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[Gatt9]

AlanC9 wrote...

How is it that a mission complete screen breaks immersion, but XP popups all the freakin' time don't?

I don't think I'd term it as immersion breaking,  so much as jarringly out of place.  I've known a few GM's who would do something like that after completing a major task as a way to keep players focused on the larger goal.

But in ME2,  it really serves as a "In your face" way of saying that you're no longer playing an RPG,  as it's less a summary and more an "End of level" screen,  not too dissimiliar from say the screens in Doom.  It doesn't really tell you how anything fit together,  nor does it really add narrative.  Which combined with the other things removed in ME2 just kind of digs the knife a little deeper.

Although,  I will give it a little immersion breaking in that if you rescue X,  you immediately get sucked into that screen taking you out of the narrative,  then dumped back into the narrative back on the ship.

Which is more a design flaw in that the game is designed so very linearly that the process to X is a corridor with no branches and nothing else occuring.  Which is in contrast to ME,  where getting Tali was part of a entire area that didn't end with her.  So once you get X,  if they didn't have the screen,  it'd just be a long pointless walk back due to design flaws.

Which just ties into my whole "It's a shooter" belief,  as it has no more (mission) exploration or interaction than Gears of War,  get task,  proceed to end of corridor,  with no reason to go backwards ever.

That's one of ME's bigger flaws,  it's just a series of linear corridor runs with little else to do,  with the sole exception being Illium.  Even the Citadel is just one big circular corridor that you don't need to ever go back through once you've made the round.

[ExtremeOne]

The mission complete screen was not a problem for me . Games are about game play and I am not interested in sitting through a bunch of garbage to play the game 's next part .

[ExtremeOne]

Gatt9 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

How is it that a mission complete screen breaks immersion, but XP popups all the freakin' time don't?

I don't think I'd term it as immersion breaking,  so much as jarringly out of place.  I've known a few GM's who would do something like that after completing a major task as a way to keep players focused on the larger goal.

But in ME2,  it really serves as a "In your face" way of saying that you're no longer playing an RPG,  as it's less a summary and more an "End of level" screen,  not too dissimiliar from say the screens in Doom.  It doesn't really tell you how anything fit together,  nor does it really add narrative.  Which combined with the other things removed in ME2 just kind of digs the knife a little deeper.

Although,  I will give it a little immersion breaking in that if you rescue X,  you immediately get sucked into that screen taking you out of the narrative,  then dumped back into the narrative back on the ship.

Which is more a design flaw in that the game is designed so very linearly that the process to X is a corridor with no branches and nothing else occuring.  Which is in contrast to ME,  where getting Tali was part of a entire area that didn't end with her.  So once you get X,  if they didn't have the screen,  it'd just be a long pointless walk back due to design flaws.

Which just ties into my whole "It's a shooter" belief,  as it has no more (mission) exploration or interaction than Gears of War,  get task,  proceed to end of corridor,  with no reason to go backwards ever.

That's one of ME's bigger flaws,  it's just a series of linear corridor runs with little else to do,  with the sole exception being Illium.  Even the Citadel is just one big circular corridor that you don't need to ever go back through once you've made the round.

   



The idea of Mass Effect 2 is not a rpg needs to f**king die. Mass Effect 1 was a disaster as far as combing a rpg with a shooter . If a developer makes a game that has shooting in it and they say its a form of combat in the game . You dam right they have to get the combat right . ME 2 is a rpg the only thing is its stream line.  ME 1 from a combat game play point of view was complete and utter garbage . They had no choice in ME 2 but to fix the combat .  

[Ahglock]

termokanden wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Sure, but if something is more common to genre X and not really in RPGs that aspect might not be RPG like.  Saying ME2 isn't a RPG because of X is usually unwaranted, but saying that part is not RPG like or is not influenced by RPGs might be accurate.

I agree to the extent that if you define RPGs as what they're usually like and you've played previous BioWare titles and similar games, this is not a feature that is "RPG like".

But I still think it's wrong to say it makes the game less of an RPG. It really doesn't mean there's less roleplaying going on. Perhaps it makes it more like a computer game and less of a continuous story being told. I think that's a much better point to make. Even if it didn't really annoy me, I can certainly understand if that is considered a problem.

We're not really arguing about whether the mission complete screens detract from that game or not. As I've said, I understand if they do for some people and it's something for BioWare to consider.

By the way, some gamemasters in my pen and paper days would give you a small debriefing after each roleplaying session where XP would be handed out and you could discuss out of character what happened a bit. Actually it's kind of the same thing as giving you a screen after each mission that says "You earned 156 xp".

Yeah, like I said this is low on my list of lack of RPG features.  And when I was more organized/had more energy I used ot send emails that summed up events in my pen and paper games, It reduced the WTF did we do 2 weeks ago in the game moments.  

[Ahglock]

ExtremeOne wrote...


The idea of Mass Effect 2 is not a rpg needs to f**king die. Mass Effect 1 was a disaster as far as combing a rpg with a shooter . If a developer makes a game that has shooting in it and they say its a form of combat in the game . You dam right they have to get the combat right . ME 2 is a rpg the only thing is its stream line.  ME 1 from a combat game play point of view was complete and utter garbage . They had no choice in ME 2 but to fix the combat .  

Calling ME1 a disaster as fas a combining a RPG with a shooter is about as innacurate as saying ME2 isn't a RPG.  ME1's combat was far from being complete and utter garbage.  It could be improved and yes they improved in with ME2.  Just like ME2 could improve its RPG features, which is seems they will be improving to some degree.  

[AlanC9]

Gatt9 wrote...
But in ME2,  it really serves as a "In your face" way of saying that you're no longer playing an RPG,  as it's less a summary and more an "End of level" screen,  not too dissimiliar from say the screens in Doom.  It doesn't really tell you how anything fit together,  nor does it really add narrative.  Which combined with the other things removed in ME2 just kind of digs the knife a little deeper.

No longer playng an RPG? How so? Obviously not because most of the individual missions don't tie into the main narrative, because if that's the criterion Baldur's Gate isn't an RPG.

From the rest of your post I'm going to guess that it has something to do with area interconnectivity falling below some sort of threshold value.

[Terror_K]

AlanC9 wrote...

How is it that a mission complete screen breaks immersion, but XP popups all the freakin' time don't?

Subtlety basically. In ME1 such pop-ups were small and out of the way, only telling you the bare minimum of info needed when needed in a very simple and quick manner that didn't interrupt the flow of the game. "Mission Complete" screens grind everything to a halt and make it all feel divided up and like the game consists of levels, as well as providing a whole bunch of info at once, most of which is unnecessary and the rest of which lacks context. Not to mention earning XP is completely meaningless when it's just an arbritrary number that's the same no matter how the mission was done and that conveniently levels up up after pretty much every mission. The pop-ups in ME2 break immersion, but that's because they're so friggin' large and in-your-face, with big pictures that treat you like a child and that you can't not notice.

[Ahglock]

Terror_K wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

How is it that a mission complete screen breaks immersion, but XP popups all the freakin' time don't?

Subtlety basically. In ME1 such pop-ups were small and out of the way, only telling you the bare minimum of info needed when needed in a very simple and quick manner that didn't interrupt the flow of the game. "Mission Complete" screens grind everything to a halt and make it all feel divided up and like the game consists of levels, as well as providing a whole bunch of info at once, most of which is unnecessary and the rest of which lacks context. Not to mention earning XP is completely meaningless when it's just an arbritrary number that's the same no matter how the mission was done and that conveniently levels up up after pretty much every mission. The pop-ups in ME2 break immersion, but that's because they're so friggin' large and in-your-face, with big pictures that treat you like a child and that you can't not notice.

In ME1 unless I was specifically looking for them I never noticed things like achciement gain or XP earned on a kill.  Now when I was reloding constantly before a big fight so I could get my 150 shotgun kills yeah I saw the achievement, since that was what I was waiting for.  

[Nar911t]

I do not know what BW is upto for ME3, but all i know that ME1 felt like an experince, while ME2 felt like a game. complete and loading screens were some of the reasons. not to mention looking at a loading screen going from one point to another instead of driving there yourself.
BW should study consumer and fans behavior when playing RPGs, they want to be lost in it, live it. if that meant spending sometime in an elevator talking or listening (like you would in real life) or walking back to your ship, then fine, let it be.
i hope for ME3 they go back to thier orginal thinking when they desinged ME1, while incoporating all the great achivments they had in ME2. fingers crossed [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

[kirstieroo]

Sparroww wrote...

An option for Shepard's private terminal where we can view summaries from previous missions with stats (like number of enemies killed, mission completion time etc.) could be implemented as a side-feature though.

I really like this idea. I find those kind of stats really interesting.

(Edited to finish typing my sentence!)

Modifié par kirstieroo, 23 novembre 2011 - 05:49 .

[Reorte]

Nar911t wrote...

I do not know what BW is upto for ME3, but all i know that ME1 felt like an experince, while ME2 felt like a game. complete and loading screens were some of the reasons. not to mention looking at a loading screen going from one point to another instead of driving there yourself.
BW should study consumer and fans behavior when playing RPGs, they want to be lost in it, live it. if that meant spending sometime in an elevator talking or listening (like you would in real life) or walking back to your ship, then fine, let it be.
i hope for ME3 they go back to thier orginal thinking when they desinged ME1, while incoporating all the great achivments they had in ME2. fingers crossed [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

Funny, it was the other way around for me, although that's possibly down to playing ME2 before ME1 (so when I played ME1 I had a reasonable idea about what was going on and what was going to happen). The loading screens and mission complete screens were a bit of a jar but ultimately not that significant IMO. ME1's approach was better but ultimately not a significant difference.

[ZLurps]

Nar911t wrote...

I do not know what BW is upto for ME3, but all i know that ME1 felt like an experince, while ME2 felt like a game. complete and loading screens were some of the reasons. not to mention looking at a loading screen going from one point to another instead of driving there yourself.

Well said. I think some sort of hybrid solution might work.. ME style after major missions and mission complete screen after N7 missions.