135 réponses à ce sujet

[Chugster]

halokitty wrote...
ZOMG...I just adore Eve Myles!

Hell yeah, cant wait for the new series of Torchwood in the summer

[hoorayforicecream]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

I simply can't see Hawke and Merrill as being "inequals" in their relationship. I mean, yes, there is potential for abuse there on Hawke's side, but as long as it's never acted upon and Merrill never feels coersed to stay, I fail to see the issue. Merrill is not a child. She has a life and identity outside of her love interest and with all the crap she gets through with her mind still intact I find it extremely unlikely that she would fall apart if her relationship to Hawke doesn't last.

The idea that insecurities and a poor self esteem immediately disqualifies one from being in a healthy relationship is more than just a little annoying and patronizing.

In my experience low self esteem, insecurities (along with clinginess and early declarations of love) are warning signs of emotional instability. You may have had lots of experiences to the contrary, but I can only act on what I know. I don't disqualify emotionally unstable people from all relationships, I just disqualify such people from romantic relationships with me. If that is annoying and patronizing to you, I apologize.

[Xilizhra]

Doesn't Isabela have similar insecurities about commitment and suchlike? Just outwardly higher self-esteem in general, but to be honest, I'm not totally sure about that.

Also, Hawke and Merrill did know each other for four years.

[hoorayforicecream]

Xilizhra wrote...

Doesn't Isabela have similar insecurities about commitment and suchlike? Just outwardly higher self-esteem in general, but to be honest, I'm not totally sure about that.

Also, Hawke and Merrill did know each other for four years.

Isabela is surprised that she is willing to take a chance on love in Act 3.
Merrill asks Hawke to be prepared to kill her as she undertakes a task Merrill herself calls crazy, and isn't even sure of a tiny bit in Act 3.

[Maria Caliban]

I like them both.

I don't think any of the love interests are perfect. They all have their personal issues. They all ask a lot of Hawke. I consider Isabela the most normal but she's still trouble with a capital T, and I know a lot of people would have difficulty accepting a woman who tells you she's falling for you and then attempts to have sex with Zevran.

[hoorayforicecream]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

It's honestly a little difficult to say when the love declaration comes, given that it's a story told from Varric's point of view. According to the game, it happens after three years of knowing one another, but it's easy to forget. I don't think the interpersonal relationships between the characters keeps stagnating for three years at a time, and I don't think that the sleeping together-declaring love-moving in all happens in one go.

I saw it as flirtation over the course of a few years, then one night they had a night of passion. After the ceremonial sharing of muffins, Merrill asks to define what the relationship is. Then she drops the L-bomb. I chose to take it as a literal interpretation. Your mileage may vary.

[thesuperdarkone]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like them both.

I don't think any of the love interests are perfect. They all have their personal issues. They all ask a lot of Hawke. I consider Isabela the most normal but she's still trouble with a capital T, and I know a lot of people would have difficulty accepting a woman who tells you she's falling for you and then attempts to have sex with Zevran.

 

I think anyone would anyone would have trouble accepting people who sleep with DA2 Zevran 

[mesmerizedish]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I saw it as flirtation over the course of a few years, then one night they had a night of passion. After the ceremonial sharing of muffins, Merrill asks to define what the relationship is. Then she drops the L-bomb. I chose to take it as a literal interpretation. Your mileage may vary.

Personally, I wouldn't really be prepared to have sex with someone if I weren't prepared to "drop the L-bomb." Saying "I love you" isn't the same as saying "I want you here, until the day we die!" It's a big step in a relationship, but so is sex to a lot of people.

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I saw it as flirtation over the course of a few years, then one night they had a night of passion. After the ceremonial sharing of muffins, Merrill asks to define what the relationship is. Then she drops the L-bomb. I chose to take it as a literal interpretation. Your mileage may vary.

I don't think that's odd. She was attracted to Hawke in Act 1. She's been carrying a torch for years now and finally gathered up the courage to say something.

It's not: Merrill had sex with Hawke and declared her love. It's: Merrill knew Hawke for three years, fell in love, and had sex with her.

thesuperdarkone wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like them both.

I don't think any of the love interests are perfect. They all have their personal issues. They all ask a lot of Hawke. I consider Isabela the most normal but she's still trouble with a capital T, and I know a lot of people would have difficulty accepting a woman who tells you she's falling for you and then attempts to have sex with Zevran.

I think anyone would anyone would have trouble accepting people who sleep with DA2 Zevran 

He's the only option for a threesome available. Maybe it's really dark in those bushes?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 29 avril 2011 - 10:12 .

[jlb524]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I saw it as flirtation over the course of a few years, then one night they had a night of passion. After the ceremonial sharing of muffins, Merrill asks to define what the relationship is. Then she drops the L-bomb. I chose to take it as a literal interpretation. Your mileage may vary.

Personally, I wouldn't really be prepared to have sex with someone if I weren't prepared to "drop the L-bomb." Saying "I love you" isn't the same as saying "I want you here, until the day we die!" It's a big step in a relationship, but so is sex to a lot of people.

It definitely is to Merrill as she says, sex is an intimate thing and doesn't understand Isabela's attitude towards it.  Which I think is a-o-kay as everyone's attitude towards sex varies.  My Hawke is similar to Merrill so there's no probs there.

Maria Caliban wrote...

He's the only option for a threesome available. Maybe it's really dark in those bushes?

Ouch.

Modifié par jlb524, 29 avril 2011 - 10:11 .

[mesmerizedish]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

And hey now. Crazy-clingy is actually considered a very charming trait in the Anders-romance

The Anders thread is my second home, so you that crap doesn't get past me. It's considered very character-appropriate. But charming? No way. I was upset that that obscene line was the only thing you can say to him. I felt so squicky. Three hours later, I shanked him.

[mesmerizedish]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

... That was a joke. It is my favorite romance, as a matter of fact. I meant no offense.

I knew it was a joke, I didn't take offense

[hoorayforicecream]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I saw it as flirtation over the course of a few years, then one night they had a night of passion. After the ceremonial sharing of muffins, Merrill asks to define what the relationship is. Then she drops the L-bomb. I chose to take it as a literal interpretation. Your mileage may vary.

Personally, I wouldn't really be prepared to have sex with someone if I weren't prepared to "drop the L-bomb." Saying "I love you" isn't the same as saying "I want you here, until the day we die!" It's a big step in a relationship, but so is sex to a lot of people.

I can understand that, but there's still something to be said for making sure that it was mutual before dropping bombs like that. I've been on the receiving end of those long-term torch-carries, but the L-bomb being dropped that early (in my eyes) put a whole lot of pressure on me that I didn't feel comfortable with. I was still trying to decide if I liked the person; it put me in a really awkward position if I didn't return those feelings (at that moment at least, not that I couldn't *ever* return them), especially when I'm still trying to define the relationship (which is how I saw their post-pearl-polishing talk).

I guess it's just that I never saw my Hawke and Merrill as "together" until they had built the abomination with two backs... just light flirtation. If you interpret them as being together before that, then it is definitely much less offputting.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 29 avril 2011 - 10:48 .

[mesmerizedish]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

pearl-polishing

Your best yet

I guess it's just that I never saw my Hawke and Merrill as "together" until they had built the abomination with two backs... just light flirtation. If you interpret them as being together before that, then it is definitely much less offputting.

I didn't see them as "together" until they danced the night away either. But the thing in fiction (of an medium) is that relationships develop extremely quickly once sex has occurred. In fact, "I love you" is often what releases long-term sexual tension and leads to the first sexual encounter.

That's not (usually) how it is in real-life. But that's almost always how it is in television, in books, etc. So I wasn't put-off by it in the slightest. My character had been wanting to tell Merrill she loved her for ages.

[Maria Caliban]

I was waiting for Merrill to tell me that by having sex, we were now married under Dalish law.

Merrill is Merrill. The moment I started a romance with her, I assumed she'd fall madly in love. When she showed up at Hawke's house gushing about how wonderful, beautiful, and perfect Hawke was and how she worshiped her, it was obvious to me that she'd already gone far past the 'love' stage.

Honestly, if you sleep with Merrill and you're not willing to say you love her, that's Hawke being an ass.

[hoorayforicecream]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

pearl-polishing

Your best yet

I do like the look of astute alliteration.

I guess it's just that I never saw my Hawke and Merrill as "together" until they had built the abomination with two backs... just light flirtation. If you interpret them as being together before that, then it is definitely much less offputting.

I didn't see them as "together" until they danced the night away either. But the thing in fiction (of an medium) is that relationships develop extremely quickly once sex has occurred. In fact, "I love you" is often what releases long-term sexual tension and leads to the first sexual encounter.

That's not (usually) how it is in real-life. But that's almost always how it is in television, in books, etc. So I wasn't put-off by it in the slightest. My character had been wanting to tell Merrill she loved her for ages.

I blame Isabela. Her romance tickled me in all the right spots, and I had a hard time going along with anything else.

[Xilizhra]

Honestly, if you sleep with Merrill and you're not willing to say you love her, that's Hawke being an ass.

Given how their relationship plays out, agreed.

And... honestly, Hawke is pretty damned awesome.

[jlb524]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Honestly, if you sleep with Merrill and you're not willing to say you love her, that's Hawke being an ass.

I agree.

It's also possible to let her down after the "pearl-polishing" or whatever youngins these days call it

....at least I've heard.  That would be evil though.

[hoorayforicecream]

jlb524 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Honestly, if you sleep with Merrill and you're not willing to say you love her, that's Hawke being an ass.

I agree.

It's also possible to let her down after the "pearl-polishing" or whatever youngins these days call it

....at least I've heard.  That would be evil though.

If you do, you're ruined for any other relationship anyway. Except maybe with Anders, but that guy's just creepy. 

[Maria Caliban]

Starting a Merrill romance is like taking in a stray kitten. Starting an Isabela romance is like leaving tuna out for a stray tomcat.

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Starting a Merrill romance is like taking in a stray kitten. Starting an Isabela romance is like leaving tuna out for a stray tomcat.

I do love the taste of tuna. 

With wasabi. Mmmmm. Spicy.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Starting a Merrill romance is like taking in a stray kitten. Starting an Isabela romance is like leaving tuna out for a stray tomcat.

Wonderful analogy!

And yeah, I'd rather take in stray kitten in real life. But I'm going to romance Isabela eventually, I swear.