380 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

Tsarapihelas wrote...



People who enjoy actual RPGs hated this.

It'd be more accurate (albeit still a generalization) to say that those who enjoy actual RPGs do not see DA2 as an RPG.

But that's still a big "So what?", because many people who enjoy RPGs also happen to enjoy other genres of video games.

Me though, I really couldn't care less whether or not DA2 is an RPG.  It still sucks, for reasons that have nothing to do with its genre.

[TheBlackBaron]

Tsarapihelas wrote...

It's an action adventure game. New kids who enjoyed Mass Effect 2 enjoyed this.

People who enjoy actual RPGs hated this. Why are we still talking about this?

So what if I enjoyed Mass Effect 2 more than Mass Effect 1 but Dragon Age: Origins more than Dragon Age 2?

[Sussurus]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Tsarapihelas wrote...

It's an action adventure game. New kids who enjoyed Mass Effect 2 enjoyed this.

People who enjoy actual RPGs hated this. Why are we still talking about this?

So what if I enjoyed Mass Effect 2 more than Mass Effect 1 but Dragon Age: Origins more than Dragon Age 2?

Yes, good question.. seconded the motion.

[neppakyo]

Sussurus wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Tsarapihelas wrote...

It's an action adventure game. New kids who enjoyed Mass Effect 2 enjoyed this.

People who enjoy actual RPGs hated this. Why are we still talking about this?

So what if I enjoyed Mass Effect 2 more than Mass Effect 1 but Dragon Age: Origins more than Dragon Age 2?

Yes, good question.. seconded the motion.

I enjoyed both ME1 and ME2, maybe ME2 a bit mroe.

Definitly prefer DA:O over DA2. 10x more.

[Persephone]

Tsarapihelas wrote...

It's an action adventure game. New kids who enjoyed Mass Effect 2 enjoyed this.

People who enjoy actual RPGs hated this. Why are we still talking about this?

You must know a whole looooooooooot of people.

Just fyi, I've been playing RPGs for almost 20 years. Everything from the Might and Magic series to TES, PST, The Witcher, BG&BG2, Drakensang, DAO etc. I even LARP and do P&P.

Loved ME2 AND DAII.

But clearly, I'm not people. Or enjoy "actual RPGs".

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

Wow, I disagree immensely.

First off, nudity violence and profanity, in and of themselves, are nether mature or immature.  It's how they're used/incorporated into a medium that  determines whether they're mature or immature.

As a rule; agreed. But I amost always loathe profanity; prefer 'nug droppings' and such to out-right swearing, as it aids the setting.

And that said, when  done right,  they're all great, and they matter.  They add both realism and beleivability in a video game.

And as a rule, I do not seek out games that include nudity and excess violence (no need), so my examples of this done well within the medium are quite limited. For myself in a game, they are far from great.

I prefer maturity that found in the storylines. Finding the Broodmother in DAO and all that entailed was gripping, chilling, and thought provoking. This is a prime example of mature material, and something not meant for children.

For me the questions become: When such is not included, is it missed? Was it required? Would it enhance the story? My experience is quite restricted, but most of the time the answer seems to be negative.

Modifié par Elhanan, 01 mai 2011 - 11:13 .

[orpheus333]

Persephone wrote...

Tsarapihelas wrote...

It's an action adventure game. New kids who enjoyed Mass Effect 2 enjoyed this.

People who enjoy actual RPGs hated this. Why are we still talking about this?

You must know a whole looooooooooot of people.

Just fyi, I've been playing RPGs for almost 20 years. Everything from the Might and Magic series to TES, PST, The Witcher, BG&BG2, Drakensang, DAO etc. I even LARP and do P&P.

Loved ME2 AND DAII.

But clearly, I'm not people. Or enjoy "actual RPGs".

What system do you run your P&P on i've tried putting character sheets into my CD tray. Throwing dice at my monitor hell i've even read the rules books into a microphone i just can't get the damn game to load. 

[Statulos]

Persephone wrote...

Tsarapihelas wrote...

It's an action adventure game. New kids who enjoyed Mass Effect 2 enjoyed this.

People who enjoy actual RPGs hated this. Why are we still talking about this?

You must know a whole looooooooooot of people.

Just fyi, I've been playing RPGs for almost 20 years. Everything from the Might and Magic series to TES, PST, The Witcher, BG&BG2, Drakensang, DAO etc. I even LARP and do P&P.

Loved ME2 AND DAII.

But clearly, I'm not people. Or enjoy "actual RPGs".

And here´s where I use your post for blatant propaganda: why does Bioware not try to get a license for Midnight and create a game out of that setting?

[element eater]

Elhanan wrote...
I prefer maturity that found in the storylines. Finding the Broodmother in DAO and all that entailed was gripping, chilling, and thought provoking. This is a prime example of mature material, and something not meant for children.

For me the questions become: When such is not included, is it missed? Was it required? Would it enhance the story? My experience is quite restricted, but most of the time the answer seems to be negative.

well to be honest i generaly agree with what you said earliar but i would say in certain situations it is required a story can be dark and mature but some times it does need swearing nudity or violence to contribute to this other wise it wont meet its own goals. An extremely emotional moment for example wouldnt quit be the same if the character simply used mild language or and ogrhen style insult to convey his feelings.

Nudity is probably the hardest to do well but again it adds alot if done well. look at mass effects sex scenes the very mild nudity adds alot to it makes the scene much more human and poiniant on the other hand you have the DAO dry humping scenes which contain absolutely no nudity. Do these achieve the same effect? No, ofcourse they dont, they take what should be quite a significant moment of the game and make it boarder line comical. What should be a mature moment hear is made almost imature by the games reluctance to to go one step further.

Again Violence while not a a requirment for mature to story telling or games is sometime needed. To this extent its interesting how you describe the brood mother scene as an example of mature story telling; but this sequence conjures pretty violent images if i remember correctly arent the female captives forced to eat flesh of other captives or darkspawn just because you never actualy see this doesnt mean that the use violence doesnt contribute to the effectiveness of the scene.

Modifié par element eater, 02 mai 2011 - 12:18 .

[Yrkoon]

element eater wrote...


Again Violence while not a a requirment for mature to story telling or games is sometime needed. To this extent its interesting how you describe the brood mother scene as an example of mature story telling; but this sequence conjures pretty violent images if i remember correctly arent the female captives forced to eat flesh of other captives or darkspawn just because you never actualy see this doesnt mean that the use violence doesnt contribute to the effectiveness of the scene.

Not only that, but, ironically, the Brood Mother is....nude.  And it's an exagerated nudity too  (she's got 8 bare  ******  lol)

Again, well orchestrated Violence, Nudity and Swearing  add tons to a dark, mature  story.    More than  most people even realize.     One does NOT get the same sense of drama and epicness when we see darkspawn  and the king's soldiers doing battle sans any blood and gore (for example), and as you point out, a good, touching romance scene loses *so much* when the players are wearing all their clothes and 'dry humping'.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 mai 2011 - 01:26 .

[element eater]

Yrkoon wrote...

Not only that, but, ironically, the Brood Mother is....nude.  And it's an exagerated nudity too  (she's got 8 bare  ******  lol)
.

brilliant point right there lol

[erynnar]

neppakyo wrote...

erynnar wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Which version of bladerunner, erynnar?

And I agree with him as well. Dunno why sex and such is such a 'taboo' down in the states. People in Europe seem to handle it well, up here in Canada, where I am living (meaning the town and people etc), it isn't that big of a deal.

Pfffft! You have to ask? Director's Cut of course...oh, oops no flame wars please! Don't get this link locked because of me!

UGH don't get me started on Americans and our immature stupidity over nudity and sex. I lived in Europe and I much prefer their adult way of handling both topics. Americans as a culture tend to ack like a bunch of thirteen year olds having wet dreams and sex fantasies while prentending it isn't happening and we aren't growing up.

Directors cut? Really? Seriously? Pfft! (just joking lol, I like the DC best)

The only problem I have with nudity is hiding a boner if im wearing swimming trunks.

Yeah I don't envy you men with regards to that. Though a popular German TV show had a cute episode talking about how to hide one:lol:.  We couldn't have that here in a America.

[erynnar]

element eater wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Not only that, but, ironically, the Brood Mother is....nude.  And it's an exagerated nudity too  (she's got 8 bare  ******  lol)
.

brilliant point right there lol

And she plays with them...um...ew. Not because of the naked boob..erm boobs, or the action, but ew to whose doing it. ROFL! *shudder*

[Elhanan]

erynnar wrote...

element eater wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Not only that, but, ironically, the Brood Mother is....nude.  And it's an exagerated nudity too  (she's got 8 bare  ******  lol)
.

brilliant point right there lol

And she plays with them...um...ew. Not because of the naked boob..erm boobs, or the action, but ew to whose doing it. ROFL! *shudder*

Knew this was going to used against me, but what was more horrifying: the Broodmother herself, or the speech and revelation leading up to her?

For myself, she could have been just a quivering Jello mold, as the tale is what disturbed me.

[Cutlass Jack]

erynnar wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

The only problem I have with nudity is hiding a boner if im wearing swimming trunks.

Yeah I don't envy you men with regards to that. Though a popular German TV show had a cute episode talking about how to hide one:lol:.  We couldn't have that here in a America.

That's why the maker invented Shrinkage.

[aduellist]

erynnar wrote...

And she plays with them...um...ew. Not because of the naked boob..erm boobs, or the action, but ew to whose doing it. ROFL! *shudder*

This one's for you:

www.cad-comic.com/cad/20091012

[erynnar]

Elhanan wrote...

erynnar wrote...

element eater wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Not only that, but, ironically, the Brood Mother is....nude.  And it's an exagerated nudity too  (she's got 8 bare  ******  lol)
.

brilliant point right there lol

And she plays with them...um...ew. Not because of the naked boob..erm boobs, or the action, but ew to whose doing it. ROFL! *shudder*

Knew this was going to used against me, but what was more horrifying: the Broodmother herself, or the speech and revelation leading up to her?

For myself, she could have been just a quivering Jello mold, as the tale is what disturbed me.

Oh without a doubt, I am still creeped out by the build up to her! I was teasin' ya. But yeah, the friggin' poem and creepy meat infused halls. I love and hate that part of the Deep Roads. It was done so brilliantly.

[erynnar]

aduellist wrote...

erynnar wrote...

And she plays with them...um...ew. Not because of the naked boob..erm boobs, or the action, but ew to whose doing it. ROFL! *shudder*

This one's for you:

www.cad-comic.com/cad/20091012

OMFG!!! Oh, that made me laugh so hard I am crying!  Oh, well done!

[Addai]

erynnar wrote...
UGH don't get me started on Americans and our immature stupidity over nudity and sex. I lived in Europe and I much prefer their adult way of handling both topics. Americans as a culture tend to ack like a bunch of thirteen year olds having wet dreams and sex fantasies while prentending it isn't happening and we aren't growing up.

Eh.  I don't consider the nudie women on page 12 of a daily newspaper to be all that "mature."  It's just a different standard, and speaking for myself, I prefer a more modest one.  Just letting it all hang out is no indication of maturity.

[Sussurus]

Of note Broodmother in DA:O bad example, Amorphous gigantic beasts with tentacles tend not to be pornographic in content and held to specific laws.

The Mother in DA:A however showed a more human torso and features, that would be an example.
Again howver DA:A had no brothels, no LI or much sexual references.
So the Mother probably cost them the entire quota allowed for the age range.

[Rocambole4]

AlexXIV wrote...

If people hate DA2 then most likely because they loved DA:O. Because they could just 'deal with it' if it wasn't important to them. And for those who are sorry for their money ... not every lesson in life is for free.

And they didn't deliver story wise. Too many holes and nonsense in the story can ruin a story and it does partly so for me. I am someone who doesn't give much about combat. And since the game only consists of combat and story, it is the story I have an issue with.

This.

If DA 2 was a game (first with a new IP) from some unknown dev, it would be a decent game.

Considering it's a Bioware product and follow up to DA:O tough, I expected MUCH more. And that's also true to most who didn't like the game. It's not the worst product ever, it just doesn't deserve the DA brand.

[bti79]

but guys BIoware did delivered story-wise.

Yes and no.

They delivered something very different from DA:O, which was much more in line with previous Bioware RPG titles. Some saw it as a refreshment, others as a disappointment. I belong to the latter group.

Hawke felt too much like a pawn being shoved around than an actual player.Too many of those situations going in entirely the opposite direction as you were trying to accomplish.

DA:O seems entirely different, and stuff seemed to go in whatever direction you were taking them. It gave a feel of control and making a difference, even if it is just smoke and mirrors. DA2 was just not crafted well enough to create that illusion, and that is IMO its cardinal failure.

Eg, Hawke often has dialogue options where he can chose the opinion of wanting to return to Ferelden. Yet he does not.. why not? Either give story content to explain this (romance/sense of duty/whatever) or just plain leave it out.The way it's presented created a vacuum between the possible directions you are presented with as player and where the game actually takes you.

I'm not saying you were free in DA:O to do whatever - you could hardly go side with the Archdemon or something silly. Maybe it's just because I liked the story that everything it made sense on a whole other level than DA2.

Modifié par bti79, 02 mai 2011 - 05:28 .

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

element eater wrote...


Again Violence while not a a requirment for mature to story telling or games is sometime needed. To this extent its interesting how you describe the brood mother scene as an example of mature story telling; but this sequence conjures pretty violent images if i remember correctly arent the female captives forced to eat flesh of other captives or darkspawn just because you never actualy see this doesnt mean that the use violence doesnt contribute to the effectiveness of the scene.

Not only that, but, ironically, the Brood Mother is....nude.  And it's an exagerated nudity too  (she's got 8 bare  ******  lol)

Again, well orchestrated Violence, Nudity and Swearing  add tons to a dark, mature  story.    More than  most people even realize.     One does NOT get the same sense of drama and epicness when we see darkspawn  and the king's soldiers doing battle sans any blood and gore (for example), and as you point out, a good, touching romance scene loses *so much* when the players are wearing all their clothes and 'dry humping'.

As I have recently used this clip, it shows a much better usage than the vest array of scenes shown currently:

http://www.dailymoti...inia_shortfilms

This is a far superior love scene to most, IMO.

[Sabriana]

Sussurus wrote...

Of note Broodmother in DA:O bad example, Amorphous gigantic beasts with tentacles tend not to be pornographic in content and held to specific laws.

The Mother in DA:A however showed a more human torso and features, that would be an example.
Again howver DA:A had no brothels, no LI or much sexual references.
So the Mother probably cost them the entire quota allowed for the age range.

Heh, you could very well be right.

The broodmother bothered me a lot. The impact was incredible, especially because I'm female. I had to pause the game and gather my wits, because I was so very spooked.

Yes. I admit it. I loved the Deep Roads. I still do. The first time I played them, I pulled an all-nighter without even realising it. Now I take a break from them by heading back to Orzammar and the surface. It's easy to RPG that, because the Deep Roads are also deeply disturbing. But the first time around, I could not tear away.