1033 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

GvazElite wrote...

I hope this game rots in hell

That's pretty damn unhealthy.

Hell is actually pretty nice this time of year.

[vader da slayer]

knowing what the reaction has been for DA2 I can tell what some of the comments have been in this thread so far (didn't read any of the thread really). but knowing that DA2 is a sequeal while DA:O was a new ip the chart matches pretty much what I would expect both games to look like sells wise.

DA:O - new ip so initial pick up rate will be lower than a sequel assuming that it takes hold with the following weeks not showing a decaying trend curve but an almost steady sales rate.

DA2 - 1st sequel to an ip that was very well recieved with a high(er) sales rate than the first game initially and then falling prey to a decaying trend throughout the rest of its life cycle.

[Myounage]

WOW! Look at those increased day 1 sales! They really did capture the CoD crowd!!!!

[Garden of Heaven]

The only reason the sales were high in the beginning is because many people preordered or bought the game at stores, hoping to get something amazing, sadly that was not so.

[YohkoOhno]

vader da slayer wrote...

knowing what the reaction has been for DA2 I can tell what some of the comments have been in this thread so far (didn't read any of the thread really). but knowing that DA2 is a sequeal while DA:O was a new ip the chart matches pretty much what I would expect both games to look like sells wise.

Actually, if you look at VGChartz closely, ANY game released will have that bump during the Holiday sales season.  It's not "word of mouth" that does it.  Games released during the 4th quarter usually have that curve regardless of being a new or sequel, while games that don't follow the traditional curve.

When I get a chance, I'll create a chart from VGC that will show this trend.  

And to be honest, all games get most of their sales in the first 4-8 weeks.  A game with legs can eventually have the aggregate outshine this, but most sales are like movies--they come in the first few weeks then drop off rapidly.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 18 mai 2011 - 12:27 .

[vader da slayer]

well you do have to be fair there. 4th quarter games will of course follow that for 2 reasons. 1) their time of release, they release during the highest period of consumer spending so it would be obivous that would happen. 2) no one (sane anyway) releases a game that they know wont sell well during that time of year.

[Rauldaemmerung]

Picking up on this thread a bit on the late side, but I would just like to point out a few details. Using the sales data from gamrreview.com I came up with this for total sales in all platforms (excluding dlc, expansions and I presume digital copies):

Mass effect 2 - approx 3 million copies sold
Dragon Age: Origins - ~3.7 million copies sold
DA 2 - ~ so far 1.33 million copies sold

The extrapolated 17 week curve shown before points to a max of about 1.8 million. EA claims two million have been sold already, probably because that number also includes digital copies sold. It might also be reasonable to assume the proportion of digital copies sold for DA2 is likely higher than for DA:O and perhaps even ME2.

Certainly, DA 2 so far has sold considerably less than the other two games, however consider the amount of time that DA: O spent on development for instance. Dev work on DA:O started at the same time that Jade Empire was released, so DA:O was years in the making, whereas DAII was a lot less time in development. One might deduce then, that DA2 was cheaper to make than DA:O therefore potentially more profitable. As such, it is quite possible that on the long run DAII is financially more successful than the other two games based on the investment made versus the amount of copies sold. This si commonly seen in the movie industry where some movies that are commonly perceived as box office duds actually make a lot of money, despite critical drubbings (which I should point out DAII was critically well received). Did you know for instance that Waterworld made almost twice its $175 million budget during its worldwide theatrical run?

[neppakyo]

@Rauld

Actually EA said sold in 2 million, which means basically shipped/sold to retailers. sold through basically means actual unit sold to customer.

Wish I could find it, its buried somewhere in these forums. Someone from bioware said that DAO for the PC outsold each console, but not more than the consoles combined. So a rough guess at least 2 million on the PC.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

David Gaider wrote...

Siradix wrote...
Is Gaider trying to make us compare it to Awakening? They were both released March.

I'm just saying that if one is looking for data to serve as proof of anything other than confirmation bias, you might want to take more factors into account. I recognize that some folks are going to take any statement by a developer that isn't a mea culpa as some kind of "denial of the truth", but I'd say we're well aware of how DA2 is selling and how much of a success or failure that is for our company and Dragon Age's future potential. Whether the lesson we've learned is the one you think it should be will remain to be seen, I guess. Hopefully so.

QFT

[Rauldaemmerung]

neppakyo wrote...

@Rauld

Actually EA said sold in 2 million, which means basically shipped/sold to retailers. sold through basically means actual unit sold to customer.

Wish I could find it, its buried somewhere in these forums. Someone from bioware said that DAO for the PC outsold each console, but not more than the consoles combined. So a rough guess at least 2 million on the PC.

Thanks for the info. I felt that the PC sales were slightly under represented relative to consoles.

[Halo Quea]

Rauldaemmerung wrote...

Picking up on this thread a bit on the late side, but I would just like to point out a few details. Using the sales data from gamrreview.com I came up with this for total sales in all platforms (excluding dlc, expansions and I presume digital copies):

Mass effect 2 - approx 3 million copies sold
Dragon Age: Origins - ~3.7 million copies sold
DA 2 - ~ so far 1.33 million copies sold

The extrapolated 17 week curve shown before points to a max of about 1.8 million. EA claims two million have been sold already, probably because that number also includes digital copies sold. It might also be reasonable to assume the proportion of digital copies sold for DA2 is likely higher than for DA:O and perhaps even ME2.

Certainly, DA 2 so far has sold considerably less than the other two games, however consider the amount of time that DA: O spent on development for instance. Dev work on DA:O started at the same time that Jade Empire was released, so DA:O was years in the making, whereas DAII was a lot less time in development. One might deduce then, that DA2 was cheaper to make than DA:O therefore potentially more profitable. As such, it is quite possible that on the long run DAII is financially more successful than the other two games based on the investment made versus the amount of copies sold. This si commonly seen in the movie industry where some movies that are commonly perceived as box office duds actually make a lot of money, despite critical drubbings (which I should point out DAII was critically well received). Did you know for instance that Waterworld made almost twice its $175 million budget during its worldwide theatrical run?

So did Batman and Robin, and fans consider it the worst of all the Batman films ever created.  That turd went on to gross about $250 Million world wide I think.  Director Schumacher even apologized for it, halfway admitting that it was made more for a "global audience" than fans of the comic book. 

See what I mean? Mass appeal? Global?  Those words keep cropping up on ever stink pile that's ever been made, produced or published.  I've never really based a product's quality on how it's fairs financially. Consider that we live in an era where people who can't hold a tune or play an instrument sell millions of albums and receive Grammy's for their contributions to music.  lol.

Interestingly enough Bioware was once one of the game studios seen as saving the RPG genre from itself at one time. I don't know if too many here are old enough to remember that we once had developers like Origins and Interplay who got sucked into the same trap that Bioware is creating for itself.  Those studios were using alot of the same kind of talk that Bioware is using today, especially with an emphasis on mass appeal and wider audiences...................and they all got HAMMERED in the end.

Modifié par Halo Quea, 19 mai 2011 - 06:07 .

[IanPolaris]

The rule is very simple especially for the RPG genre and similiar genres that have small but rabid fanbases:

KNOW YOUR MARKET!

This is marketing 101. What this means is not to ever make changes and it does not mean to try to expand your audience. It DOES mean that you need to consider first and formost how your existing market will react to such changes first though.

-Polaris

[Rauldaemmerung]

Perhaps I was my intention was misconstrued. I only aimed to illustrate that the apparent low sales figures of DAII when compared to previous Bioware games, should not be so readily perceived as a financial failure. I certainly did not wish to put DAII in the same breadth as poor excuses for cinema like Batman and Robin.

While I do regret the overuse of environments in DAII i found that gameplay was fast paced and fluid, even if I also found the exploding bodies a bit over the top. The story for me is the real plus in DAII. Honestly, people complain about Bioware selling out, but wouldn't have been easier to do a game where the main character is yet another heroic everyman that rises from obscurity to save the world from impending doom? Just how many rpg do we want that essentially follow the same type of narrative? What Bioware did (and kudos to them) was to weave an intricate plot that really unravels in the third act. I personally thought it was brilliantly done and left me wanting for more. So much so I am in my thrd playthrough.

I presume we are all fans here of Bioware. I have been playing their games since Baldur's Gate I and II (BGII best rpg ever imo), and even dabbled in Planescape, and I loved every single game Bioware has released since. I also want Bioware to do well, so i honestly think that applauding the fact that DAII alledgedly has not done well finantially is not the most productive way to spend ones time.

[neppakyo]

IanPolaris wrote...

The rule is very simple especially for the RPG genre and similiar genres that have small but rabid fanbases:

KNOW YOUR MARKET!

This is marketing 101. What this means is not to ever make changes and it does not mean to try to expand your audience. It DOES mean that you need to consider first and formost how your existing market will react to such changes first though.

-Polaris

I think they failed at knowing the market. Try to solve the issues by throwing money at reviewers and PR.

I'm still flabbergasted at why they decieded to do a 180 from origins to make DA2, instead of building and improving on it. They didn't have enough dev time to re-invent the wheel.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Because DAO was boring.

[Skuggans]

They can do whatever they want to, but DA2's completly different gameplay compared to DA:O will have a huge impact on any future releases for some years, unless they create a masterpiece, but it's not guaranteed to sell good anyway.

My trust was abused, give me one good reason why I should buy any game from EA/Bioware again.

[IanPolaris]

Rauldaemmerung wrote...
 I also want Bioware to do well, so i honestly think that applauding the fact that DAII alledgedly has not done well finantially is not the most productive way to spend ones time.

Speaking only for myself I don't think I was applauding DA2 doing well, but at this point I think it's gone way past allegedly when it comes to DA2 not doing well.  "Not doing well" is not the same in corporate speak as "Not turning a profit".  Rather "Not doing well" means "Falling short of corporate and shareholder expectations" and that's where DA2 runs into trouble.

Based on how ME2 did compared with ME1 and based on how DAO/DAA did, I think we have a pretty fair idea what the expectations were for DA2 both in terms of sales (and I mean sold through not sold in) AND it's critical reviews, and indeed prior to publication the Devs broadly indicated what they were, to wit a total sales number of at least 5 million or so (with an effort supposedly to get into the CoD crowd and sales of 10s of millions....but for now I will dismiss that as marketing hype), and a metacritic target of 9.0 out of 10.0

Based on these reasonable and very modest assumptions, DA2 is a dismal failure.  No getting around it.

-Polaris

[Cowboy_christo]

neppakyo wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

The rule is very simple especially for the RPG genre and similiar genres that have small but rabid fanbases:

KNOW YOUR MARKET!

This is marketing 101. What this means is not to ever make changes and it does not mean to try to expand your audience. It DOES mean that you need to consider first and formost how your existing market will react to such changes first though.

-Polaris

I think they failed at knowing the market. Try to solve the issues by throwing money at reviewers and PR.

I'm still flabbergasted at why they decieded to do a 180 from origins to make DA2, instead of building and improving on it. They didn't have enough dev time to re-invent the wheel.

Im gonna go with Mike Laidlaw. Even if it wasnt entirely his fault, he still did a freaking poor job. And ppl saying "fire him" comment are harsh and blahblah.  I dont know what fantasy world you guys are from but when someone do a pisspoor job he gets fired.

[Skuggans]

If they do this to DA, what wouldnt they do to Starwars?

I already found a new MMO home, so I wont be playing SW anyway, I really doubt they can make a better job than Trion or Blizzard have done, EA doesnt seem to have that quality thinking as the others mentioned have. Not from what I've seen in any of the hundreds of EA games I've played atleast. But it have to end somewhere, and it ends here.

[Skuggans]

You can maybe use those arguments while talking to your boss, but for us players Dragon Age's future is sealed in concrete. There is no more milk, the cow was killed by an angry mob.

[abaris]

Rauldaemmerung wrote...

Perhaps I was my intention was misconstrued. I only aimed to illustrate that the apparent low sales figures of DAII when compared to previous Bioware games, should not be so readily perceived as a financial failure. I certainly did not wish to put DAII in the same breadth as poor excuses for cinema like Batman and Robin.

And why the hell not? You opened that can and that can fits perfectly.

Appealing to the masses doesn't ring well, be it movie or game. Lets be honest, noone wants to be that mass being appealed to. But that mass exists. However there's a reason why noone wants to be that mass, because the lowest common denominator is more used to holding a beer can than a book and when push comes to shove has some difficulties writing their own name.

So, lets hope that the lowest common denominator approach doesn't succeed.

[Bio-Age]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Because DAO was boring.

A boring game that sold close to 4mil unit and was critically acclaimed. You know what I find especially interesting since I'm part of the CoD crowd that Bioware tried for with DA2 and the game is one of the most tedious and repetitive games on the market. The Witcher 2 is a far superior game.

Modifié par Bio-Age, 19 mai 2011 - 09:54 .

[Halo Quea]

Bio-Age wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Because DAO was boring.

A boring game that sold close to 4mil unit and was critically acclaimed. You know what I find especially interesting since I'm part of the CoD crowd that Bioware tried for with DA2 and the game is one of the most tedious and repetitive games on the market. The Witcher 2 is a far superior game.

You have to think that if DA2 is Bioware's way of inviting CoD fans to come on over and join the party.................CoD fans should probably feel insulted and not at all flattered.

It's a terrible approach to building a bigger base anyway.  There honestly has to be a better way to attract new gamers to role playing games without killing the role playing game. Otherwise, the only thing you're doing is shoehorning elements from other genres into a title that will ultimately appeal to no one.

[Melca36]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Because DAO was boring.

It may be boring to you but it will still end up selling MORE than DA:2. I suggest you face that reality.