1033 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

That's not true! DA:O is *not* unsupported. They are making a patch right now, just look in the DA:O forum.

DA:O is outselling DA 2 on a regular basis here. Why shouldn't it? It's a marvelous game, imo. I've been busy playing my dwarf commoner. Now there's true "awesomeness". I love her to pieces.


Edited for oops.

Sorry, Raen

RaenImrahl wrote.....
There is a 1.05 patch in development for DAO.  http://social.biowar...37421/1#7137421

I should really learn to read back a few pages, and not fly off the handle when/if DA:O gets slighted, even if only in the tiniest amount. Or even if it's only in my imagination.

Modifié par Sabriana, 17 mai 2011 - 04:04 .

[YohkoOhno]

Do you have any statistics to back it up? So far I just see anecdotal reports, from "a local game shop" which is not as reliable as VGChartz, for instance. I highly doubt that there are over 10,000 games being sold each week of DA:O.

As far as steam players--playing is not the same as sales.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 17 mai 2011 - 04:22 .

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Do you have any statistics to back it up?

Boy, you sure do love asking everyone   for "evidence".  Mind If I return the favor for once?

YohkoOhno wrote...

I'd disagree with the marketing. There was more TV advertising, for DA:O than DA2.

Prove it.

Not that it matters.   The claim (which  you didn't actually, and fully address,  was that DA:O had far less advertising/marketing, period.  And Television is hardly the  only type of marketing campaign, so focussing on it  then coming back with some sweeping "disapproval" is... well... absurd.

Tommy6860 wrote...
I remember very littel advertising of DA:O, seriously. I don't ever remember seeing it on TV. I saw it adver'd on many sites, but even then it didn't get the promotion that DA2 got. I mean, the marketing teams and leads were all over gaming sites giving video reviews near three to one what Origins had before it release. Not only that, Origins didn't even have a demo, let alone one that was advertised and marketed where if a certain download count was met, people would get a free in-game item to use, and that's just one marketing campaign.

Origins also didn't have  its own  facebook page prior to its release.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 mai 2011 - 04:37 .

[YohkoOhno]

Also, the claim was that DA:O had far less advertising/marketing period. And Television is hardly the only type of marketing campaign, so focussing on it then coming back with some sweeping "disapproval" is... well... absurd.

Usually it costs more to market a new product than an existing product.

The rates for Television ads as opposed to all other forms of marketing is High. And since Dragon age origins was released during the Holiday season (where the ads are competitive, especially during November sweeps and the higher rates for the Holiday shopping seasons), the ad rates are much higher then in March.

But you're right, I don't have stats to back it up--but neither did the person claiming that they spent more on the Marketing for the sequel than the original.

If I seem to ask for proof--like I've said upthread, most people are putting their own beliefs and letting it affect the judgement, rather than just objectively looking at the chart. That's why I challenge people who say DA went "up" because of Word of Mouth, but that doesn't work as well when you look at all the sales charts in the aggregate and compare stuff released during the US Holiday Season to the rest of the year. It seems that most people buy their games as soon as they come out and then a rapid fall occurs until it levels off slowly.

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...


But you're right, I don't have stats to back it up  

Indeed.

So where  does that put us.  Oh Yeah.   YohkoOhno is making unbacked, unsourced claims on this thread too.

I'll even challenge your TV claim.  I saw an ad for DA2  during one of the commercial slots  for the Family Guy  (network television.  prime time). 

When  did the Origin's commercial run?    Lets see...  October 25th  (technically before the holiday ad rates) on an episode of Mythbusters  (discovery channel, not network television)

Wanna take a wild stab on which ad was cheaper to run?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 mai 2011 - 04:56 .

[YohkoOhno]

I'll even challenge your TV claim. I saw an ad for DA2 on an episode of the Family Guy. When did the Origin's commercial run?

Prime Time Television on FOX, ABC, and NBC a few weeks in November. Then a few more ads in December.

YohkoOhno is making unbacked, unsourced claims on this thread too.

I think the difference is I am not letting my emotions towards the game or my opinion of the game affect analysis of the sales. When people make a statement (the game X is poor because of Y), that's one thing. When people say things like (Everybody hates it, and word of mouth is making it fail), that requires some challenge because I think more people are reading into stats looking to validate their own presumptions (or wishes), instead of looking at it objectively and seeing what the truth is.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 17 mai 2011 - 04:57 .

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...

I'll even challenge your TV claim. I saw an ad for DA2 on an episode of the Family Guy. When did the Origin's commercial run?

Prime Time Television on FOX, ABC, and NBC a few weeks in November.

BS.   You're producing another unbacked claim.

[YohkoOhno]

Yrkoon wrote...
BS.   You're producing another unbacked claim.

And your statement about it appearing on Family Guy is a "backed claim"?  

There definately was Television Ads for DA:O--I know because people kept complaining about the music used for it.

[YohkoOhno]

http://www.gamebansh...commercial.html

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
BS.   You're producing another unbacked claim.

And your statement about it appearing on Family Guy is a "backed claim"?  

Yes  It IS.  Chris Priestly  even came on this very forum to  give us a heads up on it.

http://social.biowar...0/index/6228014

YohkoOhno wrote...

http://www.gamebansh...commercial.html

Yep.  Mythbusters.  Which is on the Discovery channel.  Not network television, And  Not in November.  and therefore, Not nearly as expensive to run an ad on.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 mai 2011 - 05:10 .

[Travie]

Can we at least agree that they spent a vast amount on marketing a product that turned out not to be worth the hype?

Who cares about relative expense.

[YohkoOhno]

Well, now you are just being contrary to be a contrarian. Note that I didn't call you a liar for your statement about Family Guy. I'm not fibbing about seeing EA advertising. I'm sure if you do a forum search here you will see people talking about the Ads they saw on Television back in 2009.

Nor am I trying to challenge the statements of others. I don't doubt Sabrina's telling the truth about a local gamestore in Europe.

But I don't think that's indicitive of sales in total, and that's why I want to see more numbers when it comes to grandiose statements like "Dragon Age is a total failure", or "Dragon Age Origins actually went up in week X because of Word of Mouth".

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 17 mai 2011 - 05:13 .

[Yrkoon]

  YohkoOhno wrote...

I'm not fibbing about seeing EA advertising. I'm sure if you do a forum search here you will see people talking about the Ads they saw on Television back in 2009.

  That's nice.  But It's not my job to find proof  to back YOUR claim.  it's yours.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 mai 2011 - 05:20 .

[IanPolaris]

Travie wrote...

Can we at least agree that they spent a vast amount on marketing a product that turned out not to be worth the hype?

Who cares about relative expense.

I for one care about the relative expense if it can be reasonably quantified.  Such would provide me with another point of data that would enable me to better understand just what the expectations for DAO and DA2 really were, and thus how well each met expectations.

However, to date, I am not seeing anything useful in that regard so I stand by my prior (somewhat) educated guesses.

-Polaris

[YohkoOhno]

Again, you miss my point. I'm not sure why you're trying to switch gears and talk about Television ads when this subject is about sales of DA2. Nor have I ever tried to be hostile to individuals--again, I've never challenged a person who said "Dragon age is selling poorly in my hometown", but rather people who make sweeping statements in general.

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Again, you miss my point. I'm not sure why you're trying to switch gears and talk about Television ads .

You were the first  on this  thread to bring up TV ads for both games.  Don't even TRY to pin the subject change on me.

If you want, though, you can blame me for  daring to challenge your  BS claims.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 mai 2011 - 05:28 .

[YohkoOhno]

Very well, we can make the following assumptions, since we provided proof.

1) There were television ads for DA2 and DAO.
2) Television Advertising costs more than all other marketing put together.
3) Marketing a NEW PROPERTY is a lot harder than marketing an EXISTING PROPERTY. That's a fact any graduate of business school will give you.
4) Television ads cost more during sweeps.
5) Television ads cost more during the holiday season.


So, using Occam's Razor (the simplest solution is the most likely), we can say DA:O's marketing cost more than DA2.  You can call that "BS", but I think simple business principles support that.  

And you still miss my point, I'm asking people who argue that the game is a failure to at least provide an estimate or some logical information to back up their claims.  You've switched to a specific example where you could find a statement about a TV ad on this board, and while you may have more evidence for that that I have for mine, but that still doesn't refute any of my claims that they spent more on DA2 than DA:O, which seems to be your argument.

I'm not concerned with being wrong.  I am concerned with people making judgements without critical thinking involved.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 17 mai 2011 - 05:36 .

[KilrB]

Embrosil wrote...

simonc4175 wrote...

ConnorHawke wrote...

While I certainly appreciate the diverse opinions around here, I think the clear and obvious consensus is staring Bioware in the face.

On the strength of DA:O, people rushed out to buy DA:2. A huge backlash and below AA score clearly communicated that this game simply wasn't as good as the first in some significant ways.

What I hope is not lost on Bioware, is that, the problems with DA:2 cannot be fixed with small tweaks. They made a fundamentally different game. Now they must fundamentally rethink that approach.

The DA2 demo was released weeks before the final game was published.  Everyone had the chance to see the changes which had been made to DA:2.

There is no real excuse for the people who tried the demo to post unconstructive critism.

If people didn't try the demo they only have themselves to blame as that is why is was released so people could see the changes made.

No? And how about fanboys persuading us in EVERY thread that the demo is not the game and that the game will be completely different? Some people have really short memory it seems. 

I did not fell for this, but many people did. Either because they could not believe that the final game could be that bad, or because they believed in Bioware. Whatever the reason I think all of them will think twice next time.

What did you get to do in the demo?

Fight darkspawn.

Darkspawn that did not drop from the sky.

Nothing in the demo pointed to the inexcusable reuse of maps, the severely lacking interaction with your companions, the trash loot system, the dead and unchanging city of Kirkwall, the jarring breaks between acts, the inability to change anything beyond a sentence or two of dialog, or any number of other shortcomings.

So no we do not have "only ourselves to blame."

[Huntress]

Sabriana wrote...

That's not true! DA:O is *not* unsupported. They are making a patch right now, just look in the DA:O forum.

DA:O is outselling DA 2 on a regular basis here. Why shouldn't it? It's a marvelous game, imo. I've been busy playing my dwarf commoner. Now there's true "awesomeness". I love her to pieces.


Edited for oops.

Sorry, Raen

RaenImrahl wrote.....
There is a 1.05 patch in development for DAO.  http://social.biowar...37421/1#7137421

I should really learn to read back a few pages, and not fly off the handle when/if DA:O gets slighted, even if only in the tiniest amount. Or even if it's only in my imagination.

Well am happy for you not been here when DAO was bashed left, right and center.. i was so angry with everyone at Bioware and forum! rofl.

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Very well, we can make the following assumptions, since we provided proof.

1) There were television ads for DA2 and DAO.
2) Television Advertising costs more than all other marketing put together.
3) Marketing a NEW PROPERTY is a lot harder than marketing an EXISTING PROPERTY. That's a fact any graduate of business school will give you.
4) Television ads cost more during sweeps.
5) Television ads cost more during the holiday season.


So, using Occam's Razor (the simplest solution is the most likely), we can say DA:O's marketing cost more than DA2.  You can call that "BS", but I think simple business principles support that.  

Um no.  We're not ready to cite Occam's razor yet, since you've yet to  even   support  claim  #3 or   #4  or #5.
 
Specifically:  The Bioware name  is ultimately the  product  being  advertised in a Bioware  commerical, and  Bioware is  hardly "New".  Moreover, there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest that ANY dragon age television commericals ran  on network television in November  or  December of 2009, contrary to your  claim that they were aired in both.  But nice  attempt at trying to slip that one past us as a "given", even as I've been here for the past 2 pages  asking you to prove it, and you've been here for the past 2 pages admitting that there is NONE TO BE FOUND

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 mai 2011 - 05:56 .

[YohkoOhno]

Without getting into the argument (since it seems all you care about are attempts to get me to admit I am wrong or just be trollish, and I'm not sure why), there is one thing I'll dispute.

The Bioware name is not that strong in the outside world (as opposed to the niche market of RPGs). It certainly isn't strong as EA and I don't think any Bioware game ever was advertised on TV before.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 17 mai 2011 - 05:57 .

[Beerfish]

Yrkoon wrote...

  Moreover, there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest that ANY dragon age television commericals ran  on network television in November  or  December of 2009, contrary to your  claim that they were aired in both.  But nice  attempt at trying to slip that one past us as a "given", even as I've been here for the past 2 pages  asking you to prove it, and you've been here for the past 2 pages admitting that there is NONE TO BE FOUND

There were tv commercials for DAO before it's release.  I may be taking your post out of context but there were for sure tv spots.

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...
Without getting into the argument (since it seems all you care about are attempts to get me to admit I am wrong or just be trollish, and I'm not sure why), there is one thing I'll dispute.

Yay, it's time  to pull out the Victim-is-being-victimized card!  Real good emotionless debating there too, I might add.  Nice job.

The Bioware name is not that strong in the outside world. It certainly isn't strong as EA and I don't think any Bioware game ever was advertised on TV before.

That's irrelevant.  It's not new, and it doesn't matter if it is.   Networks don't charge more for ad time to new products..

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 mai 2011 - 06:03 .

[YohkoOhno]

Yay, it's time to pull out the Victim-is-being-victimized card! Real good emotionless debating there too, I might add. Nice job.

I don't feel I am being victimized at all. I feel you are getting into the pedantic realm now because you are focusing on a few statements (where you happen to have confirmation) and missing my overall points, and by using sacrasm and hyperbole I seem to have pissed you off somehow.

Networks don't charge more for ad time to new products.

I didn't say they charged more for ads. I said it costs more to market a new product because you have to build awareness of that product. A new product costs more to market because people don't know about it and it has a built-in audience. Just crack open any business textbook.

[LeBurns]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Very well, we can make the following assumptions, since we provided proof.

3) Marketing a NEW PROPERTY is a lot harder than marketing an EXISTING PROPERTY. That's a fact any graduate of business school will give you.

I'd have to disagree that DAO was totally new.  I didn't see any adds for the game that did not mention Balder's Gate, a game that all fantasy RPGers knew all too well.  They were riding on BG's shoulders, just like DA2 rode on DAO's shoulders.

I also don't see what any of this is trying to prove or why.  DA2 isn't selling good now.  It sold great at the start, but we all know why it did (pre-sales and DAO love).  But the game is not that good and it will fade away and be remembered (if at all) as a game that got it all wrong.