380 réponses à ce sujet

[Tommy6860]

Yrkoon wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Really it just boils down to they needed money fast, a quick grab at the expense of a good franchise to put right back into bioware's mass effect trilogy, which might actually pay off with mass effect 3,

I *seriously* doubt this was their motive/Plan, considering DA:O was Bioware's biggest selling game.

Lets think about that for a second....  DA:O was Bioware's  Biggest.  Selling.  Game.  It sold more than Mass Effect.  It sold more than Mass Effect 2.   Why would they sacrifice/kill a franchise containing their Biggest.  Selling. Game.  in order  to boost funds  for a franchise containing games that don't sell as well?

To be fair though, when comparing the game to ME and ME2, DA:O was released across three platforms at the same time. ME was, for the first 6 months Xbxo360 only, then PC. ME2 was 360 and PC only. When they were respectively released on other platoforms ong after the initial release, they didn't do so well. But, if you take ME an ME2 just on the 360, Origins didn't sell as well as those two.. So, comparing it to the ME series is subjective when considering this.

Yes, we can spin numbers and come up with a perfectly 'rational' reason why 3 million units sold is  less than 2 million units sold, but  this isn't a "subjective" topic, and "creativity" doesn't score you points here.     DA:O sold more units than either  of the  ME games.    And that's  the only thing that matters to the investors.

True, and since you said inverstors, than ME and ME2 were by far the biggest money makers, since they are console to PC ports. It is far faster and cheaper to develop games on console than it is on PC. So, unless Origins overall end profits were more than ME2's even, it really doesn't matter.

[Yrkoon]

Tommy6860 wrote...


True, and since you said inverstors, than ME and ME2 were by far the biggest money makers, since they are console to PC ports. It is far faster and cheaper to develop games on console than it is on PC. So, unless Origins overall end profits were more than ME2's even, it really doesn't matter.

You have NO idea how much it cost to make each game.  Don't even pretend that you do.

[Rawgrim]

Its like this. You go to a restaurant, having pre-ordered a particular dinner. The restaurant promises a 3 course dinner with some desert. They say this and that will be in the dinner, and this and that will be in the desert. So far so good. Then you finally get the dinner, and its not what the restaurant promised at all. Things on the plate seems a mess, and it looks like the cook just poured everything onto it in a rush. To add to it, the fork is bent and the knife is dull.

So yes. People are allowed to complain and whine when this happens.

[Mad-Max90]

^ nicely put

[hoorayforicecream]

Tommy6860 wrote...

True, and since you said inverstors, than ME and ME2 were by far the biggest money makers, since they are console to PC ports. It is far faster and cheaper to develop games on console than it is on PC. So, unless Origins overall end profits were more than ME2's even, it really doesn't matter.

It is not faster and cheaper to develop games on the console than on PC. The reason publishers prefer to develop for console over PC is because console games sell a lot more than PC games do. The only exceptions to this rule appear to be games titled "World of Warcraft" and "The Sims".

[Rawgrim]

I suspect console games sells better than PC games because PC games are easier to come by illegally. All you need is a crack and stuff right?

[hoorayforicecream]

Rawgrim wrote...

I suspect console games sells better than PC games because PC games are easier to come by illegally. All you need is a crack and stuff right?

Not really. There's a lot of reasons why PC games don't sell as well as console games, and nobody really agrees which of them is really important. The common reasons given are:

1. Piracy, as you stated
2. Brand new games tend to run badly on old PCs
3. Needing to run through a bunch of extra hoops to set up and install PC games
4. PC Hardware life cycle is shorter than consoles. A top end gaming PC will be out of date in a year or two. PS3 and 360 came out 5 years ago.
5. Having no real standardized platform for graphics, sound, etc. is annoying

There's a lot of potential reasons, but nobody's figured out *the* reason.

[Rockpopple]

That list pretty much sums it all up though. Nicely put.

[Rawgrim]

Point 2 is exactly why I bought a console actually. Got fed up with upgrading my PC all the time.

[Yrkoon]

Rawgrim wrote...

Its like this. You go to a restaurant, having pre-ordered a particular dinner. The restaurant promises a 3 course dinner with some desert. They say this and that will be in the dinner, and this and that will be in the desert. So far so good. Then you finally get the dinner, and its not what the restaurant promised at all. Things on the plate seems a mess, and it looks like the cook just poured everything onto it in a rush. To add to it, the fork is bent and the knife is dull.

Oh, don't sell this analogy short.

  As you sit down, the waiter informs you that   for an extra $5, he'll bring you a sharp knife and a good fork.  You then  look closer at the plate and you notice that all 3 courses and the desert look exactly the same.    Also,  you decided to keep an open mind and eat the dinner anyway, but after you've finished the first course, you look up and  notice more  food falling from the ceiling on to your plate.  You turn to talk to the other customers but they have nothing to say to you.

And before you can finish  your dinner, the  waiter comes and takes your plate away from you, and  kicks you out, without an explanation.

As you leave the building, you see  a giant  Neon sign in front of the Door you just exited:    Push for AWESOME.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 04 mai 2011 - 04:24 .

[Khayness]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

4. PC Hardware life cycle is shorter than consoles. A top end gaming PC will be out of date in a year or two. PS3 and 360 came out 5 years ago.

Played DA2 with a mostly 7 years old rig (AGP motherboard and single core CPU ftw).

Games don't evolve that quickly anymore to justify that point.

[hoorayforicecream]

Yrkoon wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its like this. You go to a restaurant, having pre-ordered a particular dinner. The restaurant promises a 3 course dinner with some desert. They say this and that will be in the dinner, and this and that will be in the desert. So far so good. Then you finally get the dinner, and its not what the restaurant promised at all. Things on the plate seems a mess, and it looks like the cook just poured everything onto it in a rush. To add to it, the fork is bent and the knife is dull.

Oh, don't sell this analogy short.

  As you sit down, the waiter informs you that   for an extra $5, he'll bring you a sharp knife and a good fork.  You then  look closer at the plate and you notice that all 3 courses and the desert look exactly the same.    Also,  you decided to keep an open mind and eat the dinner anyway, but after you've finished the first course, you look up and  notice more  food falling from the ceiling on to your plate.  You turn to talk to the other customers but they have nothing to say to you.

And before you can finish desert, the resteraunt closes and you're kicked out, without an explanation.

... So you go back to the restaurant every night for the weeks following to complain and shout at the other customers who may actually be enjoying their meals?

[Yrkoon]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its like this. You go to a restaurant, having pre-ordered a particular dinner. The restaurant promises a 3 course dinner with some desert. They say this and that will be in the dinner, and this and that will be in the desert. So far so good. Then you finally get the dinner, and its not what the restaurant promised at all. Things on the plate seems a mess, and it looks like the cook just poured everything onto it in a rush. To add to it, the fork is bent and the knife is dull.

Oh, don't sell this analogy short.

  As you sit down, the waiter informs you that   for an extra $5, he'll bring you a sharp knife and a good fork.  You then  look closer at the plate and you notice that all 3 courses and the desert look exactly the same.    Also,  you decided to keep an open mind and eat the dinner anyway, but after you've finished the first course, you look up and  notice more  food falling from the ceiling on to your plate.  You turn to talk to the other customers but they have nothing to say to you.

And before you can finish desert, the resteraunt closes and you're kicked out, without an explanation.

... So you go back to the restaurant every night for the weeks following to complain and shout at the other customers who may actually be enjoying their meals?

  Yes,  because, oddly enough,  The  Restaurant  does  have a giant section  designed for customers to come in and have  discussions about their  dining experience.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 04 mai 2011 - 04:30 .

[Mad-Max90]

^ buahahahaha, way to throw that right back like the hot potato that was

[hoorayforicecream]

Yrkoon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

... So you go back to the restaurant every night for the weeks following to complain and shout at the other customers who may actually be enjoying their meals?

  Yes,  because, oddly enough,  The  Restaurant  does  have a giant section  designed for customers to come in and have  discussions about their  dining experience.

I tend not to go to places that I hate. Maybe you have some sort of masochistic tendencies. Though if you want to make everyone else as miserable as you, I guess that would be sadistic tendencies instead. 

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

  Yes,  because, oddly enough,  The  Restaurant  does  have a giant section  designed for customers to come in and have  discussions about their  dining experience.

That would be called the bar. And please everyone, stop taliking about restaurants; it's killing me here....

[mesmerizedish]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

... So you go back to the restaurant every night for the weeks following to complain and shout at the other customers who may actually be enjoying their meals?

  Yes,  because, oddly enough,  The  Restaurant  does  have a giant section  designed for customers to come in and have  discussions about their  dining experience.

I tend not to go to places that I hate. Maybe you have some sort of masochistic tendencies. Though if you want to make everyone else as miserable as you, I guess that would be sadistic tendencies instead. 

It could be both? But maybe we should talk more about that in private




I've only ever been an active member of a few developers' forums. When I do so, it's because I think their games represent the absolute best in their genre, and I want to play them, mod them, and talk about them with like-minded individuals. If I don't like a game, and I'm not playing that game, why would I go to that game's forums?!

Case-in-point: I didn't love Mass Effect or ME2. I do love DAII. I do not complain about all the things I didn't like about ME2. I do talk about the things I liked about DAII. I also talk about the things I didn't like about DAII, but only because I did like the game as a whole.

[Yrkoon]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

... So you go back to the restaurant every night for the weeks following to complain and shout at the other customers who may actually be enjoying their meals?

  Yes,  because, oddly enough,  The  Restaurant  does  have a giant section  designed for customers to come in and have  discussions about their  dining experience.

I tend not to go to places that I hate. Maybe you have some sort of masochistic tendencies. Though if you want to make everyone else as miserable as you, I guess that would be sadistic tendencies instead. 

  Or maybe I really care about the Resteraunt?    The thing is, I used to LOVE the restauraint.  I've eaten there for 10 years,  and all their food and service used to be the best.   But now they seem to be serving crap.  And I'm here to find out what the hell happened.  New management maybe? 

[Mad-Max90]

Or maybe the guy happens to like bioware as a company but is disappointed when the game is nowhere near the game they marketed and even talked about in the dev diaries which mind you really started pumping out a 3-4 months before release and ended a couple weeks before release, they could have stated that many of the things they promised didn't make the cut, but they didn't they they repeatedly lied about the contents of the game.

It's not our fault that they have a forum where one can state his reasons for liking/not liking the game, but if we all went by Your logic of don't complain if you don't like something then we would still be listening to the radio instead of watching tv in the living room

[hoorayforicecream]

Yrkoon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

... So you go back to the restaurant every night for the weeks following to complain and shout at the other customers who may actually be enjoying their meals?

  Yes,  because, oddly enough,  The  Restaurant  does  have a giant section  designed for customers to come in and have  discussions about their  dining experience.

I tend not to go to places that I hate. Maybe you have some sort of masochistic tendencies. Though if you want to make everyone else as miserable as you, I guess that would be sadistic tendencies instead. 

  Or maybe I really care about the Resteraunt?    The thing is, I used to LOVE the restauraint.  I've eaten there for 10 years,  and all their food and service used to be the best.   But now they seem to be serving crap.  And I'm here to find out what the hell happened.  New management maybe? 

So it's one of those passive-aggressive you-care-but-can't-express-it-right-so-you-have-to-make-other-people-feel-bad sort of deals?

Look, it's one thing to provide constructive criticism. That's stuff they can use. "I didn't like the way the maps were reused. I didn't like the way that the repeated waves of spawning enemies made combat tiresome. I didn't like the way the story rolled out at the end. I didn't like the way I couldn't talk to my companions whenever." That's constructive.

"This game is a steaming pile of crap. It's like you served me a totally uncooked meal and spat in my eye and kicked my puppy schmooples, and I hate it, and everyone else on the internet thinks so too. It's garbage, you all suck, you've screwed me for the last time, and I am going to tell all my friends never to buy this again. Anyone who likes this game sucks." That's... not really helping anyone make the game better. That's just throwing a tantrum.

I understand the need to vent, but there's really better outlets for it. Throwing a tantrum is invariably a wasted effort. It won't make the devs more sympathetic, and it dilutes the real constructive criticism you may actually have.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 04 mai 2011 - 04:53 .

[Mad-Max90]

Dude at this point, I think we bought the right to whine, you may not think so but it seems like a lot of people do, so please when someone feels so passionately about something it becomes hard not to whine, but if the argument is valid it should not be overlooked because of the way it was addressed.

[Yrkoon]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...



  Or maybe I really care about the Resteraunt?    The thing is, I used to LOVE the restauraint.  I've eaten there for 10 years,  and all their food and service used to be the best.   But now they seem to be serving crap.  And I'm here to find out what the hell happened.  New management maybe? 

So it's one of those passive-aggressive you care but can't express it right, so you have to make other people feel bad sort of deals?

If criticizing the establishment makes these  'other people' feel bad, then I'd say  these 'other people' have   really thin skin and very feeble convictions.    But hey,   I'll at least be civil.  You won't see me tossing out silly insults like  "you're a Sadist!"  or whatever.  I'll leave that nonsense to  "other People"

Look, it's one thing to provide constructive criticism. That's stuff they can use. "I didn't like the way the maps were reused. I didn't like the way that the repeated waves of spawning enemies made combat tiresome. I didn't like the way the story rolled out at the end. I didn't like the way I couldn't talk to my companions whenever." That's constructive.[


"This game is a steaming pile of crap. It's like you served me a totally uncooked meal and spat in my eye and kicked my puppy schmooples, and I hate it, and everyone else on the internet thinks so too. It's garbage, you all suck, you've screwed me for the last time, and I am going to tell all my friends never to buy this again. Anyone who likes this game sucks." That's... not really helping anyone make the game better. That's just throwing a tantrum.

I understand the need to vent, but there's really better outlets for it. Throwing a tantrum is invariably a wasted effort. It won't make the devs more sympathetic, and it dilutes the real constructive criticism you may actually have.

Begging your pardon? Who died and made you the Restaurant owner again?  It's not up to hoorayforicecream to decide what we discuss and what we don't discuss in here.   Sheesh. 


  Oh, but  hey, You're certainly free to leave if you think  this restaurant's air is too  hot and smoke-filled  for your lungs.  I'll  be stick around, though.  So...

Modifié par Yrkoon, 04 mai 2011 - 05:11 .

[Zanallen]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Dude at this point, I think we bought the right to whine, you may not think so but it seems like a lot of people do, so please when someone feels so passionately about something it becomes hard not to whine, but if the argument is valid it should not be overlooked because of the way it was addressed.

Unfortunately for you, the way an argument is presented absolutely effects the way others perceive it. You know who whines about things? Babies. Human beings are conditioned to find the sound of a crying baby absolutely annoying. This leads most mothers to take care of the baby's needs, but leads others to go nuts and kill their kids. People who aren't mothers generally just find a baby's whining annoying as hell. Bioware isn't your mother, so...I wonder how they are taking your whining right now?

[aduellist]

Yrkoon wrote...

Or maybe I really care about the Resteraunt?    The thing is, I used to LOVE the restauraint.  I've eaten there for 10 years,  and all their food and service used to be the best.   But now they seem to be serving crap.  And I'm here to find out what the hell happened.  New management maybe? 

Or, as I have experienced more than once IRL, they changed chefs.  The new chef has a different recipe for your erstwhile favorite dish.  You order your favorite and get...something else.  It's not horrible or inedible, just not as tasty or fulfilling.  The ingredients have changed.  You leave with a feeling of disappointment and regret, perhaps never to visit that particular restaurant again.  And you are certainly going to tell your friends who also patronise that establishment that you feel it has changed for the worse.

[erynnar]

Zanallen wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Dude at this point, I think we bought the right to whine, you may not think so but it seems like a lot of people do, so please when someone feels so passionately about something it becomes hard not to whine, but if the argument is valid it should not be overlooked because of the way it was addressed.

Unfortunately for you, the way an argument is presented absolutely effects the way others perceive it. You know who whines about things? Babies. Human beings are conditioned to find the sound of a crying baby absolutely annoying. This leads most mothers to take care of the baby's needs, but leads others to go nuts and kill their kids. People who aren't mothers generally just find a baby's whining annoying as hell. Bioware isn't your mother, so...I wonder how they are taking your whining right now?

And the whining about others' whining is just as annoying and babyish. There are positive threads, I was just on one. If the whining as you call it is not to your liking, then why are you reading this thread? Something about it must appeal to you all who keep on harping on others' harping.