129 réponses à ce sujet

[IMNWME]

Why?! 

[Malanek]

Vanguard is actually one of the few classes where I don't actually think assault rifle is the best choice.

[IMNWME]

OMG, just ran through Arrival, this is a joke! Mattock procs ammo powers instantly after shields are dropped, which you can accomplish during the time slowdown coming out of Charge. That means enemies are doing the fire dance the entire time you're spamming the fire button. My Claymore Vanguard can't compete. I'm kinda sad

[IMNWME]

Malanek999 wrote...

Vanguard is actually one of the few classes where I don't actually think assault rifle is the best choice.

Can you give me a good reason for this?  Mattock functions as a Shotgun better than actual Shotguns!  It's like an insanely upgraded Scimitar.

[ObserverStatus]

well, mattock is the best assault rifle available to vanguards, and the geth plasma shotgun is better than the claymore, so there's no reason to pick up the claymore if you have the overpowered weapons pack.

[IMNWME]

I actually use the Evi as my backup shotty. I like my shotguns to have stopping power, plus I already have the Locust, Phalanx, and THE MATTOCK for long-range. GPS doesn't proc ammo powers reliably enough.

[Malanek]

IMNWME wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Vanguard is actually one of the few classes where I don't actually think assault rifle is the best choice.

Can you give me a good reason for this?  Mattock functions as a Shotgun better than actual Shotguns!  It's like an insanely upgraded Scimitar.

Well firstly I disagree with this. Every shotgun (maybe not the eviserator) is better than the Mattock at close range against shields and barriers while not using adrenaline rush. Even if the Mattock was better, which it isn't, you would still have to consider how much better and what you are giving up. As a long range weapon against armour the Viper is better than the Mattock, and the locust is better at long range against shields and barriers, again outside of adrenaline rush. I prefer sniper rifle and geth shot gun.

[ObserverStatus]

It's still pretty good though, if you charge it up, biotic charge, and shoot it instantly kills most enemies, even on insanity.

[IMNWME]

Malanek999 wrote...

Well firstly I disagree with this. Every shotgun (maybe not the eviserator) is better than the Mattock at close range against shields and barriers</snip>

You're theory-crafting.   When you're in CQC on Insanity, you will not notice any difference in killing speed between the Mattock and Shotguns except when you can one-shot an enemy (only the Claymore or charged GPS can).  Actually, the Mattock is BETTER at taking down multiple hostiles than any Shotgun except maybe the Scimitar.  We're not talking about the Avenger here.  Also, when you charge whole mobs as frequently as I do, the ability to proc Inferno Ammo instantly (Heavy Charge's time dilation doesn't nerf ROF, allowing you to drop a grunt's shield before enemies come out of bullet-time) gives you a crazy survivability boost no shotgun can match.  You can Charge three to four enemies clustered together and kill them all without ever seeing red veins.  It takes almost absolutely no skill, I swear.  You don't have to aim, you don't have to use the reload trick, you just Charge, point, and keep shooting until everything's dead.  It's forgiving as hell.  The only thing you have to watch out for is cross-fire from enemies outside a 3m radius.

Look, I'm not gonna convince you with words.  Try it.  Seriously, just Charge any group of enemies and start shooting the Mattock with Inferno Ammo equipped.  Just watch out for fresh spawns.

Modifié par IMNWME, 29 avril 2011 - 01:42 .

[termokanden]

Mattock vanguard is fun yes. I only played one for a little while before thinking "Blasphemy!" and reloading to grab the Claymore instead. But I can't deny it was powerful.

[termokanden]

Agreed about the GPS.

Insanely good for everything else though. Godlike in the hands of an Adept.

[IMNWME]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

In my experience, Mattock is better against Blood Pack, Claymore is better against Geth.

Against other types of enemies it depends on the layout of the battlefield.

Mattock is better when organic enemies are packed close together (Vault fight against Chief Roe, Kasumi Loyalty), or when you have enemies at both short range and long range which you can't Charge immediately (Miranda Loyalty, Collector Ship Ambush).

Claymore is better against fat bosses (YMIR, Scion, Geth Prime, Shadow Broker); spread out enemies in a large battlefield with lots of cover (Shadow Broker Ship Exterior, Hock Fight in Kasumi Loyalty, Horizon).

GPS is a horrible shotgun for the Vanguard. Possibly the worst.

^Truth.

You can cover two of the Mattock's three weaknesses though.  I have Stasis as a bonus power for those fat bosses and I bring Zaeed + Tali/Legion on Geth missions for AI Hack.  I just completed Tali's LM before posting this, and AI Hack is monstrously powerful in tandem with Charge.

[IMNWME]

Mattock just saved my bacon. I was on the N7 Eclipse mission, and I charged at the Eclipse Engineer (Shields+Armor), Vanguard, and the couple grunts that make up the last wave. I got the asari Vanguard down to health and doing the fire dance, but I was already in red veins, and an Eclipse grunt from allll the way back was shooting at me. I shot him once long distance, Inferno proc'd, Charge cooled down, and that was all she wrote. If I had been using a SG, that would have been a reload.

[lazuli]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

GPS is a horrible shotgun for the Vanguard. Possibly the worst.

I can't get over that delay.  The GPS doesn't belong in close combat unless it's carried in the arms of an Infiltrator.

[Malanek]

lazuli wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

GPS is a horrible shotgun for the Vanguard. Possibly the worst.

I can't get over that delay.  The GPS doesn't belong in close combat unless it's carried in the arms of an Infiltrator.

You don't have to charge it you know. Even without the charge it deals more damage than any shot gun with the exception of the claymore. Charged, which takes 2 seconds and you can start before a vanguard charge, deals significantly more than the claymore.

[lazuli]

Malanek999 wrote...
You don't have to charge it you know. Even without the charge it deals more damage than any shot gun with the exception of the claymore. Charged, which takes 2 seconds and you can start before a vanguard charge, deals significantly more than the claymore.

The charge up time isn't the delay I'm referring to.  It has a delay on its normal shots as well.  Although this other delay seems small, it's just big enough to be annoying.  The gun doesn't feel responsive, so I don't use it on my Vanguards.  I can't fathom playing an Infiltrator without it, though.

[Malanek]

lazuli wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...
You don't have to charge it you know. Even without the charge it deals more damage than any shot gun with the exception of the claymore. Charged, which takes 2 seconds and you can start before a vanguard charge, deals significantly more than the claymore.

The charge up time isn't the delay I'm referring to.  It has a delay on its normal shots as well.  Although this other delay seems small, it's just big enough to be annoying.  The gun doesn't feel responsive, so I don't use it on my Vanguards.  I can't fathom playing an Infiltrator without it, though.

It fires when you take your finger off the mouse button. I'll have to test this but I am convinced the rate of fire on it is significantly higher than the katana, eviserator and up there with the scimitar although it's clip size is smaller.

[IMNWME]

No. The GPS' RoF cannot compare to the Scimitar's, other than the charged shot -> shot sequence. Also, the Evi does the most single-shot damage out of all vanilla SGs except the Claymore on any protection (shields, barriers, armor). GPS MIGHT do more against shields/barriers, but I don't think so, because an uncharged shot's damage is comparable to the Katana's, and the Evi does more damage in a single shot than the Katana.

[Malanek]

According to the wiki, the uncharged GPS deals 250.38 (if hitting with all 3 shots) compared to the katana 220 (hitting with all 8) and the eviserator 294. The eviserator did surprise me, when playing the GPS feels like it deals more damage. It does deal more to shields and it has a bigger clip, but only a little more. Perhaps it is easier to hit with 3 pellets than 8 or perhaps the upgrades have more effect. The wiki also has its fire rate higher than the scimitar, I'm not sure I trust that.

[ObserverStatus]

All I know is that a charged shot from the gps will kill just about anything, even on insanity.

[Malanek]

bobobo878 wrote...

All I know is that a charged shot from the gps will kill just about anything, even on insanity.

Again, according to the wiki, a fully charged GPS deals 556.4 base damge compared to the claymore that "only" deals 400.8.

[Bi_Winning]

bobobo878 wrote...

well, mattock is the best assault rifle available to vanguards, and the geth plasma shotgun is better than the claymore, so there's no reason to pick up the claymore if you have the overpowered weapons pack.

apparently someone can't used Claymore properly. Seriously, calling the Claymore a crap shotty is the gayest coverup on how many times you've died using it. Some people, such as yourself, just can't use it properly.

Also, why the hell did you evolve Charge when you have already have pause and play? Spending your 4 points on any of the two evolved Charge abilities is simply a waste. But I guess you're on a Normal difficulty run so I don't blame you. You could've used it on something more useful like Stasis or Squad Cryo Ammo. Oh well, there's always the respec option.

[ObserverStatus]

Bi_Winning wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

well, mattock is the best assault rifle available to vanguards, and the geth plasma shotgun is better than the claymore, so there's no reason to pick up the claymore if you have the overpowered weapons pack.

apparently someone can't used Claymore properly. Seriously, calling the Claymore a crap shotty is the gayest coverup on how many times you've died using it. Some people, such as yourself, just can't use it properly.

Also, why the hell did you evolve Charge when you have already have pause and play? Spending your 4 points on any of the two evolved Charge abilities is simply a waste. But I guess you're on a Normal difficulty run so I don't blame you. You could've used it on something more useful like Stasis or Squad Cryo Ammo. Oh well, there's always the respec option.

Um no, actually I play Insanity, and charge can be quite useful for fighting husks. Think about it, If I was playing on normal, both weapons would kill almost everything in 1 shot, and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.  I evolved it because pause and play can't be used to line up headshots.   Frankly, charge is the ability that makes it fun to play as a vanguard, and if i wasn't going to use it, I'd play another class. I am sorry if my opinion offended you, but in my experience, the GPS was superior to the claymore.

Modifié par bobobo878, 29 avril 2011 - 04:45 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

1. Vanguard is the most powerful class.
2. Inferno is the most powerful ammo.
3. Mattock is the most powerful gun.

Months ago when I pointed out how powerful the Mattock was in a Vanguards hands it was considered controversial. Not so much anymore. Either way, Vanguard is way to strong as it is, I don't use the Mattock because it makes an easy class trivial.