1033 réponses à ce sujet

[DSGrant]

Is it possible for the OP to update the first page graph to reflect week 9 sales (and week 10 when it's available, and so on)? I think the ease of reference there would be nice so the lazier forum-goers don't have to sift through pages of discussion to find it.

I'm also curious what the ramifications are here for Bioware. It's been reported that they sold 2 million units to retailiers ("sold in"), but obviously not nearly that many have been sold to the consumers. Does Bioware count this as a financial success since they already have their money and have no doubt covered the costs of development? Or do they include metrics that look at consumer sales trends (such as what we're discussing here in this thread) as well? The reason I ask, of course, is that if they qualify DA2 as a financial success, they likely will have less motivation to consider our feedback as they develop DA3.

[IanPolaris]

DSGrant wrote...

Is it possible for the OP to update the first page graph to reflect week 9 sales (and week 10 when it's available, and so on)? I think the ease of reference there would be nice so the lazier forum-goers don't have to sift through pages of discussion to find it.

I'm also curious what the ramifications are here for Bioware. It's been reported that they sold 2 million units to retailiers ("sold in"), but obviously not nearly that many have been sold to the consumers. Does Bioware count this as a financial success since they already have their money and have no doubt covered the costs of development? Or do they include metrics that look at consumer sales trends (such as what we're discussing here in this thread) as well? The reason I ask, of course, is that if they qualify DA2 as a financial success, they likely will have less motivation to consider our feedback as they develop DA3.

That depends.  I know it's the cheap answer, but the honest one.  Most retailers buy their games from the publisher (EA in this case) according to a short term loan contract which usually includes the right to sell unsold copies of the unit for reembursement.  Of course that cost would come out of the budget for NEXT fiscal year and not this one.

If most of the retailers have such contracts, then Bioware and EA almost have to be looking at these sales numbers with deepinging concern because it might mean a significant number of product didn't get sold which becomes a dead-weight loss on next years budget and the shareholders won't like that one little bit.

In addition to that, it depends on exactly what the expectations were and unless you are on the EA board, there's no way to really know that either.  We can guess based on the pre-publication hype and comparisons with DAO (and how ME2 did compared with ME) that Bioware/EA was likely shooting for 5 million sales or so.  I know they wanted to claim they were going for the CoD crowd but I seriously doubt anyone was so optimistic as to predict the 8-10million sales that this would imply.  If that is correct, then I think it's fair to say that DA2 has severely underperformed expectations and if there is going to be a significant "buy back" loss in FY 2012 (see first paragraph) that makes it even worse.

In my own somewhat educated opinion, I'd say things are looking bleak enough that there may not be a DA3.

-Polaris

[kingjezza]

Fortunately for Bioware they got decent sales at first thanks to Origins, sadly for them this will have all but disappeared by the time DA3 comes out (if it does), the real damage of this game wont be felt to the next one is released, a lot of people simply wont be willing to purchase the game in good faith any longer like they did with DA2.

I certainly wont be investing any more money into the DA series which is sad as Origins is a fantastic game in my eyes but oh well in the end it's a game, so not all that important in the grand scheme of things.

[devSin]

IanPolaris wrote...

If most of the retailers have such contracts, then Bioware and EA almost have to be looking at these sales numbers with deepinging concern because it might mean a significant number of product didn't get sold which becomes a dead-weight loss on next years budget and the shareholders won't like that one little bit.

Not to mention that I think Sony and Microsoft royalties are distribution, not sales. So they already paid out royalties for all the console boxes, even the ones that never sell.

I also don't know how they figure development cost (for instance, they probably don't have to license their own engine internally, but do they figure its estimated value into the cost since the game engine didn't spring from thin air?) to know if it's even considered profitable yet.

[Jerrybnsn]

IanPolaris wrote...


In my own somewhat educated opinion, I'd say things are looking bleak enough that there may not be a DA3.

-Polaris

Infamous sold just around 1.5 million and it did a sequel.

[Everwarden]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Infamous sold just around 1.5 million and it did a sequel.

True, and there likely will be a Dragon Age 3, but you're not taking in every factor. Dragon Age 2 rode the wave of DAO's success, so they won't be able to bank on another easy cash-in if they push out a turd. 

[erynnar]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

http://www.bit-tech....ublic-preview/1

Bioware is sure in a lot of trouble if this is true.

Did anyone else get the feeling that apart from references to MMO's they could have been describing DA2?

OMG yes! I kept changing out words like galaxie with Kirwall.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

erynnar wrote...

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

http://www.bit-tech....ublic-preview/1

Bioware is sure in a lot of trouble if this is true.

Did anyone else get the feeling that apart from references to MMO's they could have been describing DA2?

OMG yes! I kept changing out words like galaxie with Kirwall.

What’s most disappointing of all is how empty and lacking in personality the worlds of Kirkwall felt. It didn’t matter whether we were dealing with ganglords in Darktown or seizing weapon upgrades in Hightown; we never saw any of the pizzazz or colour which we’d expect of the Dragon Age franchise. There was none of the hustle or bustle you’d expect of a thriving interstellar universe, merely same-faced folk standing in an under-populated shell of a world.

Egads!

I really hope TOR does well though. It's probably the biggest reason why EA acquired Bioware. If it tanks.... ugh. Don't want to think about it.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 14 mai 2011 - 12:34 .

[erynnar]

http://www.thehindu....dce2635ad5759,0

This from India no less...

[_Aine_]

erynnar wrote...

http://www.thehindu....dce2635ad5759,0

This from India no less...

How bloody true is that?!?! 

But it is!  From console 1 to 2 - huge improvement.  From Pc to Console ...errr... to new PC... it FEELS like a console port.  

I still won't say it is wholely not-great, but it DOES feel consolely.  And I say that as a girl who plays a ton of console games, but prefers her RPG on her PC.  =D

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

erynnar wrote...

http://www.thehindu....dce2635ad5759,0

This from India no less...

Wow, that was a bit random. But it's okay, because you're cute + the review you linked is actually pretty accurate.

[erynnar]

Oops! Sorry meant to post it in another thread. I am tired.

[_Aine_]

erynnar wrote...

Oops! Sorry meant to post it in another thread. I am tired.

hehe  =)  

*hears kittens purring lullabies in the alley*

[neppakyo]

shantisands wrote...

erynnar wrote...

http://www.thehindu....dce2635ad5759,0

This from India no less...

How bloody true is that?!?! 

But it is!  From console 1 to 2 - huge improvement.  From Pc to Console ...errr... to new PC... it FEELS like a console port.  

I still won't say it is wholely not-great, but it DOES feel consolely.  And I say that as a girl who plays a ton of console games, but prefers her RPG on her PC.  =D

*to the bolded*

I think I'm in love.. 

Kidding aside, yeah that indian article is quite interesting, erynnar. Gamers in india aren't too fond of DA2 it seems.

[Brenus]

Looks like this bull**** game got just what it deserved lol.

Unfortunately, there arent enough braindead sheep out there to fall for EA's pathetic marketing trickery on such a terribly poor quality game.

But I doubt that either EA or Bioware will learn anything from this, they will probably think that the game isnt doing well because it isnt simplified / dumbed down enough.

DA3 - Press the A button just one time, and win the game in 1 second! After all, that else can possibly happen from pressing a single button that can be anymore awesome than winning the entire game?

And dont forget to increase the price up to $90 for it as well, because clearly such an awesome game would require an equally awesome price ......

*Waiting impatiently for Witcher 2 to dispatch. Hurry up real RPG, I need you.

[hemeh01]

Brenus wrote...

 ......

*Waiting impatiently for Witcher 2 to dispatch. Hurry up real RPG, I need you.

Same.

[DSGrant]

IanPolaris wrote...

......I think it's fair to say that DA2 has severely underperformed expectations and if there is going to be a significant "buy back" loss in FY 2012 (see first paragraph) that makes it even worse.

In my own somewhat educated opinion, I'd say things are looking bleak enough that there may not be a DA3.

-Polaris

I wonder if Mr. Laidlaw still believes his "new direction" for DA2's design decisions was the right way to go? Nothing against him personally, but it seems there might be a bit of a disconnect there between his vision of the game and its performance in the marketplace.

[IanPolaris]

DSGrant wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

......I think it's fair to say that DA2 has severely underperformed expectations and if there is going to be a significant "buy back" loss in FY 2012 (see first paragraph) that makes it even worse.

In my own somewhat educated opinion, I'd say things are looking bleak enough that there may not be a DA3.

-Polaris

I wonder if Mr. Laidlaw still believes his "new direction" for DA2's design decisions was the right way to go? Nothing against him personally, but it seems there might be a bit of a disconnect there between his vision of the game and its performance in the marketplace.

My impression of Mike Laidlaw based on his various interviews and posts (here and elsewhere) is that he would believe that his 'new direction' for DA2 was the greatest thing in the history of gaming, and he'd continue to believe that even if JC himself came down on a light from heaven, walked across the water, and told him that it wasn't.

However, what Mr Laidlaw's superiors at Bioware and more importantly the marketing people at EA think may be something quite different.  It's one more reason I am somewhat pessimistic about a DA3.  Given the realities and personalities, it might be easier to simply pull the plug and fire the team from the LD down.

-Polaris

[CaptainBlackGold]

IanPolaris wrote...

SNIP

However, what Mr Laidlaw's superiors at Bioware and more importantly the marketing people at EA think may be something quite different.  It's one more reason I am somewhat pessimistic about a DA3.  Given the realities and personalities, it might be easier to simply pull the plug and fire the team from the LD down.

-Polaris

I fear Polaris may be correct - which indeed would be sad. The DA team is extraordinarily talented and the franchise has so much potential but times being what they are, underperforming IP's may face the corporate axe - especially with all the investment being made in the TOR MMO.

I suspect that the "powers that be" will be paying very close attention to how well the DLC sells before a determination is made about DA's future.

However, I believe that the "suits" knew exactly what they were doing with DA2 - that it was a corporate decision for the "good of the company" for this iteration to take the hit to help their March end of fiscal year bottom line and that the NEXT DA is going to be the incredible game we all know Bioware can make.

And I also believe in flying horses, that good always triumphs over evil and that Josh Whedon will bring back Firefly as a weekly series (And Wash and Books didn't really die).

[neppakyo]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

And I also believe in flying horses, that good always triumphs over evil and that Josh Whedon will bring back Firefly as a weekly series (And Wash and Books didn't really die).

Say.. I have this nice bridge I like to sell you, hardly been used!

(firefly was awesome btw)

[TheTranzor]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

(And Wash and Books didn't really die).

I was on the verge of nerd-rage when Wash was killed... 

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Everwarden wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Infamous sold just around 1.5 million and it did a sequel.

True, and there likely will be a Dragon Age 3, but you're not taking in every factor. Dragon Age 2 rode the wave of DAO's success, so they won't be able to bank on another easy cash-in if they push out a turd. 

This is exactly the angle which interests me. It sure seems by sales numbers that alot of the original sales for DA 2 were based on Bioware's pre-existing reputation. Reputation is a hard thing to build and is even more difficult to rebuild. I like alot of Bioware games but I like to think I've never fallen into the trap of being a mindless zombie of a fan. Approaching each game with skepticism is always a good thing and DA 3 might have to try a little harder to convince me to buy it after DA 2. Will DA 3 have nice initial sales? I suppose it depends upon how DA 2 is continually recieved and if Bioware actually releases a demo before ending their pre-order period.

[Pygmali0n]

Week 9 is out - just looking at Xbox sales, Origins will have sold almost exactly twice as much as DA2 by week 10. And I don't think DA2 should count on many of the bumptious extra 600,000 sales for Origins on Xbox since week 10.

Please also -1 DA2 sale for my mistaken pre-order (Given that, conservatively, half of Origins fans are unhappy with DA2 then minus 1,499,999 other sales as well).

Anyway, farewell for now. Witcher 2 calls me. I won't come back to grind in the almost inevitable truth that it will be a far superior game to DA2. DA devs, please don't ignore the negatives, even those (especially those) that aren't spiced with consoling (and frequently bogus) positives.

Please don't push on with this failed direction (critically and commercially) - you did your best - you bought reviews, and you made-up reviews yourselves, you got marketing to lie, you spun, you cut the price by over half and gave away ME2 with every copy - and you have your little hardcore of happy sheeple...

But remember the slave who stood behind Caesar ('Memento mori') and realise that this isn't even a triumph.

Hope to come back to Dragon Age one day.

Modifié par Pygmali0n, 16 mai 2011 - 08:22 .

[YohkoOhno]

I doubt it is as bleack as Ian says. I do agree the numbers are less than DA1 and between this and the negative feedback there are course corrections Bioware must take. (I don't think even with Laidlaw's statements anybody expected 5-10 million of sales--that sounded like hopeful and wishful thinking, and I doubt EA bet their product selling that much) But consider the following.

The game's sold over 1 million units so far. They'll probably end up selling 2 million in 52 weeks. That will likely offset returns. And this isn't counting digital sales.

The game likely took less money to make.

They spent less on advertising and marketing, which is what they did to introduce a new property.

The Dragon Age property still has value in any event. Bioware didn't make the IP just for RPGs. I'm sure thoughts of everything from FPS to RTS to social games were considered. Even if EA decided to cancel the RPG, I could see them continuing the storylines akin to an Assassin's Creed hero--heck, Bioware doesn't own the property, EA does.

[Phaedros]

I wonder what the DA2 figures would be if you deducted all the pre-orders that wouldn't have been sold if people had realised exactly what they were getting?

Week one sales would be considerably less I'm sure.