do the same. I buy them when they are cheap enough I just don't care if I do though, either.   When they end up really lousy though, I care.  Like when I decided to try Flashpoint again.   Either my memory made the old game sweeter than it was, or the new one was just not what I wanted when I tried it..... oO 

I find these threads interesting too though.  I don't think ultimately even 2 months worth of sales can be used to *accurately* predict long term ranking,but what do I know. Maybe it can.  I do know there are two things skewing results 1) DAO was before xmas to boost numbers  and 2) DA2 enjoyed pre-orders and DAO's rep to boost numbers.  Would it be an equal offset?? No clue.  

[Night Prowler76]

Urazz wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...
Its doing well against 2 mediocre shooters and getting destroyed by Pokemon and Call of duty, when Origins sold over 4 million and the sequal is going to be lucky to sell 2 million copies, there is a problem.

Are you kidding both of those games are more mainstream than Dragon Age: Origins ever was.  Pokeman especially with all it's toys, TV shows, movies, etc.  You can't get more mainstream than that.

Call of Duty is one of the major first person shooter series people get.  The only other one that would probably beat that is a Halo game.

You also don't factor in stuff like DAO being released right on the holiday season pretty much.  Also, where was the advertising for DA2?  It really felt like there was alot less advertising for DA2 compared to DAO.  If anything, I think Bioware/EA were experimenting on advertising as well with this game with trying some unconventional means to advertise the game.

Sure there may be a problem but it's not that bad as the doomsayers and haters think.

  Hmmmm, I will be honest, I never saw that much advertising for DAO, maybe I dont watch the stations they advertise on alot, I saw a little bit for DA2 but not alot, so I dont really know how they spent their advertising money, perhaps that was one of their downfalls, I will admit I dislike alot of changes to the DA series, I wouldnt say I "hate" the game, im just generally disappointed, and I do hope their is a DA3, but only if it gets more dev time and more care is taken to make it, if thats not the case I doesnt matter at all then.

  Im not out to start a fight about sales, but from what I can see, when a sequeal does not sell as well as the one before it, the game is usually sub-par or the base loses interest, as you can see, games like COD/Pokemon/Uncharted/Gears etc grow with each installment,  with DA2 I would say its sub-par IMO, and it actually has shrunk its own base.

Modifié par Night Prowler76, 30 avril 2011 - 12:13 .

[Foolsfolly]

@ Night Prowler76:

I didn't see any advertising for DA:O.

Any.

I got it suggested to me by Amazon. THAT'S when I heard about the game.

[Night Prowler76]

Foolsfolly wrote...

@ Night Prowler76:

I didn't see any advertising for DA:O.

Any.

I got it suggested to me by Amazon. THAT'S when I heard about the game.

Hmmm, then it just wasnt me, the only reason I got DAO was because a friend of mine bought it around 6 mths ago and I was bored with all my games and asked him if it was good, he said yes and I was hooked lol

It would be interesting to see the advertising budget for both titles, thats for sure.

[Elhanan]

Sabriana wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

heh! Good luck with that; hope you ain't on commission....

Hey.. not everyone on commission is a liar and a thief.

(which is what you are if you knowingly sell people something you think is a very bad product while telling them it's great)

Not to mention that lyng to your customers will make you lose credibility. The money is in the return customer, not the one-time-haha-I got your money customer.

Yes, you should be honest. If returns and plummeting sales are happening, something is wrong. Tell your customers ot try it out first, or research more. You don't even have to say "it's bad". But deceiving a customer will lead to that person to never, ever trust you again. And perhaps try a new store.

Note: No, this is not an analogy to DA 2. Even though I was very, very disappointed in it, I still think that Bioware is a superb team. I'll find out later, but I'll not abandon them. Not yet.

*Off Topic*

I am not supporting deception at all, but discretion, diplomacy, and a pinch of common sense. If an opinion is asked, then give an informed one. But spouting off personal POV may be poor for return business, sales, and even may jeopordize your job. Fokls should keep in mind that people will jump to conclusions easily; see these forums for examples.

*Returns to regular combat difficulty*

[Elhanan]

Aldaris951 wrote...

Well David it's your job on the line at the end of the day. If EA needs to make some cuts I'm sure the dragon age team is out of the door first.

Well, as long as you're sure....

*waits to see if they will weigh DG with a duck*

[Foolsfolly]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

@ Night Prowler76:

I didn't see any advertising for DA:O.

Any.

I got it suggested to me by Amazon. THAT'S when I heard about the game.

Hmmm, then it just wasnt me, the only reason I got DAO was because a friend of mine bought it around 6 mths ago and I was bored with all my games and asked him if it was good, he said yes and I was hooked lol

It would be interesting to see the advertising budget for both titles, thats for sure.

Pfft. There's next to no budget for Origins and a rather impressive budget for DA2. There was the facebook game, a multi-console demo, commericals on major networks and targeting key demographics (fantasy/sci-fi fans saw it on Syfy Channel; the high school/college demo got hit by near constant commericals on Adult Swim).

It wasn't a huge media blitz like Rockstar is able to do, but it wasn't a small advertising budget.

[MyKingdomCold]

while I have seen quite a few commercials for DA 2, I had also seen quite a few commercials and ads for Dragon Age:Origins. It was this commercial http://www.youtube.c...?v=dZ3VJLtCs5c. I would probably see it at least a few times a day for awhile before and after the game launched.

Plus, since it seemed like almost every other retailer had an "exclusive" preorder item for Origins, I saw ads in stores and clerks pushing preorders to pick up those exclusive items.

[astrallite]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

astrallite wrote...

Shelving a product for 9 months means no cash flow. That makes no sense. Bioware isn't filling their coffers with a MMO in the background or have insane cash reserves.

This post shows how little the average person actually knows concerning the video game industry. Spouting off nonsense as if it was in fact... a fact.

Here's the real truth. BioWare has been making games for close to 20 years. In those years they have had successful hit after successful hit. In the last few years the notable hits being; Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, and Jade Empire. They are also backed by an industry giant, EA.

At the ends of the day... they have the money to make great games. They just are showing us that they either don't care about their glory days of producing great games, their reputations, or the customer. So what we are seeing right now is a decline in quality either attributed to their talent pool, this is where most fingers are pointing (looking at you Mike Laidlaw and Yaron Jacobs) OR the company is no longer in control of the games that they are developing, which is also quite possible but the later scenario is the most worrying if true.

And some of you might be saying to yourselves... "Who is Yaron Jacobs?" And the answer is; He is the guy who is responsible for the reused maps and the empty, uninteresting, and unchanging town of Kirkwall. He is the lead level designer who forgot that as time passes environments change (like 10 years pass and you will find the same people standing in the same spots, NOTHING changes in 10 years...) and that RPG players aren't stupid and will notice when a map is reused over and over and over again.

This post shows how little you know about business. They made money so they should have money to burn and sit on a product for 9 months? Public companies have to deal with quarterly reports and shareholders.

I know little about the video game history? You are right, I know very little. Nothing in your post indicates you know any more--sprouting off nonsense about "glory?". What was the point of your statement? 12 year olds are getting good at trolling these days. Concession accepted.

Modifié par astrallite, 30 avril 2011 - 01:27 .

[Aaleel]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

At the ends of the day... they have the money to make great games. They just are showing us that they either don't care about their glory days of producing great games, their reputations, or the customer. So what we are seeing right now is a decline in quality either attributed to their talent pool, this is where most fingers are pointing (looking at you Mike Laidlaw and Yaron Jacobs) OR the company is no longer in control of the games that they are developing, which is also quite possible but the later scenario is the most worrying if true.

And some of you might be saying to yourselves... "Who is Yaron Jacobs?" And the answer is; He is the guy who is responsible for the reused maps and the empty, uninteresting, and unchanging town of Kirkwall. He is the lead level designer who forgot that as time passes environments change (like 10 years pass and you will find the same people standing in the same spots, NOTHING changes in 10 years...) and that RPG players aren't stupid and will notice when a map is reused over and over and over again.

He didn't forget.

Q: Could prolonging development time for the game result in a better
variety within the city itself and avoiding reused areas, as seen in the
game?

A: Obviously, more time would enable more areas and bigger
variation. Honestly, we did not expect this to be such a big deal, but
it seems the subject gave rise to a significant number of complaints by
both critics and players alike. We listen to the reviews and we will try
to address the issue in future games.

He didn't think it would be a big deal to us.

As far as the empty city.

Q: Why are the city's streets not as crowded as one can expect from a
city as congested as Kirkwall? Is it due to technical limitations?

A:
Yes, this is completely due to technical limitation. We had more people
crowding the streets in early stages of development but we had to cut
the number to be able to cope with the limitations of game consoles and
low-end computers.


I don't even have a comment on this one.

Modifié par Aaleel, 30 avril 2011 - 01:49 .

[SirGladiator]

I think Ray has indicated quite clearly that he understands what fans liked about DAO and didn't like about DA2, and that DA3 will give the fans what they want. These sales figures aren't possible for him, or any other high level fellow at Bioware or EA to ignore. They've taken notice, they've seen DAO is the best selling Bioware game of all time, and DA2 is their worst selling game in a long time. Its not hard to figure out which one DA3 is going to resemble, Ray is going to make sure of that.

It really is sad how bad the sales numbers are, I mean clearly the game isn't as good as DAO but it probably didn't deserve numbers quite 'this' awful. I suppose the most positive way of looking at this for Bioware is that they've still got TOR and ME3 coming out relatively soon, plenty of opportunity to get back on a successful track, get everybody talking about how awesome Bioware games are again, and build momentum for DA3, which no doubt will be the awesome game that DA2 should've been.

[Zeevico]

ConnorHawke wrote...

And if I could ask David Gaider one thing it would be: Why, oh why, have you adopted the IGN, Call of Duty worshipping, oversimplified meme that sophisticated RPG's can't have broad appeal?

The beauty of DA:O was that through tremendous effort and love of detail YOU PROVED THEM WRONG! You won!

Pyrhhic victory. It cost too much time and money to make DAO.

[Rawgrim]

I know I wont never ever pay full price for a BIoware game ever again. Neither will I pre-prder. DA2 was half a game. And it showed.

[Zeevico]

Merced652 wrote...

Rixxencaxx wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Not to suggest anything beyond this, but if one is going to compare the sales of the two games one might also wish to take into account the fact that Origins was released shortly before Christmas. Beyond that, whatever extrapolations you wish to make are up to you.

......and continued to sell better than da2 even after christmas........and as a new ip had lower preorders......and  someone is in denial

You should've just linked it back to his post on the 5 stages. 

One of you has the actual sales figures for DAO on hand, years of experience in the gaming industry, and probably some not too shabby estimates of DA2 sales (if not actual figures).

Guess which one?

Modifié par Zeevico, 30 avril 2011 - 02:44 .

[Elhanan]

Rawgrim wrote...

I know I wont never ever pay full price for a BIoware game ever again. Neither will I pre-prder. DA2 was half a game. And it showed.

Seems to match one's mental acuity. And it shows.

[Oopsieoops]

SirGladiator wrote...

I think Ray has indicated quite clearly that he understands what fans liked about DAO and didn't like about DA2, and that DA3 will give the fans what they want. These sales figures aren't possible for him, or any other high level fellow at Bioware or EA to ignore. They've taken notice, they've seen DAO is the best selling Bioware game of all time, and DA2 is their worst selling game in a long time. Its not hard to figure out which one DA3 is going to resemble, Ray is going to make sure of that.

It really is sad how bad the sales numbers are, I mean clearly the game isn't as good as DAO but it probably didn't deserve numbers quite 'this' awful. I suppose the most positive way of looking at this for Bioware is that they've still got TOR and ME3 coming out relatively soon, plenty of opportunity to get back on a successful track, get everybody talking about how awesome Bioware games are again, and build momentum for DA3, which no doubt will be the awesome game that DA2 should've been.

The thing is it's out of their hands. I have no doubt DA:RtP wasn't really Bioware's decision. It's EA's standard procedure: take over a company, meddle into their style to become a mainstream butchered version of their games, and if the games flunk, dissolve the studio in question. Just look at Westwood and Command & Conquer Or better yet, at Origins and Ultima. Ultima 8 and 9 were mainstreamed rush-jobs released while Richard Garriott (the series' creator) jumped and screamed in protest. Sounds familiar?

[Oopsieoops]

Elhanan wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I know I wont never ever pay full price for a BIoware game ever again. Neither will I pre-prder. DA2 was half a game. And it showed.

Seems to match one's mental acuity. And it shows.

Inversely, yes.

[Elhanan]

Oopsieoops wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I know I wont never ever pay full price for a BIoware game ever again. Neither will I pre-prder. DA2 was half a game. And it showed.

Seems to match one's mental acuity. And it shows.

Inversely, yes.

Why thank you!

[A.Saturnus]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Its doing well against 2 mediocre shooters and getting destroyed by Pokemon and Call of duty, when Origins sold over 4 million and the sequal is going to be lucky to sell 2 million copies, there is a problem.

Not necessarily. What many people here overlook is the fact that production cost of DA2 was likely only a fraction from DA:O production cost. So if it sells 2 million copies, it might still be MORE successful than DA:O. Of course, this definition of success ignores things like customer loyalty.

[Foolsfolly]

Aaleel wrote...

He didn't forget.

Q: Could prolonging development time for the game result in a better
variety within the city itself and avoiding reused areas, as seen in the
game?

A: Obviously, more time would enable more areas and bigger
variation. Honestly, we did not expect this to be such a big deal, but
it seems the subject gave rise to a significant number of complaints by
both critics and players alike. We listen to the reviews and we will try
to address the issue in future games.

He didn't think it would be a big deal to us.

As far as the empty city.

Q: Why are the city's streets not as crowded as one can expect from a
city as congested as Kirkwall? Is it due to technical limitations?

A:
Yes, this is completely due to technical limitation. We had more people
crowding the streets in early stages of development but we had to cut
the number to be able to cope with the limitations of game consoles and
low-end computers.


I don't even have a comment on this one.

Huh.

First off, I heard them say something similar about reusing maps. They didn't think it would be a big deal.

How could reusing maps and staying in one generic, underpopulated, boring, stale, unchanging city not register with these guys?

And the last bit about making way for low end computers and consoles.....what? The outdated computer owner, sorry, guy. Get a better computer or grab a console. As for the consoles, oh you mean the consoles that can generate all of Liberty City in one short bit of loading?

I don't buy your excuse at all, BioWare. I don't think the streets were ever more populated and if they were they were only cut because you couldn't script for the crowds to leave during a fight. So during all the massive random ninja attacks the whole crowd was still in the streets (like they are in the finished game but more of them).

That sounds more like the answer to why the city's underpopulated.