380 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

So what? That's what multiple playthroughs are for, aren't they?

And for people who don't have the original game? When DA3 comes out, people new to the series would have to play DA:O and II in order to create a save for transferring over. Then, if they wanted to see the other content only available with a particular save, they would have to replay DA:O and II again.

And, as I said before, as the games continue on and the choices compile, Bioware will need to spend more time ensuring that the choices matter in each game. Which creates more instances of content only available with certain choices. This makes it more expensive in the long run to develope the games.

[Dragoonlordz]

Zanallen wrote...

The question is not how they are important within the game, the question is how important they are when trransfered over. You get...A cameo and two rather weak sidequests. Awesome. Bioware could have expanded on what those choices meant to the world as a whole, but then they run the risk of creating content that few people see or spending resources to double up game portions that can only be accessed with different saves instead of putting content in the base game.

It's not just how important those changes are only in the game but the effect it has on the world of which all future games in a series is based off. Just because something for example was not imported into DA2 or specifically having a major effect in DA2, doesn't mean it won't have a massive effect in DA3.

"game portions that can only be accessed with different saves"

That is what most people want... Replayability/Value for money for all titles within a series. It is not a negative thing it is a positive. Just like most people rushed back to DAO to create new characters and make different choices to see what effect it would have in DA2 (which was a bit of a let down tbh, Bioware did a bad job on that much like Bioware did with ME2 but hope to put right with ME3, one only hopes they put it right in DA3 much like ME3). Though I sometimes wonder if DA got the B team and ME kept the A team quality wise (just sometimes crosses my mind...)

They could of handled the import better true, much like ME>ME2 which many people was far from happy about but according to what I have read they have decided that the choices from both ME1 and 2 will have a much larger effect on ME3 which makes up for the poor job done with ME2 imports.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mai 2011 - 08:08 .

[Elhanan]

Zanallen wrote...

The question is not how they are important within the game, the question is how important they are when trransfered over. You get...A cameo and two rather weak sidequests. Awesome. Bioware could have expanded on what those choices meant to the world as a whole, but then they run the risk of creating content that few people see or spending resources to double up game portions that can only be accessed with different saves instead of putting content in the base game.

One seems to get a few cameos, and a few sidequests depending on the saved choices made. In replays, I am able to notice changes because of varied Wardens used and preloaded.

As for importance. perhaps not to some, but one does not have to venture to far on these forums to see that such choices are very important to others.

Me? Used to playing RPG's w/o any choice. Perhaps this is one reason I enjoyed DAO so much, as decisions did matter and were not always easy. But going back to a few story related decisions was not hard to take, as I still had plenty of indv choices as far as the character and personality, at least for me.

[bti79]

Zanallen wrote...

The question is not how they are important within the game, the question is how important they are when trransfered over. You get...A cameo and two rather weak sidequests. Awesome. Bioware could have expanded on what those choices meant to the world as a whole, but then they run the risk of creating content that few people see or spending resources to double up game portions that can only be accessed with different saves instead of putting content in the base game.

and that's the blessing and curse of creating a true sequel. I'd say let democracy rule - what do people care about and want to see again.

Bioware left their fans were left hanging on the edge of their chair by the ending of Witch Hunt, and then doesn't even recognize the single WH choice in DA2? 

Ofcourse devs would not wrap up things in WH .. there is so much more storytelling potential in that story, and a fair fan base (= market) for it. Therefore it is rediculess that theydid not follow up.

It's a huge selling point for the franchise. To recognize the popular crarry overs doesn't mean they should create hours of content for every small choice that only very few people would see and care about. 

It's not "all or nothing"

Modifié par bti79, 04 mai 2011 - 08:07 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Zanallen wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

So what? That's what multiple playthroughs are for, aren't they?

And for people who don't have the original game? When DA3 comes out, people new to the series would have to play DA:O and II in order to create a save for transferring over. Then, if they wanted to see the other content only available with a particular save, they would have to replay DA:O and II again.

And, as I said before, as the games continue on and the choices compile, Bioware will need to spend more time ensuring that the choices matter in each game. Which creates more instances of content only available with certain choices. This makes it more expensive in the long run to develope the games.

Again thats not the case all new Bioware titles (well ME series and most likley DA will follow if is a DA3), they package it with an interactive comic now that I think lasts about 15-30 mins long where make choices prior to starting instead of forcing everyone to buy a copy of the original title. However even without that if a person likes a title or sequel and does not own the original this import feature will promote the idea of picking up a copy of a previous title benefitting Bioware and themselves in playing quality game aka ME1, ME2 and DAO.

[Zanallen]

Elhanan wrote...

One seems to get a few cameos, and a few sidequests depending on the saved choices made. In replays, I am able to notice changes because of varied Wardens used and preloaded.

As for importance. perhaps not to some, but one does not have to venture to far on these forums to see that such choices are very important to others.

Me? Used to playing RPG's w/o any choice. Perhaps this is one reason I enjoyed DAO so much, as decisions did matter and were not always easy. But going back to a few story related decisions was not hard to take, as I still had plenty of indv choices as far as the character and personality, at least for me.

But what I'm suggesting is that, if Bioware got rid of the need to add weak sidequests and cameos using the save transfer feature, they could expand the choices within the game itself. Imagine if making a choice actually had a valid impact on the rest of the game. For example, in Radiata Stories, halfway through the game or so you have the option of choosing to side with either the humans or nonhumans. The second half plays completely differently depending on your choice. Different recruitable companions come into play along with different bosses and fight strategies. That is choice.

[Zanallen]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Again thats not the case all new Bioware titles (well ME series and most likley DA will follow if is a DA3), they package it with an interactive comic now that I think lasts about 15-30 mins long where make choices prior to starting instead of forcing everyone to buy a copy of the original title. However even without that if a person likes a title or sequel and does not own the original this import feature will promote the idea of picking up a copy of a previous title benefitting Bioware and themselves in playing quality game aka ME1, ME2 and DAO.

The comic affects major plot decisions and was included in ME 2 because ME 1 isn't available on the PS3. You do not get access to minor cameos and miss out on a number of sidequests. Less content because you don't have a save file. How is that good?

[bti79]

Zanallen wrote...

But what I'm suggesting is that, if Bioware got rid of the need to add weak sidequests and cameos using the save transfer feature, they could expand the choices within the game itself. Imagine if making a choice actually had a valid impact on the rest of the game. For example, in Radiata Stories, halfway through the game or so you have the option of choosing to side with either the humans or nonhumans. The second half plays completely differently depending on your choice. Different recruitable companions come into play along with different bosses and fight strategies. That is choice.

Then the games would have to be extremely long, to the point where we'd all get tired of even the best written chracters. Do you think al the Origins characters stories are over and done with? For me some are (like Wynne and Ogden).. others felt like they were just barely beginning. (Morrigan and Alistair) 

[Dragoonlordz]

Zanallen wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

One seems to get a few cameos, and a few sidequests depending on the saved choices made. In replays, I am able to notice changes because of varied Wardens used and preloaded.

As for importance. perhaps not to some, but one does not have to venture to far on these forums to see that such choices are very important to others.

Me? Used to playing RPG's w/o any choice. Perhaps this is one reason I enjoyed DAO so much, as decisions did matter and were not always easy. But going back to a few story related decisions was not hard to take, as I still had plenty of indv choices as far as the character and personality, at least for me.

But what I'm suggesting is that, if Bioware got rid of the need to add weak sidequests and cameos using the save transfer feature, they could expand the choices within the game itself. Imagine if making a choice actually had a valid impact on the rest of the game. For example, in Radiata Stories, halfway through the game or so you have the option of choosing to side with either the humans or nonhumans. The second half plays completely differently depending on your choice. Different recruitable companions come into play along with different bosses and fight strategies. That is choice.

There is nothing stopping them doing that even with imports as they are now (or supposed to be). They can still converge the imports and at some point further down have such a massive choice that effects the rest of game and export that new situation and more choices to the next game. It just means different choices will carry over from the end.

[Dragoonlordz]

Zanallen wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Again thats not the case all new Bioware titles (well ME series and most likley DA will follow if is a DA3), they package it with an interactive comic now that I think lasts about 15-30 mins long where make choices prior to starting instead of forcing everyone to buy a copy of the original title. However even without that if a person likes a title or sequel and does not own the original this import feature will promote the idea of picking up a copy of a previous title benefitting Bioware and themselves in playing quality game aka ME1, ME2 and DAO.

The comic affects major plot decisions and was included in ME 2 because ME 1 isn't available on the PS3. You do not get access to minor cameos and miss out on a number of sidequests. Less content because you don't have a save file. How is that good?

It's better than nothing. Therefore it's good, could it have been better "Yes" personally I would pick up a copy of ME1 today if they were legally allowed to release it on PS3 (I already own it on 360 but just for the imports I would buy it again along with ME2+3 all at same time for PS3 if I could get ME1 on PS3) but having a comic which is the only way they could do it, I accept as good enough. This isnt the same problem with DA series as that is on all systems, also ME3 will have the same type import creation comic I believe though since every system has ME2 it isn't needed.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mai 2011 - 08:23 .

[Zanallen]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

There is nothing stopping them doing that even with imports as they are now (or supposed to be). They can still converge the imports and at some point further down have such a massive choice that effects the rest of game and export that new situation and more choices to the next game. It just means different choices will carry over from the end.

But they don't do it and they haven't done it. I don't think they really can at this point.

[Dragoonlordz]

DA isn't a trilogy like ME though, they can still do such a thing further down the line.

Whether they do or not I wouldn't know. My 'Magic 8 Ball' isn't that powerfull.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mai 2011 - 08:27 .

[Mad-Max90]

Bioware stories are not the best game plots and stories in video gaming. As stories alone they are pretty good but there are much better stories in games. The big selling point for Bioware and it's biggest quality is the choice/consequence cuase/effect system they use. That is what makes them special and that is what makes their stories great instead of good or above average. The import and export of choices and effects on the plot and world is if anything one of if not the biggest selling point Bioware has in it's arsenal.

While I agree with some of your ideas, I disagree with story, because believe it or not, what they did with the Mass Effect game is make a game that rivals the star wars movies

[Gotholhorakh]

Yxunomei wrote...


 Most of us loved Origins and Awakening..Bioware made another Epic game on a different setting (thedas) mind you apart from the forgotten realms which the community greatly accepted. I am getting tired of people whinning and complaining about why DA:2 is a complete bust etc., I am one of many that got really frustrated about the release of 1.01 patch for the xbox 360, but guys BIoware did delivered story-wise.  

Hang on... are you whining about people whining?

I was going to whine at you about that, but then I realised that someone might whine about me whining about you whining about other people whining, which in turn could lead to other people turning up and whining about them whining about me whining about you whining about other people whining, and then what if the people you were whining about in the first place show up and whine more, which in turn means you have to escalate to a more protracted whine...


...and frankly I'm worried that such depths of recursion might threaten the very fabric of the universe itself.

So while I don't feel your sentiment that other people should shut up if they don't agree with you is entirely constructive, I'm going to go right ahead and let you express it without, you know, whining about it.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 04 mai 2011 - 08:37 .

[Zanallen]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

DA isn't a trilogy like ME though, they can still do such a thing further down the line.

Whether they do or not I wouldn't know. My 'Magic 8 Ball' isn't that powerfull.

So you think they'll start adding in bigger choices later in the series after there is already a bunch of stuff to track? Well, I doubt that, but keep hoping. Either way, I've been arguing for a few hours now I am tired of it. Plus, it seems like I am in the minority here and I am not going to argue against a good 3-4 people. So...Whatever. We'll see how ME3 turns out, I guess.

[Rockpopple]

I think the pre-packaged histories in DA II served the same purpose as ME 2's "interactive comic" (Which wasn't an interactive comic as much as it was a diluted 'choose your own adventure. I have ME 2 for the PS3. All that comic was a really compacted re-telling of the story with about 4 or so choices to choose from. Could have been done better, imo)

In fact, I think the pre-packeged histories in DA II could have benefited from a couple more histories to choose from but overall, they weren't bad. I ended up seeing some things from choices made in those pre-packeged histories that I probably never would have seen otherwise.

[Dragoonlordz]

Mad-Max90 wrote...
While I agree with some of your ideas, I disagree with story, because believe it or not, what they did with the Mass Effect game is make a game that rivals the star wars movies

It's personal tastes, just like some people like Star Wars while others like Star Trek or both, I personally think they did a good enough job story wise with Mass Effect but it was not on the same level as Star Wars. I would go further and say I liked Star Ocean series storyline as much as Mass Effect but neither are the pinnacle of story in general for me relating to video games. I prefer RDR story to Mass Effect, like I said personal tastes.

[Elhanan]

Zanallen wrote...


But what I'm suggesting is that, if Bioware got rid of the need to add weak sidequests and cameos using the save transfer feature, they could expand the choices within the game itself. Imagine if making a choice actually had a valid impact on the rest of the game. For example, in Radiata Stories, halfway through the game or so you have the option of choosing to side with either the humans or nonhumans. The second half plays completely differently depending on your choice. Different recruitable companions come into play along with different bosses and fight strategies. That is choice.

Ah; well, I do not require it as I mentioned. While having major Choice issues within DAO was fun, so was making some of the minor Choices seen in DA2. Some complain of fighting two sides despite Choice; I relish it, and have to chuckle at the notion that many Powergamers would have worked the same results for the added XP anyway.

I am for ridding the game of the less humor-filled sidequests; keep all cameos, though.

[happy_daiz]

Did everyone play DA2 based on a DAO/DAA import?

My first 3 playthroughs were from scratch, without a DAO import. I had stupidly saved all of my DAO pts on my husband's XBox Live profile, and now that I have my own Live profile, I want my stuff in the same place. So...recognizing that there was probably a difference between a canned Warden ending and a real DAO import, I decided to start and finish a couple pts of DAO, so I could use them in DA2. It was excellent timing, since I was waiting for the DA2 patch anyway.

Skipping forward a couple of weeks to now, I am in Act 3 of my 4th playthrough of DA2, and I'm noticing LOTS of references to choices I made in DAO, and I'm astounded. Maybe it's because I started DA2 with a clean slate, but I'm noticing easter eggs that were not there before. I love hearing little specific bits about my Warden that I didn't get to hear before. You could say that this has made an impact on my appreciation of this game.

So I'm wondering...if people had played without an import, then played with an import, would it have made a difference in their opinion of the game, like it did for me?

Modifié par happy_daiz, 04 mai 2011 - 09:57 .

[Mad-Max90]

By star wars I meant the crappy episodes 1-3, not the epic that is 4-6

[Nightwriter]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Bioware stories are not the best game plots and stories in video gaming. As stories alone they are pretty good but there are much better stories in games. The big selling point for Bioware and it's biggest quality is the choice/consequence cuase/effect system they use. That is what makes them special and that is what makes their stories great instead of good or above average. The import and export of choices and effects on the plot and world is if anything one of if not the biggest selling point Bioware has in it's arsenal.

That, and their characters and character relationships.

[Dragoonlordz]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

By star wars I meant the crappy episodes 1-3, not the epic that is 4-6

 Jar Jar Binks... Seriously WTF is that about... I hate the (pre) episodes that came out after the originals and went back in time prior to them. George Luca$ showed his true colours with those.

[Dragoonlordz]

Nightwriter wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bioware stories are not the best game plots and stories in video gaming. As stories alone they are pretty good but there are much better stories in games. The big selling point for Bioware and it's biggest quality is the choice/consequence cuase/effect system they use. That is what makes them special and that is what makes their stories great instead of good or above average. The import and export of choices and effects on the plot and world is if anything one of if not the biggest selling point Bioware has in it's arsenal.

That, and their characters and character relationships.

Fixed.

http://social.biowar...4824/14#7295889

Mad was quoting me but forgot the quotes.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mai 2011 - 11:33 .

[Tommy6860]

Yrkoon wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...


True, and since you said inverstors, than ME and ME2 were by far the biggest money makers, since they are console to PC ports. It is far faster and cheaper to develop games on console than it is on PC. So, unless Origins overall end profits were more than ME2's even, it really doesn't matter.

You have NO idea how much it cost to make each game.  Don't even pretend that you do.

I didn't say I knew how much it costs, I do know it is much more expensive to develop a game for PC first than it is a console. If you're going to reply in such a way as you have this same insight, please provide it instead of being condescending, it is beneath you considering I never I got that from reading you here before. Console hardware is set in stone, there is no adjusting the development kits along many hardware setups. The graphical dimensions are nearly always made to one degreee on consoles (typically 720p still is by far the most used) while using minor upscaling capabilities. Some console games are even made with what are not true HD resolutions (720p being the minimum threshold for HD graphics), but upscaled and sold as such (note Halo 3, COD:MW, etc). With PC hardware, you have various levels of having to create huge amounts of hi-res grpahics for use on as PC, and that is really only one apsect along with other capabilities to adjust for DX11, CUDA coding, etc. You can churn out games on consoles much faster than you can on PC since the hardware is the same and the graphics coding is the same. Unless the PC version is a port from console, which is nearly the norm anymore, it takes longer to develop. Most console to PC ports are reworked for the functions of mouse and keyboard, update the GUI (or UI in you will) and then modify the graphics fior higher res imaging when porting to PC from console.

Did you not notice this time in the quick turnaround for DA2 from Origins, is that on 2 (as just one aspect), a PC user has to download the hi-res graphics pack for a better expereince. How much time and money you think they saved themselves right there, not having to press that data onto disc for an even faster turnaround, considering that hi-res pack constituted nearly 20% of the total game data already on disc, as just one example?

Modifié par Tommy6860, 05 mai 2011 - 12:01 .