135 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyJaneGrey]

mousestalker wrote...

In DA2, Merrill loses. Bioware created a puppy and kicks her for three Acts.

Truer words have never been typed.

[Masako52]

Leliana is not a "cutesy girl" archetype. Here's why - she's presented as a mature woman who is a warrior and sexually experienced. Nor does she say ditzy things. She's very witty. Just because she's feminine, cheerful and likes some things that are stereotypically "girly" doesn't mean she's "cutesy", in my opinion. She's a woman, not a girl.

Merrill - yes, I agree with the OP. I love Merrill and adore scenes with her, but I feel more inclined to take care of her and hold her hand and feel dirty and like a bad person when I flirt with her. I do agree that Merrill is not innocent, per se - I love thinking of her as a closet pervert, myself. But I don't think she's a candidate for an ideal romance, as someone as talking earlier about "equals" in maturity and emotional state.

Isabela, on the other hand, is a WOMAN. My Lady!Hawke is all sorts of happy with her.

[hoorayforicecream]

jlb524 wrote...

Do you think this problem applies to both the friend and rival romances?

Yes. At no point does along either path does it become unclear that Hawke deeply cares for Merrill, or that Merrill does not recognize that. On the rival path, Hawke and Merrill fundamentally disagree about the dangers of using blood magic and consorting with demons, but Merrill knows and understands at the basic level that Hawke only does this because she cares about Merrill very much. This is why after Merrill throws the tantrum when she is witheld the arulin'holme and kicks Hawke out, she immediately runs to Hawke's mansion to make amends and whoopie.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

In fairness (and this totally depends on the player, I know), that's exactly how my character felt about Merrill. Merrill was truly the only good think she had, and she was obscenely dependent on her for her emotional well-being. She didn't even have a pet project like the eluvian to focus her energies on. My Hawke was the clingy one in their relationship.

That's a perfectly legitimate way to play (though I shudder to think what might happen in the future of a doubly codependent relationship). It's just not how I saw it. Hence the whole "I don't begrudge anyone else's reasoning, it's just not for me" thing. 

[Gamer Ftw]

Does Merrill have that conversation the Aveline only if you are in a relationship with her?
I thought It was cute how she flirted with Carver that would have been a hilarious relationship.
He would be all angsty and she would be telling him he's cute.
also I am not comfortable with the fact that being with Hawke means she can never go back to the dalish.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 28 avril 2011 - 08:29 .

[mesmerizedish]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

That's a perfectly legitimate way to play (though I shudder to think what might happen in the future of a doubly codependent relationship). It's just not how I saw it. Hence the whole "I don't begrudge anyone else's reasoning, it's just not for me" thing. 

I know, which is why I said that it depended on the player. I'm just talking about how I saw it. No need for your unsure shifty eyed smilie

[AngryFrozenWater]

Merrill looks so sad. It's like she's about to cry any moment.

And finally your reward...

"I am starting to think Sandal is watching me."

What an awful line.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 avril 2011 - 08:37 .

[Addai]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Leliana is girly but I never found her inexperienced or childish. If it turned out she'd been working for the Grand Cleric this entire time and was simply spying on the Wardens, I wouldn't be surprised.

On the other hand, Tali and Merrill being secret agents who were manipulating the PC? I'd see that as a break in character.

My theory all along is that Leliana is working as a bard in Origins, but then the cutesy-schmutesy thing is her act.  It's not just the girliness, it's the fawning over the PC if shown the slightest bit of friendly attention.  I do think it fits the archetype, even if she, Tali and Merrill have individual differences.

Modifié par Addai67, 28 avril 2011 - 08:35 .

[Addai]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Addai67 wrote...


It makes me want to reach for the nearest semi-automatic weapon.

... Dare I ask why?

Because when puppies and rainbows sprout, some random gun violence would restore order in the Force.  Only pixelated violence, you understand.

[hoorayforicecream]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Does Merrill have that conversation the Aveline only if you are in a relationship with her? I thought It was cute how she flirted with Carver that would have been a hilarious relationship. He would be all angsty and she would be telling him he's cute. also I am not comfortable with the fact that being with Hawke means she can never go back to the dalish.

The banter is different if she and Hawke are not in a relationship.

Aveline: I didn't expect you to stick around for this mess Merrill. This has nothing to do with your elves.
Merrill: Everything affects everything. We were born, a bunch of things happened, and now we're in a mess with our friends.
Aveline: That seems too simple.
Merrill: Simple is good. It sneaks up on you, makes you smile.
Merrill: Maybe that should be enough once in a while.
Aveline: Simple it is.

[Gamer Ftw]

Addai67 wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Addai67 wrote...


It makes me want to reach for the nearest semi-automatic weapon.

... Dare I ask why?

Because when puppies and rainbows sprout, some random gun violence would restore order in the Force.  Only pixelated violence, you understand.

Runs to hide the pixelated puppies.

[jlb524]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yes. At no point does along either path does it become unclear that Hawke deeply cares for Merrill, or that Merrill does not recognize that. On the rival path, Hawke and Merrill fundamentally disagree about the dangers of using blood magic and consorting with demons, but Merrill knows and understands at the basic level that Hawke only does this because she cares about Merrill very much. This is why after Merrill throws the tantrum when she is witheld the arulin'holme and kicks Hawke out, she immediately runs to Hawke's mansion to make amends and whoopie.

I guess I see it differently (I'm not sure if it's totally clear to Merrill at first why Hawke kept the arulin'holm).  The make-up scene doesn't happen immediately afterwards either with how I play (I usually don't yet have enough rivalry to trigger it either).  This is why I feel the rival path is less co-dependent and Merrill keeps on doing something she wants to do even if Hawke is disapproving. 

[TheAwesomologist]

Another set of reasons for my romancing Merrill 3 out of 4 times:
1) I love Isabella but her dirtiness really turned me off. Not the jokes or the VAST sexual history but the scene with Anders in Act 2. As my Hawke said "I don't want to know." I had to force myself to do an Isabella romance (which was nice and all, nothing against the love story itself).
2) I don't do male-gay romances and for whatever reason I cannot connect with Lady Hawke. I think I'm just past that phase.
3) Fenris and Anders, while interesting characters on their own, don't strike me personally as relationship material.

EDIT: So basically Merrill is the best (for me) of limited options. Besides she's wicked cute.

Modifié par TheAwesomologist, 28 avril 2011 - 08:47 .

[hoorayforicecream]

jlb524 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yes. At no point does along either path does it become unclear that Hawke deeply cares for Merrill, or that Merrill does not recognize that. On the rival path, Hawke and Merrill fundamentally disagree about the dangers of using blood magic and consorting with demons, but Merrill knows and understands at the basic level that Hawke only does this because she cares about Merrill very much. This is why after Merrill throws the tantrum when she is witheld the arulin'holme and kicks Hawke out, she immediately runs to Hawke's mansion to make amends and whoopie.

I guess I see it differently (I'm not sure if it's totally clear to Merrill at first why Hawke kept the arulin'holm).  The make-up scene doesn't happen immediately afterwards either with how I play (I usually don't yet have enough rivalry to trigger it either).  This is why I feel the rival path is less co-dependent and Merrill keeps on doing something she wants to do even if Hawke is disapproving. 

That seems like a bug. If Hawke keeps the arulin'holme, you should get enough rivalry to immediately trigger the romance scene. I've never seen the rivalry be insufficient to trigger the scene afterwards.

Anyway, interpretations will vary.

[Maria Caliban]

After the carving-knife, Merrill will come to you the next time you enter your house provided no one else is waiting. Different players are going to go to their house at different times. It's possible to complete about a dozen different quests between the the end of Merrill's Act 2 quest and seeing her at the house.

It could be the same night. It could be a month later.

[bleetman]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

also I am not comfortable with the fact that being with Hawke means she can never go back to the dalish.

Her not being able to return to the Dalish has very little to do with being with Hawke, really.

[jlb524]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

That seems like a bug. If Hawke keeps the arulin'holme, you should get enough rivalry to immediately trigger the romance scene. I've never seen the rivalry be insufficient to trigger the scene afterwards.

Anyway, interpretations will vary.

I didn't quite have enough points (but was close) probably b/c I had a fairily significant amount of friend points before refusing the arulin'holm.  IIRC, I had to destroy one of those Evil Tomes of Evil to get just enough rival points to trigger the scene.

But even so, it doesn't have to happen immediately, even if using head-canon.  I RP it as taking some time for things to cool off...more dramatic that way

[TEWR]

I can't see her as a little sister. But I don't have any sisters (3 brothers yo) so that's probably why. I don't know the mindset of a little sister.

[Gamer Ftw]

I don't either but I have female friends I treat like little sisters.

[Maria Caliban]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

In DA2, Merrill loses. Bioware created a puppy and kicks her for three Acts.

Truer words have never been typed.

Break the cutie! Because nothing makes a character adorable like the spectacle of them suffering horribly.

I was waiting for Merrill's mother to appear just so she'd be hit by a bus killed by a human that Merrill had inadvertently enraged.

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Break the cutie! Because nothing makes a character adorable like the spectacle of them suffering horribly.

I was waiting for Merrill's mother to appear just so she'd be hit by a bus killed by a human that Merrill had inadvertently enraged.

Audiences like sympathizing for a happy and good-natured character that gets horrible bad stuff heaped on them. It was the entire point of "Justine", by the Marquis de Sade.

[lilliful]

I guess Merrill never occurred to me as dependent or overly in awe of Hawke (which to me is where the line of "omg I can't date my enmeshed little sister comes into play) or any of those things because I've done playthroughs where I've essentially told her to f*** off for the entire game. If anything, I think her persistent friendliness is characteristic of her persistently optimistic worldview (which, you've got to admit, she's pretty strong to keep considering the events she goes through the entire time). I wouldn't even classify it as naivete simply because I get the feeling she understands the world is a darker place, but simply does not wish to go through life viewing it that way, and perhaps more importantly, that viewing it that way would give it no chance of becoming a better place (which is what she wishes more than anything, for the elves particularly). As for being in awe of Hawke... I think, in her own way, she's in awe of and looks up to everyone, even the companions that openly insult and mock her. Again, I don't see this as naivete, but rather a startlingly wise capacity to recognize what's inherently valuable about others no matter what they might do to you.

So yeah, for TL;DR, to me Merrill is a BAMF for keeping an amazingly positive worldview where she can appreciate others for what's good in them no matter how they might treat her. I don't think it's easy. By living that way, she gives the world the best possible chance to be the place she believes it can be.

Modifié par lilliful, 28 avril 2011 - 10:25 .

[tmp7704]

Well, given this is a forum where people asked for option to romance Bethany, my answer to the topic question would be, "When was that ever an obstacle in romance?"

More seriously, she doesn't feel like a _sister_ to me, but i'd go with Maria's answer posted some earlier.

[Gamer Ftw]

If they made a mod where it turned out Hawke was adopted romancing Bethany would technically be ok.
Just saying......

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Break the cutie! Because nothing makes a character adorable like the spectacle of them suffering horribly.

I was waiting for Merrill's mother to appear just so she'd be hit by a bus killed by a human that Merrill had inadvertently enraged.

Audiences like sympathizing for a happy and good-natured character that gets horrible bad stuff heaped on them. It was the entire point of "Justine", by the Marquis de Sade.

Not sure I agree with that.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 28 avril 2011 - 10:43 .