44 réponses à ce sujet

[Mind_Games]

Before the name calling ("you're just noob" "lEraN 2 pAlY!!" etc) I have played the game multiple times with multple characters under the nightmare difficulty and I've gotten the unstoppable achivement (finish year 1 w/o getting knocked out even once) under nightmare. Nightmare is and will be the only difficulty I will ever play on Dragon Age 2.

You see, I like a challenge and, for the first few chapters/quests in the game nightmare was a welcomed one. The thing is though, challenges need to be fair and as the game progresses nightmare mode started to break at the seams.

I am sure people who do play nightmare will have some idea of what I am talking about.

No, it is not the theives who backstab crit u for 3/4 hp and steal ur potions. Yes we know they are rapeists who will anal both men and women undiscriminately. They are though, a fair challenge as there are legitmate strategies for dealing with them and personally I enjoy chain stunning them and returning the "favor".

What is broken however, are the friendly fire spells during nightmare mode play. I'll give you an example, WALKING BOMB.

This spell is litterally broken in nightmare due to the friendly fire dilemia.
Yes it is possible to come up with a strategy for using this spell and I'll give u an example.

weaken one enemy
Glyph of paralysis (upgraded)
cast WALKING BOMB
move ur melee chars out of the way
nuke wif range
enjoy fireworks.

and even better strat would be one that plays on the upgrade of walking bomb (disorentation bonus) and combine it with fatiguing fog (which slows + disorentates)

these are viable strategies in which u can use the spell HOWEVER

you have to micro your melee units out of the way in addition, you actually lose dps due to the fact that ur melee characters will have to back out.

Simple math means that this stratgey is not as usefull as say

Reaver warrior draw aggro
tempest
warrior low hp = blood frenzy ability
glyph
and heavy dps

It seems that some spells are rendered inefficent during nightmare meanning they are spells THAT ARE NOT BEING USED BY THE PLAYERS

I think this needs to be addressed and that, regardless of difficulty, all spells should be on par.

EDIT: On par as in as effective as any other spell/strategy combination. This DOES NOT MEAN REMOVING FRIENDLY FIRE as the idea of managing ur spells is a fair and welcomed challenge.
Yes there will be combinations that are better then others but at the very least, the spells should be fundimentally useful as oppose to a spell in which you have to go out of your way to use.

end of edit



On a final note. I'm sure many who have a two-handed warrior opt out to go with Varric, Merril, and Anders. Here's the thing, they don't pick this party because they want to, THEY NEED TO. They NEED to manage the giant's reach talent and most opt to have no melee at all. Although you can micro manage other melee units away, most people find this unnessarily taxing. Imo I think removing the giant's reach normal friendly fire would fix this problem while things like mightly blow can be microed (as this would be a fair micro management).

something else that breaks is the fireball upgrade for mages. under nightmare difficulty it is actually more useful if you DO NOT UPGRADE THAT SPELL

Think about how absurd this is, a spell is more efficent IF YOU DON'T UPGRADE IT!

I seriously hope this post gets through to players and bioware employees alike because, being a nightmare player myself, I feel like I cannot get the full gameplay experience of the game due to the unfair friendly fire for certain spells.

Yes, turning on friendly fire makes for an interresting challenge but at the same time it shouldn't limit players from using the spell altogether.

Maybe u can keep the friendly fire for walking bomb but make it a nuke that kills enemies instantly that are below 25% and cause the explosion. This makes the explosion more controlled allowing for better micro management

Modifié par Mind_Games, 29 avril 2011 - 02:21 .

[mr_afk]

Check out Arelex's Tactics for Walking Bomb. (Not sure if that's the final version I just linked.)
It seems to be working pretty well in the videos (nightmare) if you do it right. There's also an explanation of it in the new tutorial video

edit: What spells other than fireball are not been used? 

Modifié par mr_afk, 29 avril 2011 - 01:56 .

[Mind_Games]

yes there are strategies for walking bomb but what I was trying to address in this post was that you need to have a specific strategy for just one spell

Arelex's tactics also showed another point I was making. The general party is 3 ranged and one melee.


I want to use more melee and in my playthroughs, I do. It just requires unnessary micro management if you have the giant's reach talent.

[mr_afk]

You can go all-ranged if you like. There's several people that have had success with that sort of setup. I think it's also possible to have 2 melee if you micro one of the melees.

But yeah, nightmare ff changes the landscape of strategies etc. I'm still not convinced this is that bad a thing though.

[Jack-Nader]

I agree, and it is one of the main reasons I do not play with warrior characters. The simple fact is, this game was not meant to be played on nightmare. It has been designed around a no friendly fire policy. Even the party AI scripts seem to have your AOE spell damage flagged as a non threat. The amount of times I've see my party members flee an enemy and then stand under my firestorm.. well, it gets old real quick.

Loosing the DPS is also why I don't take the force mage line anymore. The entire spellline disables your team too

[Mind_Games]

I highly doubt you can go all ranged as you need a tank for this type of game, it is in the game design that there is a tank that can take aggro based on the fort attribute.

It is possible to make an unorthodox stratgey for all ranged but it would be straying away from the basic design for this game.

Going back to the point however, I am one of thoese people who do have 2 melee in my party under nightmare and there are times where I had to tell Isabella to hold, away from combat, due to Haste+bloodfrenzy+lowhp reaver mashing away at a hallway which I force enemies to tunnel through (placement for maximum dps).

I can have Isabella backstab onto the other side but then, due to unbalanced fort scaling in nightmare, she would get knocked around should she draw aggro.

fort is another thing that is pretty unbalanced in nightmare, dual weilding rogues should have a talent that increases fort so that normal enemies should not knock them down. Of course it is possible to put attribute points into strength and wear fort gear BUT, there arn't enough fort increasing items early game. It is also unwise to spend attribute points to str early game due to the requirement for cunning and dex for gear.

These are things that should be addressed. A get around is to, again, unnessary micro management or opt for another party member.

I would like to state that I do not want nightmare mode to be simplified like Origins to Dragon age 2 but I would like to see better implimentations and a fairer challenge.

I should not be limited in my spells or party member choice to such an extent where most players opt for 1 melee 3 range. Yes, there should be strategy and there should be limits that seperate good strategy and party builds vs the bad BUT; the limitations should be better defined.

Modifié par Mind_Games, 29 avril 2011 - 02:22 .

[mr_afk]

Hmm.. i think they should have rethought the whole melee aoe ff. Because who's stupid enough to hack up their own friends anyway? (well, a blood frenzied berserk does spring to mind but we'll just ignore that). Removing friendly fire from melee would also prevent party limitations (which suck).

But spells should remain ff in my opinion. Walking bomb is really powerful yes? So why would you want to be able to get blown up by it and not feel anything? Same deal with the fireturds. But I don't know if the game mechanics allow them to selectively enable or disable types of ff aoe damage so not sure if it's even possible

edit : oh and ask Jack-Nader about an all ranged party. I never liked them much due to lack of staggers. 

Modifié par mr_afk, 29 avril 2011 - 02:23 .

[Jack-Nader]

Easy fix - Flag warrior talents as no friendly fire.
Fix nightmare AI scripts.

As for the rogue needing a fort talent, nah. All you need is decent health and armor and you won't get knocked around. That 48gold belt which you can buy from the black emporium does wonders here. +28 health +1 fort from the strength bonus

I guess that just sheds light on another problem..Items are too expensive in this game. Most of the gear, particularly weapons, you have to save up for an entire act to purchase. When you do finally have the gold to buy them, the next act begins and the gear is left redundant.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 29 avril 2011 - 02:26 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Ignore options much?

[Mind_Games]

I agree with friendly fire, I don't want friendly fire removed in fact.

What I am asking for is better implimentation and design of spells that do have friendly fire

My eariler example was make walking bomb and instant kill for enemies below 25%. This makes the explosion more controllable and less spells have to be casted just to use this one ability.

i.e.
tank draws aggro
one enemy is low hp
glyph
tank/melee back out quickly
BOOM
and melee re-enters combat quickly

as the spell currently stands, you need to still kill the enemy before the explosion goes off so you need ranged input to get it off, something that is not as controlled should you have 2-3 melee.

Another design feature would be to add an indication of the aoe so that you can micro manage better and to maybe make the walking bomb spell a timed explosion after 3 seconds that can be casted on normal enemies below 50% and 10% for higher ranks.


Again, I DO NOT WANT A SIMPLIFICATION OF NIGHTMARE

ORIGINS TO DRAGON AGE 2 WAS SIMPLIFIED TOOOOOOOOOO MUCHHHHHHHH

what I am asking for is better designed spells that accommodates for nightmare mode // friendly fire play

[Mind_Games]

Again, NOT SIMPLIFICATION BUT BETTER DESIGN

sry I just had to make another post for it...

[mr_afk]

I found it funny at first. But now it's getting annoying. So i'm editing it out.

haters gonna hate

Modifié par mr_afk, 29 avril 2011 - 02:54 .

[AreleX]

If you give Fenris or Aveline Elemental Aegis and a Spirit Resist rune, they will be completely immune to WB explosions. You can also make them immune to Firestorm quite easily as well.

Also, my optimal DW Rogue party is Aveline/Merrill/Anders. I can count all the times she hit me for anything worth mentioning on one hand. and I didn't invest a single point into CON.

Though I do agree in that I wish Nightmare/FF were tweaked some, so parties aren't AS restrictive as they are now.

Modifié par AreleX, 29 avril 2011 - 02:47 .

[SuicidalBaby]

bro, its called:
runes of warding
aegis shield
rally

I use Isabela & walking bomb all the time, hell shes the one triggering it more often then not

this isnt about design, this about the lack of grasping the bigger picture when you plan your builds
you do plan out what you are going to do, dont you? Of course you do.

I mean who would take AoE abilities that could kill their own group without planning to counter measure the impact of those abilities. (Barring the SH crowd. They enjoy it a little too much I think.)
Its just silly to think someone would do something like that.

[Mind_Games]

Elemental Aegis and Spirit Resist rune is actually a great get around for WB

This planning however, is done for only ONE spell.
I feel that planning should be for the party as a whole as oppose to planning around one spell.

For my party, I am a Reaver with Isabella/Anders/Merrill and with Giant's Reach, Isabella had to hold positions at times or face 1/4 to 1/2 her hp nicked.

On the other hand, your party is optimized for Hawke as a DW rouge where mine is for a Reaver Hawke

Modifié par Mind_Games, 29 avril 2011 - 03:01 .

[SuicidalBaby]

not with a melee & 2h warrior in it.

reaver optimized involves 3 ranged. take a step back and think about what it is you are doing

[Mind_Games]

And this is what I mean for design, for the entire post *eyes roll*

There are unnessary limitations to party combinations.
A better design would allow for a reaver//rogue combination as I like Isabella in my party as well as playing a reaver.


Take a step back and think about what it is YOU are saying.
probably didn't even read half the stuff I wrote...

[SuicidalBaby]

clearly, since its apparent Im trying to inform someone on how to work within the system in order to accomplish what they want rather than complain that the system needs to change to suit their idiotic view of how the game should work. I will lower my syllable count to improve your understanding.

reaver hurt anything close
you want big boobs close
reaver hurt big boobs
you want to change reaver so big boobs can be close
reaver not going to change
you can change big boobs for little boobs or short person so no one but bad people get hurt by reaver
then you can reaver all day
(i hope this is the right reading level for you.)

I read your moronic ideas, the design is not going to change so work with the system not against it.
Your group is not optimized and apparently neither is your ability to adapt.

learn to play noob

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 29 avril 2011 - 05:17 .

[Mind_Games]

Sigh... I have no intentsion of trolling but seriously... You have no substance

Edit: When u edit something as drastic as you had in the last post you should mention that it has been edited otherwise replies such as mine up above would be taken out of context

Not that I think you hav any more substance then before, regardless of the edited post

and in fact, I am currently playing with reaver + Isabella. In most senses this combination is fine however, Giant's Reach causes unnessary micro to maintain this class combination of reaver DW rouge.

If this friendly fire issue was addressed be it DW talent or what not the combination would be valid. This is also something I wrote a few posts back.

Designs can change just like auto attack was added to console version. As it currently stands if most people opt out for a 3 range 1 melee for reaver there are clearly limitations. You fail at recognizing that DW rogue and TH warriors have a combatability problem.

Like I said, no substance

Learn to Read FOOL.

end of edit-

Modifié par Mind_Games, 29 avril 2011 - 07:36 .

[Amioran]

Mind_Games wrote...

I agree with friendly fire, I don't want friendly fire removed in fact.

What I am asking for is better implimentation and design of spells that do have friendly fire

My eariler example was make walking bomb and instant kill for enemies below 25%. This makes the explosion more controllable and less spells have to be casted just to use this one ability.

You can use Paralyzing Prison on top of WB to do this exactly. You will not need to attack. They will explode for themselves a little while after. I do it always with my new spirit run.

[Mind_Games]

Filament wrote...
However it's not really broken, it's just a gameplay mechanic to make it so you have to be smart and avoid friendly fire very diligently unless your character is bad enough to survive the encounter without his companions. Or unless you take steps to make your companions immune to the friendly fire you plan on doing.

If you think it's broken because there's no point in planning which companions to bring and how to make them immune, because you'd do just as well and have more freedom in that regard just by sticking to friendly fire spells... I suggest you take a look at some of the builds here. It appears the payoff is higher for using the more dangerous abilities. Even if it isn't, planning something out and then having it go off perfectly is a reward in itself, no?

In terms of companions I generally pick characters that I find interresting storywise///personality wise

In terms of strategy I like to build characters based on their story//personality i.e. Anders is embodying Justice, which is somewhat synonymous with swift, flashly, strong so a spell like Chain Lighting makes an appropriate spell along with tempest. Combine that with haste//heroic aura and his spells feel pretty in character.

In terms of party strategy I play on syngeries based on my Hawke,
going back to a reaver build with lower hp = more damage output I gravitate towards stuns//barriers (all hands on deck, glyph) for ally abilities. Since I am two handed I max out killer blow and wait till I am low hp to dish out heavy damage wif a brittle blow.

The problem I find is with integrating Isabella  based on Giant's Reach talent. I DO have to micro manage her so that she is out of range but because this is a CONSTANT management I feel it is more of a burden then a challenge.

Edit:I don't mind constant management as long as it is not knit picking micro management such as minor character placements.

end of edit-

Spirit bomb is not part of my rotation nor is it a spell that I use with my current party build. I only brought it up to highlight other problems that occur when trying to pick characters and spells that you would prefer to play but have to scale a, unnecessary wall, to climb the mountain.

You also can't argue that in nightmare, unless ur melee characters have high fire resitance gear, the talent upgrade for fireball actually causes it to be less effective.

Modifié par Mind_Games, 29 avril 2011 - 07:45 .

[Att3r0]

gonna keep it short ...

rally+aegis + rune or aegis+rune+goad +pull out rest = your way to use walking bomb... also 100% MR works too . walking bomb basicly if you kill one it kills the rest for you - if you could use it without effort to protect your party that would be broken.. only complain i have is that stonewall doesnt protect against it ;/

Not every setup works, if warriors would have no FF then you would run around with hawke 2h fenris 2h and isabela running between them. I played whole game with fenris with controling him only for goad/bomb/rally. I just skiped scythe and wirlwind talents and it was fine.
alternativly you can give your 2h elemental weapon and socket your melee to have that resistance ..
Up for fireball spell - give fireball more damage fist then we can talk ... yes there are broken talents eureka!

closing - nightmare is not balanced nor well made however FF is one of things that i ehem ..like ? sure its hard and require a lot of menagment but thats why we play Nightmare right?

on side note : Strategic view would make things so much simplier control wise...

Modifié par Att3r0, 29 avril 2011 - 08:13 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Modified about x hours ago - Pretty clear indication the post was edited.

You fail at recognizing that DW rogue and TH warriors have a combatability problem. - That was my point fool. If they have a compatibility issue, then how is your group optimized? No, dont answer that. Just continue to ignore your clear and admited lack of knowledge about the game while railing to have it modified to fit your impeccable version of how it should be. The rest of us will continue to do the things you can only hope to reproduce.

at least youre good for a laugh

[Mind_Games]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Modified about x hours ago - Pretty clear indication the post was edited.

You fail at recognizing that DW rogue and TH warriors have a combatability problem. - That was my point fool. If they have a compatibility issue, then how is your group optimized?

Allow for a DW rogue TH warrior talent//ability that gets past Giant's Reach such as a 100% dodge//immunity chance for rogue during a short period of time (the time that haste, blood frenzy activates)

Question answered.

No substance, no analytical qualities, not capable of finding reasonable solutions, jumps to conclusions, and gives up on trying to make things work for him//her

You know what makes you?

No not a laugh, just some patheic loser who can't even troll w/o using insults the other person threw at them (i.e. "fool" that's u)

Edit: don't forget to mention if you edit ok

loser...

Modifié par Mind_Games, 29 avril 2011 - 08:21 .