1033 réponses à ce sujet

[KennethAFTopp]

David Gaider wrote...

Not to suggest anything beyond this, but if one is going to compare the sales of the two games one might also wish to take into account the fact that Origins was released shortly before Christmas. Beyond that, whatever extrapolations you wish to make are up to you.

I've heard that's an urban myth
Besides Red Dead Redemption did not have any problem selling and neither will L.A. Noire.
or GTAIV

Modifié par KennethAFTopp, 11 mai 2011 - 10:25 .

[Yrkoon]

blu_skye wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

I really should reiterate that these sale figures show bupkis about bupkis. EA has the real figures. They could be great or terrible: we simply don't know either way.

EA has reported that DA2 sold approximately 2 million copies. 

They've reported no such thing.

You've Mis-read the precise wording of the  specifically timed press release,  like  so. many. people.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 11 mai 2011 - 10:31 .

[blu_skye]

Yrkoon wrote...

blu_skye wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

I really should reiterate that these sale figures show bupkis about bupkis. EA has the real figures. They could be great or terrible: we simply don't know either way.

EA has reported that DA2 sold approximately 2 million copies. 

They've reported no such thing.

You've Mis-read the precise wording of the  specifically timed press release,  like  so. many. people.

I've misread nothing.  Snipped directly from the financial results. 

-----
EA shipped seven titles in the fourth quarter that have already sold in over 1 million units each, life to date. Crysis® 2, Dragon Age™ 2, and Dead Space™ 2 each sold in more than two million units.
-----

I would suggest that you do research the facts.   As of the end of the quarter, EA sold approximately 2 milltion copies.  Period.

[AkiKishi]

blu_skye wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

blu_skye wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

I really should reiterate that these sale figures show bupkis about bupkis. EA has the real figures. They could be great or terrible: we simply don't know either way.

EA has reported that DA2 sold approximately 2 million copies. 

They've reported no such thing.

You've Mis-read the precise wording of the  specifically timed press release,  like  so. many. people.

I've misread nothing.  Snipped directly from the financial results. 

-----
EA shipped seven titles in the fourth quarter that have already sold in over 1 million units each, life to date. Crysis® 2, Dragon Age™ 2, and Dead Space™ 2 each sold in more than two million units.
-----

I would suggest that you do research the facts.   As of the end of the quarter, EA sold approximately 2 milltion copies.  Period.

Sold in does not mean the same as sold. Sold in means the same as shipped. Sold through is term for sold in the context of the press release. Confusing I know, but it's done for the exact reason that you got taken in by it.

Translation of the press release when compared to the retail figures is something like this.
EA sent out 2 million but they are still on shelves. This will obviously impact reordering of the tltle etc.

[blu_skye]

BobSmith101 wrote...

blu_skye wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

blu_skye wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

I really should reiterate that these sale figures show bupkis about bupkis. EA has the real figures. They could be great or terrible: we simply don't know either way.

EA has reported that DA2 sold approximately 2 million copies. 

They've reported no such thing.

You've Mis-read the precise wording of the  specifically timed press release,  like  so. many. people.

I've misread nothing.  Snipped directly from the financial results. 

-----
EA shipped seven titles in the fourth quarter that have already sold in over 1 million units each, life to date. Crysis® 2, Dragon Age™ 2, and Dead Space™ 2 each sold in more than two million units.
-----

I would suggest that you do research the facts.   As of the end of the quarter, EA sold approximately 2 milltion copies.  Period.

Sold in does not mean the same as sold. Sold in means the same as shipped. Sold through is term for sold in the context of the press release. Confusing I know, but it's done for the exact reason that you got taken in by it.

Translation of the press release when compared to the retail figures is something like this.
EA sent out 2 million but they are still on shelves. This will obviously impact reordering of the tltle etc.

In anycase, EAWare sold as in sold out the door, got your money sold, off the shelf and not coming back sold, no more than 2 million copies.  Considering that EA wanted Call of Duty sales, DA2 is a flop.  Since the vast majority of sales happen within the 1st 90 days of release, this pig isn't flying.  Apparently nobody pushed the button because awsome isn't happening.  No way this turkey will hit DA:O sales figures no matter how you add them up.

[Yrkoon]

<sigh> I think we've had, like 5 different 20 page threads about this. It really is a testiment on how obnoxiously shrewd EA can be -- and how tragically gullable their target readers are.

[Yrkoon]

blu_skye wrote...


In anycase, EAWare sold as in sold out the door, got your money sold, off the shelf and not coming back sold, no more than 2 million copies. 

Except that   the bolded part here is erroneous, and this fact makes all the difference in the world.  These  sold in/shipped units  are not permanent money in the bank for EA.   The outlets/companies  in question can INDEED send unsold units right back to EA for a refund or credit, and likely will, if customers don't buy them.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 11 mai 2011 - 11:12 .

[blu_skye]

Yrkoon wrote...

blu_skye wrote...


In anycase, EAWare sold as in sold out the door, got your money sold, off the shelf and not coming back sold, no more than 2 million copies. 

Except that   the bolded part here is erroneous, and this fact makes all the difference in the world.  These  sold in/shipped units  are not permanent money in the bank for EA.   The outlets/companies  in question can INDEED send unsold units right back to EA for a refund or credit, and likely will, if customers don't buy them.

You misinterpreted my statement.

You are 100% correct that units shipped to the store, which can send unsold units back to EA. Therefore if EA "sold in/shipped' approximately 2 million units, then no more than 2 million units could have been actually sold for real money.    My statement is correct.  No more than 2 million units have been sold. Period.  There is little doubt this title has not sold, as in real money sold, up to expectations.  Why?  Because someone apparently forgot to include the awsome button.

Modifié par blu_skye, 11 mai 2011 - 11:23 .

[Yrkoon]

  Sure.    But  where's that leave us? Oh yeah, back at square one: We 're looking right at EA's statements, and we still don't know how many copies of DA2 have actually been sold. All we know is that Walmart, Best Buy, Gamestop, Amazon etc. collectively have a million+ copies of the game in stock.

  And to that I say:  Whoop-tee-f*ck. Since when do we measure successful sales by how many copies of a game sit in a warehouse collecting dust?

Edit:  but yes, It is, at least, a good start to know that no matter what, DA2 has NOT sold  more than 2 million.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 11 mai 2011 - 11:48 .

[veramis]

blu_skye, are you studying to be a politician? You'd make a good one.

[xkg]

I dont want anyone to argue because of some funny math function i have posted here just for the kicks.

I've deleted my post. Function is gone now, no problem.

[nopho]

Yrkoon wrote...

blu_skye wrote...


In anycase, EAWare sold as in sold out the door, got your money sold, off the shelf and not coming back sold, no more than 2 million copies. 

Except that   the bolded part here is erroneous, and this fact makes all the difference in the world.  These  sold in/shipped units  are not permanent money in the bank for EA.   The outlets/companies  in question can INDEED send unsold units right back to EA for a refund or credit, and likely will, if customers don't buy them.

are you 100% sure about that? i thought about that possibility but was not sure if that is an option for the shops.

[blu_skye]

nopho wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

blu_skye wrote...


In anycase, EAWare sold as in sold out the door, got your money sold, off the shelf and not coming back sold, no more than 2 million copies. 

Except that   the bolded part here is erroneous, and this fact makes all the difference in the world.  These  sold in/shipped units  are not permanent money in the bank for EA.   The outlets/companies  in question can INDEED send unsold units right back to EA for a refund or credit, and likely will, if customers don't buy them.

are you 100% sure about that? i thought about that possibility but was not sure if that is an option for the shops.

100% certain unsold software can be returned to the publisher in most cases.  In DA2 case, that would be EA. 

[nopho]

i'd ask for hard prove, like a law or such, it is always not thaaat good to argue with "i know from that guy who is, like, 100% certain"
i worded my post a bit hasty there, sitting at uni here.

[billy the squid]

nopho wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

blu_skye wrote...


In anycase, EAWare sold as in sold out the door, got your money sold, off the shelf and not coming back sold, no more than 2 million copies. 

Except that   the bolded part here is erroneous, and this fact makes all the difference in the world.  These  sold in/shipped units  are not permanent money in the bank for EA.   The outlets/companies  in question can INDEED send unsold units right back to EA for a refund or credit, and likely will, if customers don't buy them.

are you 100% sure about that? i thought about that possibility but was not sure if that is an option for the shops.

It depends on the contractual arrangement that the retailer has with EA. Larger retailers will obviously have more pull when it comes to commercial contracts. For instance, if EA wants to sell more stock to retailers after the initial rush of sales and the retailer's projections of units show that demand is likely to decrease rapidly/ they will require less than expected then they won't bother ordering more from EA.

Hence it's up to EA to attract retailers, by lowering the whole sale price/ implementing credit arrangement on other EA stock/ buy back arrangements, simply so they can shift their stock so boosting revenue in the financial report which affects stock prices/ investor sentiments and the ability of the company to service the leverage that it uses to finance short term overheads and expenses. Hence the use of "sold in"  used in reports to boost market expectations if one doesn't read into the meaning to hard.

Any stock which is returned/credit wil not be included until the next quater's financial report at the earliest. As financial reports from most companies that I have seen rarely give a specific breakdown of profits and expenses to investors we are left with only a general picture of how profits and expenses fluctuate 

[Grovermancer]

For the record, EA's stock has JUMPED over the last few weeks, up to over $22/share, which is as high as it's been in over a year or so.

I know, cause I sold all mine recently.      (Why keep stock that doesn't pay dividends?  The money just sits there)


So I guess using the 'right wording' must have, at least in part, helped.  Whatever 'helped' means.

[billy the squid]

The main point is they can't technically say sold, as they haven't sold it to consumers, but rather retailers, yet the revenue generated is still included in the fiscal report and does boost sentiments that things are improving. However, jobs data and growth projections of the economy in general aswell as comparative analysis of data from the same sector and potential competitors all play a part in the movement of stocks. (there are dozens more reasons, but I'm just generalising at the moment.)

Nice that you made a profit, but shares that don't pay dividends can be classed more as capital growth. the money is rolled back into the company to fund further expansion, research, partly fund growth strategies etc. It potentially means that the company's potential profits in further years will be greater than current projection due to the influx of funds, of course it is not a hard and fast rule. It can also mean that the company has experienced financial losses and is attempting to recoup by limiting profit outflows to present a better picture of financial stability to investor markets and decrease the amounts require to service debts, by illustrating that it is more financially stable.

Modifié par billy the squid, 11 mai 2011 - 01:31 .

[nopho]

billy the squid wrote...
It depends on the contractual arrangement that the retailer has with EA. Larger retailers will obviously have more pull when it comes to commercial contracts. For instance, if EA wants to sell more stock to retailers after the initial rush of sales and the retailer's projections of units show that demand is likely to decrease rapidly/ they will require less than expected then they won't bother ordering more from EA.

Hence it's up to EA to attract retailers, by lowering the whole sale price/ implementing credit arrangement on other EA stock/ buy back arrangements, simply so they can shift their stock so boosting revenue in the financial report which affects stock prices/ investor sentiments and the ability of the company to service the leverage that it uses to finance short term overheads and expenses. Hence the use of "sold in"  used in reports to boost market expectations if one doesn't read into the meaning to hard.

Any stock which is returned/credit wil not be included until the next quater's financial report at the earliest. As financial reports from most companies that I have seen rarely give a specific breakdown of profits and expenses to investors we are left with only a general picture of how profits and expenses fluctuate 

thats what i thought so far. so there is no law about it but rather "logical guessing" as i guess bigger retailers won't tell us.

edit: what i thought about, how is it with steam? i got no idea how it works with them, do they buy identification keys from EA? are they part of the "sold in" figures? i always thought no, bu i do not know for sure.

Modifié par nopho, 11 mai 2011 - 02:51 .

[csfteeeer]

nopho wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
It depends on the contractual arrangement that the retailer has with EA. Larger retailers will obviously have more pull when it comes to commercial contracts. For instance, if EA wants to sell more stock to retailers after the initial rush of sales and the retailer's projections of units show that demand is likely to decrease rapidly/ they will require less than expected then they won't bother ordering more from EA.

Hence it's up to EA to attract retailers, by lowering the whole sale price/ implementing credit arrangement on other EA stock/ buy back arrangements, simply so they can shift their stock so boosting revenue in the financial report which affects stock prices/ investor sentiments and the ability of the company to service the leverage that it uses to finance short term overheads and expenses. Hence the use of "sold in"  used in reports to boost market expectations if one doesn't read into the meaning to hard.

Any stock which is returned/credit wil not be included until the next quater's financial report at the earliest. As financial reports from most companies that I have seen rarely give a specific breakdown of profits and expenses to investors we are left with only a general picture of how profits and expenses fluctuate 

thats what i thought so far. so there is no law about it but rather "logical guessing" as i guess bigger retailers won't tell us.

edit: what i thought about, how is it with steam? i got no idea how it works with them, do they buy identification keys from EA? are they part of the "sold in" figures? i always thought no, bu i do not know for sure.

i think i read about that somewhere else, don't remeber where though, anyway, apperantly the pc version on Steam sold 105.000, even getting beaten by HOMEFRONT, still not even close to Origins,  i also read that apparently Valve (the owners of Steam) will keep the sales data in Secret, however i still how Origins did in Digital sales so far, i haven't checked in a while, and the charts don't show the sales in America for the Pc version, so... yeah, still FAR from Origins.
and no, you can Only Download  the games through Steam 

[nopho]

i know the figures too but that wasn't my question. my question is, if the steam-sales (and other digital distributions) are something wich is part of the "sold in" part.
i have zero idea of the mechanics of digital distributer and the publishers. i wondered if the high prices on steam might be because they got no "stock" of games and thus did not have to sell what they bought too much when DA2 wasn't selling as expected.

[billy the squid]

nopho wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
It depends on the contractual arrangement that the retailer has with EA. Larger retailers will obviously have more pull when it comes to commercial contracts. For instance, if EA wants to sell more stock to retailers after the initial rush of sales and the retailer's projections of units show that demand is likely to decrease rapidly/ they will require less than expected then they won't bother ordering more from EA.

Hence it's up to EA to attract retailers, by lowering the whole sale price/ implementing credit arrangement on other EA stock/ buy back arrangements, simply so they can shift their stock so boosting revenue in the financial report which affects stock prices/ investor sentiments and the ability of the company to service the leverage that it uses to finance short term overheads and expenses. Hence the use of "sold in"  used in reports to boost market expectations if one doesn't read into the meaning to hard.

Any stock which is returned/credit wil not be included until the next quater's financial report at the earliest. As financial reports from most companies that I have seen rarely give a specific breakdown of profits and expenses to investors we are left with only a general picture of how profits and expenses fluctuate 

thats what i thought so far. so there is no law about it but rather "logical guessing" as i guess bigger retailers won't tell us.

*snip*

Correct there is no law stating that EA would have to buyback unsold stock. It depends on the contractual obligations of either party, but this is governed by contract law. So things like repeated buybacks under other commercial contracts with EA and a particular retailer whilst in the course of business can imply that there is an understanding between the parties that EA will buy back unsold stock, even if it is not explicitly expressed in the contract clauses.

This is dependant on case law, so there is no hard and fast rule, it generally revolves around the circumstances of the case and if either party can show that there has been a track record of buybacks even without explicit clauses. It may require litigation fees which can be very high and tend to attract a lot of bad PR which affects stock prices, so at least some commercial disputes would be settled out of court, by use of credit arrangements or whole sale price reductions or other incentives.
 
(I'm using English law, I expect the American system would be different and depend on what jurisdiction has been agreed by either party to settle disputes.)

[SirShreK]

billy the squid wrote...
snip

Also read 'trade credit'. The central idea behind the concept of trade finances. 

[Rebecca Black likes DA2]

xkg wrote...


I dont want anyone to argue because of some funny math function i have posted here just for the kicks.

I've deleted my post. Function is gone now, no problem.

xkg you shoud repost the chart.  Seriously.

I'm going to go ahead and make a prediction myself without a mathematical formula.  The next weeks worth of numbers that come out for DA2 will show that sales have sunk even lower.  Shocking, I know. (oh noes watch out for the wrath of Boiny Bunny!)

[IanPolaris]

Rebecca Black likes DA2 wrote...

xkg wrote...


I dont want anyone to argue because of some funny math function i have posted here just for the kicks.

I've deleted my post. Function is gone now, no problem.

xkg you shoud repost the chart.  Seriously.

I'm going to go ahead and make a prediction myself without a mathematical formula.  The next weeks worth of numbers that come out for DA2 will show that sales have sunk even lower.  Shocking, I know. (oh noes watch out for the wrath of Boiny Bunny!)

xkg,

Indeed.  There was nothing wrong with what you posted.  It was a simple 'best fit curve' projection based on data.  Nothing more.  Some people here really, really don't like what the data is saying and are overly sensitive to it I think.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 11 mai 2011 - 08:58 .

[Statulos]

neppakyo wrote...

Statulos wrote...

I have red a lot of comments (even from Mr. Gaider) pointing out at the release date. Fine, so why not waiting some months and release it in November? Yes, I understand that timing for DA:O was great because there was no massive competition like this year but if you´re sure about your game and its capabilities, you should release it. In fact, you can build a reputation by all the comparisons they are going to draw (extra marketing!).

Plus, if in that environment you actually get more awards, the taste of victory is far better.

To the bolded. If you mean RPG competition, then no. But in general game competetion. Craploads of games
Here's what came out same time as origins.

Assassins Creed 2
Call Of Duty: MW2
Left4Dead 2
God of War Collection
Dirt2
Super Mario Bros Wii (i know its wii, but SM games sell like crack in harlem)
The Sims Adventure.

So plenty of competition for a gamers money in that month. 

If we accept that DA:O had the RPG crowd as target audience, and in my experience we are very passionate about the genre, those titles do not mean a massive competition with DA:O.

Yes, I play other stuff besides RPG´s, but considering that it´s strategy (oldschool/grognard-esque some would say)
just like so many other gamers, but RPG goes first on my list.