This is the line that needs to be brought to attention. Was anybody else upset that Shepard doesn't give practical reasons for destroying the base? I know that the majority of the people on this forum have their own practical reasons for destroying the base that has little to do with morality. The collector base has no ethical value. Why is that the focus of destroying the base? I am not trying to play as a "good guy" and it hurts the character I'm trying to play as when I sometimes make this decision (it should focus more on the ramifications of giving it to Cerberus or reaper tech not because the base is "tainted").
"I won't let fear compromise who I am"= one of the worst lines in the game
Débuté par
Markinator_123
, avril 28 2011 07:02
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#3
Guest_thurmanator692_*
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:11
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Eh, i doubt it was shep's actual reason, but there wasn't really time to argue the point, so it kinda sums it all up. It's a great statement, just not a good argument
#4
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:17
KnightofPhoenix
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Yea, that line is stupid. As if we give a **** who Shepard is.
#5
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:19
Nashiktal
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To be fair Bioware had to put in a reason-neutral tone. Everyone has their own reasons, and opinions they want their shep to share. Short of putting every thought and reason in existence for that one line, they just went with Hollywood heroic.
#6
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:22
Nerevar-as
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There´s a line about Shepard being afraid TIM would use the Reaper growing technology. Even if not to actually build a Reaper, if he found a way to use it to his advantage there´s little doubt he would use it regardless of the cost. If you have DA:O, think of it as a potential Anvil of the Void. Few take the hard way even if it´s likely to work when an easiest one is available. TIM for certain wouldn´t.
#7
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:32
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Paragons are silly like that.
#8
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:40
Markinator_123
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Paragons are silly like that.
An individual in Shepard's position should not place their own self-righteous ahead of the well being of the galaxy. Shepard's reasoning for this decision should all boil down to practicality but oh well.
#9
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:42
Zall
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Paragons are silly like that.
Yep. Being a pure Paragon, I actually liked that line.
#10
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Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:42
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Well, it's a real argument. Look for instance at how the convention on the prohibition of biological weapons addresses such ban:
It doesn't give practical reasons for the ban. What it essentially says is "we're not the kind of people who would use such things, so we agree to the ban". So as far as reality goes, it's not that bad a line. You don't like it, okay, you don't have to. But there's a difference between not liking something and something being bad.
As for "The collector base has no ethical value", well, I'd say a machine that is explicitly designed to use people as raw material really has ethical value. It's practically the same thing the Lotus Assasins used to do in Jade Empire. They would kill peasants (colonists) and collect their souls (DNA) in order to animate jade golems (Reapers).
"...Determined for the sake of all mankind, to exclude completely the possibility of bacteriological (biological) agents and toxins being used as weapons,
Convinced that such use would be repugnant to the conscience of mankind and that no effort should be spared to minimize this risk,
Have agreed as follows.
It doesn't give practical reasons for the ban. What it essentially says is "we're not the kind of people who would use such things, so we agree to the ban". So as far as reality goes, it's not that bad a line. You don't like it, okay, you don't have to. But there's a difference between not liking something and something being bad.
As for "The collector base has no ethical value", well, I'd say a machine that is explicitly designed to use people as raw material really has ethical value. It's practically the same thing the Lotus Assasins used to do in Jade Empire. They would kill peasants (colonists) and collect their souls (DNA) in order to animate jade golems (Reapers).
Modifié par Nyoka, 28 avril 2011 - 07:44 .
#11
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:42
AlexXIV
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Paragon = idealistic Shep, Renegade = practical Shep
If you want to be practical, keep the base.
If you want to be practical, keep the base.
#12
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:44
Markinator_123
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AlexXIV wrote...
Paragon = idealistic Shep, Renegade = practical Shep
If you want to be practical, keep the base.
Too bad Bioware screws over practical Shepard by making Cerberus enemies in ME3. Now, the base is going to be used against those who kept it. Playing as a self-righteous douchebag is not appealing to me.
#13
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:47
KnightofPhoenix
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Nyoka wrote...
It doesn't give practical reasons for the ban. What it essentially says is "we're not the kind of people who would use such things, so we agree to the ban". So as far as reality goes, it's not that bad a line.
Except it's only typical political white wash and embellishment, but the practical reasons are there and the countries who signed the treaty did so for those practical reasons. Which could include avoiding another type of arms race, preserving the status-quo, not allowing weaker nations to develop weapons like this as cheaper substitutes for nuclear warheads and deterrents ("poor man's nuke" in political science lit)....etc
Unless Shepard is worried about his prestige and international standing, using that as an argument is very weak.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 avril 2011 - 07:48 .
#14
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:48
AlexXIV
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Well yeah but I am not a practical person, so it doesn't bother me overmuch. But too bad for the renegade people. But that cerberus may bite you in the butt might even have crossed a renegade Shep's mind. TIM is not exactly building trust by holding back info and repeatedly sending Shep into traps.Markinator_123 wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Paragon = idealistic Shep, Renegade = practical Shep
If you want to be practical, keep the base.
Too bad Bioware screws over practical Shepard by making Cerberus enemies in ME3. Now, the base is going to be used against those who kept it. Playing as a self-righteous douchebag is not appealing to me.
Modifié par AlexXIV, 28 avril 2011 - 07:50 .
#15
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:51
Markinator_123
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AlexXIV wrote...
Well yeah but I am not a practical person, so it doesn't bother me overmuch. But too bad for the renegade people. But that cerberus may bite you in the butt might even have crossed a renegade Shep. TIM is not exactly building trust by holding back info and repeatedly sending Shep into traps.Markinator_123 wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Paragon = idealistic Shep, Renegade = practical Shep
If you want to be practical, keep the base.
Too bad Bioware screws over practical Shepard by making Cerberus enemies in ME3. Now, the base is going to be used against those who kept it. Playing as a self-righteous douchebag is not appealing to me.
I blew up the base on some playthroughs and kept it in others so I have nothing to worry about. My biggest annoyance once again is the rationalization that Shepard gives when destroying the base. Why couldn't the reasoning focus more on not trusting Cerberus?
Modifié par Markinator_123, 28 avril 2011 - 07:56 .
#16
Guest_thurmanator692_*
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 07:57
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Where does shepard become a 'self-righteous douchebag'?Markinator_123 wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Paragon = idealistic Shep, Renegade = practical Shep
If you want to be practical, keep the base.
Too bad Bioware screws over practical Shepard by making Cerberus enemies in ME3. Now, the base is going to be used against those who kept it. Playing as a self-righteous douchebag is not appealing to me.
Not once does shepard say "I'm better than you, a'cos i gots morals"
#17
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 08:00
PnXMarcin1PL
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AlexXIV wrote...
Paragon = idealistic Shep, Renegade = practical Shep
If you want to be practical, keep the base.
spoilers
Which will give power to the Cerberus, which will turn their back on Shepard in ME3. That's being practical. More problems with Reapers flying around in the Milky Way.
Modifié par PnXMarcin1PL, 28 avril 2011 - 08:01 .
#18
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 08:01
Shadowrun1177
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I don't see how this is a horrible line, I think its a good one. Shepard's basically saying I wont let fear of the Reapers change who he/she is and he/she believes.
#19
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 08:01
AdmiralCheez
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Commander Sherpderp strikes again!
Wrex: The genophage is not the same as the First Contact War.
Shepard: They seem pretty similar to me.
Me: *facepalm*
Okay, that's paraphrased, but keep in mind Shepard says that no matter which dialogue option you pick. Urrrrgh. Shepard can be such a moron sometimes.
Wrex: The genophage is not the same as the First Contact War.
Shepard: They seem pretty similar to me.
Me: *facepalm*
Okay, that's paraphrased, but keep in mind Shepard says that no matter which dialogue option you pick. Urrrrgh. Shepard can be such a moron sometimes.
#20
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 08:02
Jzadek72
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Paragons are silly like that.
Sometimes, yeah. I play paragon, but I was pretty angry I didn't get the dialogue option to tell TIM that I don't give superweapons to xenophobic and immoral black-ops organisations.
Shep can sound stupid at times, on both sides.
Modifié par Jzadek72, 28 avril 2011 - 08:03 .
#21
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 08:04
Markinator_123
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thurmanator692 wrote...
Where does shepard become a 'self-righteous douchebag'?Markinator_123 wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Paragon = idealistic Shep, Renegade = practical Shep
If you want to be practical, keep the base.
Too bad Bioware screws over practical Shepard by making Cerberus enemies in ME3. Now, the base is going to be used against those who kept it. Playing as a self-righteous douchebag is not appealing to me.
Not once does shepard say "I'm better than you, a'cos i gots morals"
-Calling Mordin a murderer and making him seem worse than Hitler for his work on the genophage
-Preaching to Garrus and Tali when Shepard can not grasp what they have gone through
-(both paragon/renegade but still should be considered) judging Vasir for working for the ShadowBroker (seriously shepard wtf and you're with Cerberus and your judging her for working for the ShadowBroker?!?)
#22
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 08:07
Almostfaceman
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Markinator_123 wrote...
This is the line that needs to be brought to attention. Was anybody else upset that Shepard doesn't give practical reasons for destroying the base? I know that the majority of the people on this forum have their own practical reasons for destroying the base that has little to do with morality. The collector base has no ethical value. Why is that the focus of destroying the base? I am not trying to play as a "good guy" and it hurts the character I'm trying to play as when I sometimes make this decision (it should focus more on the ramifications of giving it to Cerberus or reaper tech not because the base is "tainted").
Unless you've polled every single person on this forum, you don't know the majority of any opinion here.
Kinda the point of an RPG, making decisions where some of them hurt.
The Collector Base obviously has the ethical value of any other site where humans have been slain by the millions, such as Auschwitz.
I like the line, because we're focused on character. That is, after all, what most of your choices reflect, what type of character you're building into your Shepard. What we will do and what will we not do when presented with tough choices, that's the appeal of the game. That's how it was marketed.
I like the line because it's an opportunity to say "the quick and easy path is the path to the Dark Side, and I will not take it."
#23
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 08:08
KnightofPhoenix
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Play Paragade man. You avoid being a self-righteous douchebag, and a a-hole. Most of the time.
#24
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 08:10
Almostfaceman
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
Commander Sherpderp strikes again!
Wrex: The genophage is not the same as the First Contact War.
Shepard: They seem pretty similar to me.
Me: *facepalm*
Okay, that's paraphrased, but keep in mind Shepard says that no matter which dialogue option you pick. Urrrrgh. Shepard can be such a moron sometimes.
Eh, don't think so, I think it's more just a case of sometimes the writers give in to the urge to force the analysis of an argument from both sides just so they can get their point across story-wise.
#25
Posté 28 avril 2011 - 08:12
Jzadek72
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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Play Paragade man. You avoid being a self-righteous douchebag, and a a-hole. Most of the time.
That's my tactic, but sometimes you have no choice - you can either give a superweapon to a xenophobe or act Lawful Stupid.
