1033 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

To be honest, the reason I bought DA:O originally was because I was eagerly awaiting Mass Effect 2 and I heard that I'd get some extra goodies for it if I bought DA:O. I didn't mind the purchase overall, but even on my first play-through I found myself screaming "When the hell is this frakking Circle mission going to END!?" The Fade is so damn boring no wonder the demons are all trying to leave.

[rolson00]

David Gaider wrote...

Siradix wrote...
Is Gaider trying to make us compare it to Awakening? They were both released March.

I'm just saying that if one is looking for data to serve as proof of anything other than confirmation bias, you might want to take more factors into account. I recognize that some folks are going to take any statement by a developer that isn't a mea culpa as some kind of "denial of the truth", but I'd say we're well aware of how DA2 is selling and how much of a success or failure that is for our company and Dragon Age's future potential. Whether the lesson we've learned is the one you think it should be will remain to be seen, I guess. Hopefully so.

every game has its faults every one! i'm finding all this continuous moaning about da2 tediousi think now this is justa hunch that bioware nkows how a lot of you feel they tried some new idea not all them worked but some of them did. i'm not suprised by japans results due to the fact that they have different ideas of what rpgs are (think final fantasy) just hit them all with a big fish mr gaider i only have a few minor problems with it such as the one race option(i've said that so many times now i'm getting bored typing it) the way some of the elves were done the party member elves were fine but the rest looked like alians(to me) and da:o's camp thing that was was a great addition i loved da:o's convos but i do agree with you that it does need to limated to some degree. Edit took down the chart was to do with ps3 sales should have look better first!



this is how i picture elves as well

Modifié par rolson00, 28 avril 2011 - 08:20 .

[Viyu]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

Cybermortis wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...
Except trolls in general (not just 4chan) have long since made metacritic user scores pointless for almost any game, not just DA2.

While employee's of gaming companies posting perfect scores for their companies games is, I assume, perfectly acceptable....

The low/lower scores for DA2 (certainly compared to DAO) appear on all user review sites - from Amazon to the Internet Movie Database.

Nope! Just further reason not to trust user reviews? Seriously, there are much better ways to detirmine whether a game is 'for you' than a score heavily affected by the undeniable and often large amount of 'silly' votes people make. For example it can happen due to the 'console war' with a PS3/Xbox exclusive or with Mario Sunshine because some Gamers were angry at it for getting higher scores than Gears of Duty 5: 2012 or whatever.

If you really think the user score on Metacritic accurately reflects the quality of Dragon Age 2 then you are both an incredibly harsh critic and probably have your judgement impaired by some bias. Even taking into account all the criticisms of the game I have seen I can't see how you objectively score the game below a 6 and maintain credability.

I can see why some people would. I finished this game in less than a week. The fights were ridiculously easy in spite of difficulty modes, dungeons were repetitive--which mind you, even a poorly rated Sonic game could outmatch in terms of level variety. Player decisions were thrown out the window from the first game, and the devs are saying the epilogues are "rumors". Okay, rumor or no, your in-game decisions ACTUALLY happened.  So that makes no sense and it feels like an attempt to grasp straws to clumsily justify the direction of the series going in a new direction. So basically we're presented a game that's as long as an expansion pack with a but-thou-must storyline almost like Fable or Final Fantasy, when we paid for a game where our decisions are supposed to mean something. It is harsh, but I can see why people do it. A lot of people feel cheated, I understand that.

[Corto81]

Gotholhorakh wrote...
Can I just say that while I agree with pretty much every other point you made including the "alienating RPG fans when you're trying to make RPG games" (I firmly believe that the game, if it's looking to bring people in, needs to have a superset of the new stuff AND the sort of stuff the existing fanbase likes) - we need to be careful of this "FPS people"/"RPG people" fallacy.

I, and most people I know who game, play both FPS and RPG titles. The notion of exclusivity is a real logical fallacy and forms the basis of many a silly argument.

Oh don't get me wrong, I played the AC and Uncharted series, for example, and I loved them.
I probably phrased it wrong, "CoD people", "AC people", etc.
I meant, if I want those types of games, I'll play those types of games.

So if I want an interactive-move adventure, I'll play that.
If I want CoD, I'll play CoD.

If I want an RPG, I go to Bioware... And this time, what awaited me wasn't an RPG experience I'm used to from Bioware, but rather a mish-mash of action-adventure, interactive-movie, hack-n-slash, and RPG.

It tries to be everything. But it doesn't reach any high levels in any of those areas.

[Merced652]

Abispa wrote...

To be honest, the reason I bought DA:O originally was because I was eagerly awaiting Mass Effect 2 and I heard that I'd get some extra goodies for it if I bought DA:O. I didn't mind the purchase overall, but even on my first play-through I found myself screaming "When the hell is this frakking Circle mission going to END!?" The Fade is so damn boring no wonder the demons are all trying to leave.

Hmmm.. 

[SirShreK]

Elhanan wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

More from elsewhere:

http://gamasutra.com...llion_in_Q1.php

So...

105k units on steam . Thanks!

You're welcome! Another 6.3 million in the DA2/Bioware coffers atop all sales for all games gives me a smile, too!

That number is quite low you know?

[Valcutio]

David Gaider wrote...

Cowboy_christo wrote...
And also with actual competition during that time.

Despite the competition, it's simply a fact that games receive a huge boost during the Christmas season.

That and the fact that Origins also sold awesomely because it was an awesome game.

I doubt that kind of information is really what you're after, however, so I'll leave you to your discussion.

Knowing this, you (Bioware), decided to not release it around the Christmas season? And then later blame it for poor sales? I expect more from you, Mr. Gaider. The issue wasn't the release window. You need to man up and admit that the game is a terrible disappointment and promise to do better in the future. The story (among many things) was bad and I KNOW from reading your books that you're capable of far greater feats.

You're too talented to allow a blemish like DA2 to stain your record - and I say that as a fan.

[rak72]

I just want to say, regarding the timing of release & when & why I purchasesd both games: I bought DAO in Jan 2010 based on very good reviews that I was seeing. I loved the game & couldn't put it down for over a year. I preordered DA2 based on how much I loved DAO, so my copy of DA2 is reflected in those 1st week of sales stats.

So I guess my point is - don't underestimate the power of the review, and the first week of sales is probably more a testiment to DAO than DA2.

[Mecher3k]

rak72 wrote...

So I guess my point is - don't underestimate the power of the review, and the first week of sales is probably more a testiment to DAO than DA2.

It is, the first week of sales includes pre-orders from fans of DA:O. Hence the sharp drop the following weeks in sales.

[Anthony772006]

David Gaider wrote...

Not to suggest anything beyond this, but if one is going to compare the sales of the two games one might also wish to take into account the fact that Origins was released shortly before Christmas. Beyond that, whatever extrapolations you wish to make are up to you.

Ok I had a longer more detailed response then my computer suddenly closed the window for some reason.  So I'm just gonna give a summarized response.  

DA:O was pretty much unknown and not advertised all that much.  DA2 had the advantage of being the "sequel" to DA:O  and much more heavily advertised than DA:O.  They had similar competition DA:O facing FPS giant CoD:MW2 and DA:2 being released around the same time as Pokemon Black/White. 

The people that bought DA:O first were probably the people that come on to internet forums and gaming websites and actually seen the limited advertising for it.  While DA2 had a huge chunk of people that actually trusted that Bioware would follow up with a worthy title to be a sequel to DA:O.  Bioware instead released the PoS DA2 and word quickly spread how bad the game actually was. 

DA also had another advantage.  It got an almost immediate price drop(within a month) and was also being packaged along side ME2 which has received mass praise from fans.  So even with the price cut and the 2 for 1 deal DA2 is still tanking.  You're probably still in denial or you're just doing what you were ordered to do from your masters at EA and trying to put your little spin on why it's doing so poorly.  Also just curious how much did you pay 1up, IGN and other reviewer sites like them to rate this game as high as they did.

[Elhanan]

SirShreK wrote...

That number is quite low you know?

Appears to be in the middle twixt those other titles for the same period of time, including more EA products, too. Now don't you feel all warm and fuzzy?

Modifié par Elhanan, 28 avril 2011 - 09:05 .

[SirShreK]

Elhanan wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

That number is quite low you know?

Appears to be in the middle twixt those other titles for the same period of time, including more EA products, too. Now don't you feel allwarm and fuzzy?

Oh no. It is the opening week sales included (pre-orders) number. The only other game like that is Homefront \\. (Portal 2 is hardly a week back). 

[Roronoryu]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

*looks at OP join-date*
*looks at username*
*reads "who cares about Europe?"*

*leaves*

This.

This

[Alex Kershaw]

David Gaider wrote...

Not to suggest anything beyond this, but if one is going to compare the sales of the two games one might also wish to take into account the fact that Origins was released shortly before Christmas. Beyond that, whatever extrapolations you wish to make are up to you.

The Christmas period no doubt contributed to larger volumes of sales but simply looking at the trends is a story in itself. Dragon Age 2 starts off brilliantly which is a credit to DAO if anything, and then the DA2 reviews come out and the sales plummet. DAO was an excellent game where word of mouth spread, the reviews were positive, etc, and the sales tell that story. You can't really attribute DAO's week 8 sales being higher than DA2's week 2 sales simply to the period of time the games were sold.

EDIT: Some people have mentioned that sales don't measure the quality of a game and this is obviously true. Okami on PS2 or Wii is a real gem that sold very poorly. However, it was the first game in the IP. This excuse isn't really valid for DA2 when DAO DID sell well and DID get very high critical approval, so there's no reason for DA2 to sell badly unless the game is disappointing.

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 28 avril 2011 - 09:22 .

[Alex Kershaw]

Valcutio wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Cowboy_christo wrote...
And also with actual competition during that time.

Despite the competition, it's simply a fact that games receive a huge boost during the Christmas season.

That and the fact that Origins also sold awesomely because it was an awesome game.

I doubt that kind of information is really what you're after, however, so I'll leave you to your discussion.

Knowing this, you (Bioware), decided to not release it around the Christmas season? And then later blame it for poor sales? I expect more from you, Mr. Gaider. The issue wasn't the release window. You need to man up and admit that the game is a terrible disappointment and promise to do better in the future. The story (among many things) was bad and I KNOW from reading your books that you're capable of far greater feats.

You're too talented to allow a blemish like DA2 to stain your record - and I say that as a fan.

Agreeing that the story was one of the worst parts of the game for me. I was at the very end of the game and had no idea if there would be another act or not, because there is no plot. You get involved in a few mildly interesting political debates which could be interesting if everybody didn't turn out to be a lunatic and you complete a series of side quests but other than the end of Act 2, I didn't really think anything was 'epic', and I know that was the intention but that doesn't make it any better. At the end of DAO, I furiously Googled to see Morrigan was appearing in DA2 (I only played Origins a few months ago) but after DA2 I still can't care less about any of the DA2 characters.

[Jerrybnsn]

Anthony772006 wrote...

 

DA:O was pretty much unknown and not advertised all that much.  DA2 had the advantage of being the "sequel" to DA:O  and much more heavily advertised than DA:O.  They had similar competition DA:O facing FPS giant CoD:MW2 and DA:2 being released around the same time as Pokemon Black/White.  

you also forgot that Origins went up against Uncharted 2 and Assassin's Creed 2 during that time period.

[Brockololly]

I don't know how much you can read into the specific week by week numbers, especially coming from vgchartz, but the trend is interesting and likely not far from the truth.

Even still, there are a ton of factors to consider:


- What about digital sales for the PC version? I'd imagine DD sales make up an even larger portion of PC sales than Origins, which likely means higher revenue per copy versus retail.

- Not to mention the PC version being $60 as opposed to Origins at $50, which is going straight to EA.

- While Origins had the Christmas holiday, it still came out in early November 09, the week before Modern Warfare 2, so its not like it released all by itself.

- And despite releasing in the holiday season, Origins was a new IP that had to establish a name for itself.

- How much of DA2's strong initial sales were due to preorders? And then, why did people preorder? Because they were fans of Origins or they enjoyed the demo or something else entirely?

- What effect did the early cutoff for the Signature Edition have on preorders?

- What effect does DA2's relatively negative word of mouth have on sales over the long term as opposed to Origins' generally positive word of mouth? Does that show up in reduced DLC sales or eventually, increased reluctance towards a possible DA3 and possibly reduced preorders and sales of DA3?

Modifié par Brockololly, 28 avril 2011 - 09:33 .

[Dragoonlordz]

David Gaider wrote...

Cowboy_christo wrote...
And also with actual competition during that time.

Despite the competition, it's simply a fact that games receive a huge boost during the Christmas season.

That and the fact that Origins also sold awesomely because it was an awesome game.

I doubt that kind of information is really what you're after, however, so I'll leave you to your discussion.

Could I ask if ok, why wasn't DA2 worked on until christmas then if would of boosted sales and could have refined it more during that extra time. Is it because it took a back seat to other titles aka ME3 or TOR? Or was it by choice or contractual? 

Chance of this question being answered? 0.1%

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 avril 2011 - 09:33 .

[WilliamShatner]

David Gaider wrote...

Not to suggest anything beyond this, but if one is going to compare the sales of the two games one might also wish to take into account the fact that Origins was released shortly before Christmas. Beyond that, whatever extrapolations you wish to make are up to you.

Modern Warfare 2, Assassin's Creed 2, FIFA 10, Halo 3: ODST, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Borderlands, Forza 3, L4D2.

I'm 101% sure DA2 would have died on its arse with that sort of competition. 

Hell it's dying on its arse wtihout that sort of competition.

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 28 avril 2011 - 09:36 .

[Anthony772006]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Anthony772006 wrote...

 

DA:O was pretty much unknown and not advertised all that much.  DA2 had the advantage of being the "sequel" to DA:O  and much more heavily advertised than DA:O.  They had similar competition DA:O facing FPS giant CoD:MW2 and DA:2 being released around the same time as Pokemon Black/White.  

you also forgot that Origins went up against Uncharted 2 and Assassin's Creed 2 during that time period.

Oh heck, don't know how I missed Uncharted 2 in my quick search for release windows.  I wasn't entirely sure if AC2 was a huge success.  I just pointed out CoD:MW2 cause I knew it sold millions upon millions of copies.  I would have mentioned U2 if I seen it though, unfortunatley I just browsed through a list of release dates. That makes it even more slanted in DA2 favor for being more of a success.

edit: seems like I missed quite a few more, thanks WilliamShatner.

Modifié par Anthony772006, 28 avril 2011 - 09:49 .

[GammaRayJim]

Ok Origins had Christmas but DA2 had Origins, a built in fan base that for the most part is panning DA2 and the sales figures a proving that out. Does the time of year have an impact sure a lot of companies have their best financials during the holidays. But hearing the lead writer say that "Origins sold awesomely because it was an awesome game" to me speaks volumes.

[WilliamShatner]

Brockololly wrote...


- What about digital sales for the PC version? I'd imagine DD sales make up an even larger portion of PC sales than Origins, which likely means higher revenue per copy versus retail.

They're in the gamesutra article linked above.

105,000 in Q1. 

It got beaten by Homefront for Christ's sake.

[Jerrybnsn]

This tells me that the lesson learned here is that DAIII needs bigger boobs and more gore.

[Everwarden]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

This tells me that the lesson learned here is that DAIII needs bigger boobs and more gore.

Uhg.. sad but true. We'll get more button=awesome and less story.