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Dragon Age 2 Week 8 sales - Updated


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#501
Zjarcal

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Persephone wrote...
And I feel the same way about DAII. Only I'm a tad more protective because it got stabbed more than Caesar did when the Ides Of March rolled around. 


Hehe, same here. I still love and will always love Origins to pieces. In certain aspects (music, atmosphere, environments, and the climax of the story) I love it more than DA2, mostly because it was a highly polished game (ignoring bugs) where even the tiny things were brimming with detail (although I still maintain that overall, I feel the design of DA2 is superior).

But given the way DA2 was trashed and how everyone who likes it was pretty much ripped apart, well, it's hardly surprising that I've been way more defensive of DA2 than I ever was of Origins.

#502
Persephone

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Zjarcal wrote...

Persephone wrote...
And I feel the same way about DAII. Only I'm a tad more protective because it got stabbed more than Caesar did when the Ides Of March rolled around. 


Hehe, same here. I still love and will always love Origins to pieces. In certain aspects (music, atmosphere, environments, and the climax of the story) I love it more than DA2, mostly because it was a highly polished game (ignoring bugs) where even the tiny things were brimming with detail (although I still maintain that overall, I feel the design of DA2 is superior).

But given the way DA2 was trashed and how everyone who likes it was pretty much ripped apart, well, it's hardly surprising that I've been way more defensive of DA2 than I ever was of Origins.


Well said, as always!<3

#503
Sabriana

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I know Raen. I didn't mean to overreact. It's an automatic reaction. And I do hope that DA 2 will get second looks. I truly don't want it to utterly fail, because so many people I have come to really like worked hard on it no matter the outcome.

Lol @ Persephone. Poor Julius. What a funny simile (I hope that's the right English word)

#504
Gotholhorakh

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Sabriana wrote...

I know Raen. I didn't mean to overreact. It's an automatic reaction. And I do hope that DA 2 will get second looks. I truly don't want it to utterly fail, because so many people I have come to really like worked hard on it no matter the outcome.

Lol @ Persephone. Poor Julius. What a funny simile (I hope that's the right English word)


On one level I don't want it to fail because I don't want the real life consequences to happen for the people at BioWare.

On the other hand, the practical upshot of it doing well would be more games like it, and for lots of people that would be a shame, because (as has been made abundantly clear) lots of people like the kind of tactical combat, party control and character customisation that you get in games like DA:O.

I hope any rational person will understand: lots of people honestly thought they would get those things as gameplay elements in a Dragon Age sequel.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 08 mai 2011 - 12:52 .


#505
Sabriana

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Gotholhorakh wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I know Raen. I didn't mean to overreact. It's an automatic reaction. And I do hope that DA 2 will get second looks. I truly don't want it to utterly fail, because so many people I have come to really like worked hard on it no matter the outcome.

Lol @ Persephone. Poor Julius. What a funny simile (I hope that's the right English word)


On one level I don't want it to fail because I don't want the real life consequences to happen for the people at BioWare.

On the other hand, the practical upshot of it doing well would be more games like it, and for lots of people that would be a shame, because (as has been made abundantly clear) lots of people like the kind of tactical combat, party control and character customisation that you get in games like DA:O, and which I hope any rational person will understand: lots of people honestly thought they would get in a Dragon Age sequel.


That's what I meant with the word "utterly". I don't want them to loose money, or not make enough to justify continuing the series. I do want them to realize that the genre is not dead, nor is the niche declining.

If they decide to take that "other" route, fine. It'll be tough to lose the devs that are the grandmasters (imo) in companion-centric stories, but they must do what they have to. I just have to start looking elsewhere, but it looks bleak in regards to RPGs made the (hopefully not former) "bioware" way. However, they simply need to pick a lane. Straddling the middle leads only to failure - well, usually (imo)

#506
Gotholhorakh

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Sabriana wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I know Raen. I didn't mean to overreact. It's an automatic reaction. And I do hope that DA 2 will get second looks. I truly don't want it to utterly fail, because so many people I have come to really like worked hard on it no matter the outcome.

Lol @ Persephone. Poor Julius. What a funny simile (I hope that's the right English word)


On one level I don't want it to fail because I don't want the real life consequences to happen for the people at BioWare.

On the other hand, the practical upshot of it doing well would be more games like it, and for lots of people that would be a shame, because (as has been made abundantly clear) lots of people like the kind of tactical combat, party control and character customisation that you get in games like DA:O, and which I hope any rational person will understand: lots of people honestly thought they would get in a Dragon Age sequel.


That's what I meant with the word "utterly". I don't want them to loose money, or not make enough to justify continuing the series. I do want them to realize that the genre is not dead, nor is the niche declining.

If they decide to take that "other" route, fine. It'll be tough to lose the devs that are the grandmasters (imo) in companion-centric stories, but they must do what they have to. I just have to start looking elsewhere, but it looks bleak in regards to RPGs made the (hopefully not former) "bioware" way. However, they simply need to pick a lane. Straddling the middle leads only to failure - well, usually (imo)


The thing is, RPG will not easily die. People enjoy making and playing Role-playing games too much.


All this stuff about RPGs disappearing because the suits can't shift enough milions of units isn't realistic. For every RPG lover consumed by mammon, ten will arise to take their place, and ultimately RPG lovers will make the games themselves if they have to, like they have in the past - out of the love of it or even just to have something to play.

Also, yes they can shift them off consoles with their shenannigans, but let's be honest, there's a PC in practically every home that has a console..


Maybe we shouldn't worry so much about it.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 08 mai 2011 - 01:08 .


#507
MDT1

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RPGs aren't dying and are and will be able to sell millions, it's just a poor excuse to target other audiences.
It just sounds friendlier then: "You are not the biggest market and I'm only interested in maximizing short term profit and don't care if the company still exists in 5-10 years."
If thats the road BW wants to take by neglecting things that made them special and allowed their uprising (because according to BWs PR those people who bought there games from the beginning are just "idiots" in most cases) they just make room for a new company to take their place.

It's a typical cycle and nothing new.
1: A company is brought up by a niche
2: Company gets abitious and tries to leave the niche
3a:(Normally) the company ceases to exist after some time.
3b:(Sometimes) they succed.
4: In either way, there is room for a new company in the niche.

Also nothing against ambition but that kind of ambition is often arrogance mixed with lack of reality and self awareness.

Modifié par MDT1, 08 mai 2011 - 01:41 .


#508
Sabriana

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@ Gotholhorakh & MDT

I hope you are right - make that I "know" you are right. It's just me feeling pessimistic. It comes with having followed bioware for over 10 years, and enjoying most of their games. It's true enough, the RPG will not die out and neither will its followers. It's simply too much fun to play, and for a lot of people it's fun to create one.

I always loved RPGs, and I have two up and coming fans in my household. I see people of all ages playing and enjoying them, and their number goes into the millions. That is not a number that will be ignored for long. Sports games and other dime a dozen mainstream-ware might sell more, but they are also usually cheaper, and the competition is fierce. They are also fast forgotten, most of the time. RPGs can demand a higher sale-price and its staying power is remarkable. A good one will sell for long, long time, and further name/brand recognition for other products of that company.

So, I'll just take a deep breath, and see what the backlash will bring. I still hope (selfishly) that the grandmaster of the story/companion-centric RPG will go back to its strengths. If not, I wish them luck. Sincerely.

I also remember that the PC has been talked "dead" for many years, but it has stubbornly refused to die. It simply won't die because the PC is far too widespread in households across the globe, imo. Yes, many PCs are not capable of playing the latest and greatest games, but I've also not heard about a great slump in the newest and shiniest PC sales.

Oh well. Here's to hope, whichever way it turns out.

#509
MDT1

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@ Sabriana

That PC's will die is also a lie to get people into buying overpriced consoles. As long as people want customizable working stations that can work independend there will be PCs (or something simmilar).
It's just that publishers prefere consoles because of copy protections and it's less effort to creat compability as you have only 2 system builds or so.
They just wish PC gaming would finally die.

#510
daemon1129

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MDT1 wrote...

@ Sabriana

That PC's will die is also a lie to get people into buying overpriced consoles. As long as people want customizable working stations that can work independend there will be PCs (or something simmilar).
It's just that publishers prefere consoles because of copy protections and it's less effort to creat compability as you have only 2 system builds or so.
They just wish PC gaming would finally die.


Exactly.  They want PC gaming to die, and it ain't gonna happen.  Until maybe they can bring Mouse and keyboard and modding to consoles (which they are trying hard with LittelBigPlanet and Infamous 2), PC gaming is stil going strong.  It might not be the most profictable for big pubishers who aims at huge AAA  titles instead of making good games.  There are tons of older PC games with a cult following to this day even if the sales were disappointing. 

#511
Muriya

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RaenImrahl wrote...

I don't mean to imply that DAO won't continue to sell on its merits... simply that new people seem, from my perspective, to have more opportunity to give DAO a second look now.  As I said, I suspect there will opportunities made (like an Ultimate Edition) for potential customers to give DA2 a second look in the future.  Doesn't mean they'll like it any more or less than those of us who pre-ordered it.

I agree. Just like I'm buying Baulder's Gate and Baulder's Gate 2 seeing how great their "spiritual successor" is.
I actually may buy DAO: Ultimate Edition as it is sometimes cheaper than buying all the DLCs individually.(I've seen price for the Ultimate edition as low as 19.99 for the PC Download version.)
I regret buying Awakening too early..should have waited.  To me BG1+BG2 would be money better spent than DA2. But that's just me.. I will not rule out DA3 but would definitely wait for user reviews..

On the other hand, I disagree that DA2 is a complete failure. A complete failure does not sell 1-2 million copies.  It's already doing a whole lot better than many other RPGs.  There is no rational reason for Bioware/EA to reduce the size of DA team (maybe not layoff, but move them to other projects.)   I suspect that budget cuts had direct impacts to the quality of Awakening and DA2.  Further cuts would only ruin the series.

Modifié par Muriya, 08 mai 2011 - 02:50 .


#512
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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PC Gaming and RPGs have been labelled as "outdated" and "dead" for the better part of a decade.

Could've fooled me.

I'll continue to be a fan of the wonderful genre we know as RPGs and continue to play them on the platform we know as PCs.

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#513
AkiKishi

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daemon1129 wrote...
Exactly.  They want PC gaming to die, and it ain't gonna happen.  Until maybe they can bring Mouse and keyboard and modding to consoles (which they are trying hard with LittelBigPlanet and Infamous 2), PC gaming is stil going strong.  It might not be the most profictable for big pubishers who aims at huge AAA  titles instead of making good games.  There are tons of older PC games with a cult following to this day even if the sales were disappointing. 


PC gaming dies a bit each new console generation and then rallys as the consoles get older. Nothing is really advancing at a great pace and consoles buy and use as is , that's a big advantage in the mass market.

Mouse and keyboard has been around on consoles for years. It's just not worth it when the keyboard has no other real function.

Muriya wrote...
On the other hand, I disagree that DA2 is a complete failure. A complete failure does not sell 1-2 million copies.  It's already doing a whole lot better than many other RPGs.  There is no rational reason for Bioware/EA to reduce the size of DA team (maybe not layoff, but move them to other projects.)   I suspect that budget cuts had direct impacts to the quality of Awakening and DA2.  Further cuts would only ruin the series.

Muriya wrote...
On the other hand, I disagree that DA2 is a complete failure. A complete failure does not sell 1-2 million copies.  It's already doing a whole lot better than many other RPGs.  There is no rational reason for Bioware/EA to reduce the size of DA team (maybe not layoff, but move them to other projects.)   I suspect that budget cuts had direct impacts to the quality of Awakening and DA2.  Further cuts would only ruin the series.


Failure is relative. For a game that was supposedly designed the way it was for the mass market , it's a failure.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 08 mai 2011 - 03:04 .


#514
Night Prowler76

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MDT1 wrote...

@ Sabriana

That PC's will die is also a lie to get people into buying overpriced consoles. As long as people want customizable working stations that can work independend there will be PCs (or something simmilar).
It's just that publishers prefere consoles because of copy protections and it's less effort to creat compability as you have only 2 system builds or so.
They just wish PC gaming would finally die.


I agree, the PC will never die for the high end gaming crowd, but the casual gamer doesnt want to be bothered with upgrading their unit every couple of years, and screwing around with compatibility issues etc, ( I decided to put Oblivion on my Windows 7 64 bit quad core) and it took hours to figure out why it kept crashing lol!

Console's arent really overpriced, I mean they usually have a 6-7 year lifespan, not bad for 300-500 bucks, and they dont have compatibily issues:>

#515
MDT1

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Night Prowler76 wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

@ Sabriana

That PC's will die is also a lie to get people into buying overpriced consoles. As long as people want customizable working stations that can work independend there will be PCs (or something simmilar).
It's just that publishers prefere consoles because of copy protections and it's less effort to creat compability as you have only 2 system builds or so.
They just wish PC gaming would finally die.


I agree, the PC will never die for the high end gaming crowd, but the casual gamer doesnt want to be bothered with upgrading their unit every couple of years, and screwing around with compatibility issues etc, ( I decided to put Oblivion on my Windows 7 64 bit quad core) and it took hours to figure out why it kept crashing lol!

Console's arent really overpriced, I mean they usually have a 6-7 year lifespan, not bad for 300-500 bucks, and they dont have compatibily issues:>


What caused your Oblivion to crash? (Have also a Windows 7 64 bit quad core) ^^

Perhaps consoles seem overpriced to me because a PC is mandatory for me and all games I was interested so far were released on PC as well (except MK9). So it feels like spending 300 bucks for games I already could play on PC.

#516
napushenko

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so.. the whiners got what they wanted.. how sad, looks like da3 will be "save the world from blight-big evil-bad sorcerer" kind of game, exactly like 123412312 other rpg-s as obviously fans cant comprehend anything other than that as rpg.

#517
xkg

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napushenko wrote...

so.. the whiners got what they wanted.. how sad, looks like da3 will be "save the world from blight-big evil-bad sorcerer" kind of game, exactly like 123412312 other rpg-s as obviously fans cant comprehend anything other than that as rpg.


[trollface] Problem ?

#518
neppakyo

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Hrm, from what I gather most of the "whiners" had no problem with the concept of the DA2 story. Just the ****** poor execution of it. Then there was the myriad of other problems and bugs, lack of QA, questionable art direction.. etc etc.

#519
TJSolo

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napushenko wrote...

so.. the whiners got what they wanted.. how sad, looks like da3 will be "save the world from blight-big evil-bad sorcerer" kind of game, exactly like 123412312 other rpg-s as obviously fans cant comprehend anything other than that as rpg.


I don't know about the whole "save the world from blight-big evil-bad sorcerer" but anyone that beat DA2 is probably aware that the story is going to be more epic than the Hawke's life in Kirkwall. DA2 was setup to be a tremendous success but instead working with the foundation EA Bioware tried to reinvent the wheel in 18 months.

#520
abaris

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neppakyo wrote...

Hrm, from what I gather most of the "whiners" had no problem with the concept of the DA2 story. Just the ****** poor execution of it. Then there was the myriad of other problems and bugs, lack of QA, questionable art direction.. etc etc.


This.

And Tom & Jerry like combat of course.

The story concept in itself could have been great.

#521
Gotholhorakh

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Sabriana wrote...
 It's just me feeling pessimistic. It comes with having followed bioware for over 10 years, and enjoying most of their games.

Sabriana wrote...
Oh well. Here's to hope, whichever way it turns out.


Hear, hear - these two parts of your post summarise exactly how I've been feeling about it.

#522
Sanguinerin

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neppakyo wrote...

Hrm, from what I gather most of the "whiners" had no problem with the concept of the DA2 story. Just the ****** poor execution of it. Then there was the myriad of other problems and bugs, lack of QA, questionable art direction.. etc etc.


This is my problem. I feel like the concepts in DAII were actually quite good.

I would have loved to have a strong attachment to my family, in that they could sometimes sway my decisions. I like the growing tension between the mages and the templars. I liked the idea behind the presence of the Qunari, and the extra bits of lore surrounding their culture.

However, those aspects weren't fleshed out enough (to me). Combine that with things such as enemies jumping out of the sky, the mage "teleports" (Gaider mentioned that there was supposed to be an animation showing them moving across the field in a manner such as shapeshifters able to turn into their final form in DAO, only the animation never made it into the final game and thus the mages appear to merely jump across the areas), a desperately lacking number of decent choices/consequences, the inevitability of it all as Hawke's tragedy continues with seemingly (or apparently) no way to stop anything, the decision not to recognize mage characters efficiently in a mage-centric plot, and other issues.

... And, well, all that combined makes for a game I played once, in comparison to DAO, which I've played more times than I can count and each time discovered something that I hadn't paid as much attention to or missed entirely. Someone could tell me that there's something I overlooked in DAII as well, and I believe that statement actually. The issue, however, is that while I had the desire to keep playing DAO, the same desire does not exist for this game. I think DAII's case and disc have actually made it off of my desk and into a junk box underneath my bed.

#523
Altima Darkspells

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napushenko wrote...

so.. the whiners got what they wanted.. how sad, looks like da3 will be "save the world from blight-big evil-bad sorcerer" kind of game, exactly like 123412312 other rpg-s as obviously fans cant comprehend anything other than that as rpg.


And the 'whiners' from Origins got exactly what they wanted: Dragon Age 2.

How'd that work out?

#524
Gotholhorakh

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HallowedWarden wrote...
The issue, however, is that while I had the desire to keep playing DAO, the same desire does not exist for this game. I think DAII's case and disc have actually made it off of my desk and into a junk box underneath my bed.


This is what it boils right down to for me. It isn't fun.

The difference between this and a disappointing DLC or expansion pack for me, though, is that most of the obvious butchery of the core tactical party-based romp has been done quite deliberately, and nobody seemed to care whether that worked out OK in the context of a sequel because they knew better lalalala.

I think if
a) they'd tried to deliver a great party-based RPG like DA:O but it was rubbish or
B) they'd butchered the party-based RPG completely but it was just a fun game in its own right (think Fable or Fallout 3)

I wouldn't have been so disappointed, it was the combination of bad game AND intentional butchery of everything the DA:O fans (I know) had come back for - together they rankled.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 08 mai 2011 - 09:56 .


#525
neppakyo

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@hallowedwarden.

I totally agree with that, it felt like hawkes family was a last minute decision. I couldn't connect with them at all, as I never got to know them. When <insert sibling> got crushed by the ogre all I did was go "meh" And the mother bit.. where did that come from?

Also, all those other points you made as well.

@Altima
I never complained about Origins at all. DA2 is my first game I've complained about on an online forum. Take it as you will, hehe.

EDIT: @ Goth.

You make a valid argument there.

Modifié par neppakyo, 08 mai 2011 - 10:02 .