73 réponses à ce sujet

[JnEricsonx]

Ok, now that that bad joke's out of the way, it was kind of suprising when after The Long Road Aveline kissed my Femhawke in thanks for helping her.  New line I hadn't heard her say before: "I was mute, now I want to sing."  My Hawke's response: "maker, please don't."

[Suron]

it's because Aveline is the only decent female in the game. And of course you can't romance her.

[Porenferser]

I agree, you should have been able to romance her, Aveline is just great.

Merrill is too naive and too stupid, besides I find her ugly.
Isabella is a ****. And a liar too.

[FedericoV]

Aveline is the best charachter in the game and I would even say that it's the best charachter of the franchise so far. I don't really understand all the hate/dismissive judgements toward her. She has the best companion quest and some of the best dialogue lines.

She seems the only charachter that do not depend on Hawke to define herself. Infact, she is the only charachter I felt some form of comraderie for. And I think that the fact that she wasn't romancable helped to define the charachter in a good way.

Modifié par FedericoV, 30 avril 2011 - 10:39 .

[Maladismal]

FedericoV wrote...

Aveline is the best charachter in the game and I would even say that it's the best charachter of the franchise so far. I don't really understand all the hate/dismissive judgements toward her. She has the best companion quest and some of the best dialogue lines.

She seems the only charachter that do not depend on Hawke to define herself. Infact, she is the only charachter I felt some form of comraderie for. And I think that the fact that she wasn't romancable helped to define the charachter in a good way.

I like aveline. I think she is a strong character and well written. My problem with her is she's boring.

She's a guardsmen. Thats essentially the end of her aspiration.

Merril wants to restore an ancient peice of magical history and who knows what comes with it.
Isabella wants to return to sail the free sea's and go where the winds take her.
Varric wants luxory, fun, fame and all the adventures and comfort that come with it.
Anders wants(and does) to start a revolution advocating Mage rights and freedoms.
Sebastain wants to retake his home city state of Starkhaven from Usurpers.

So you see she's kind of boring because she has nothing else going for her other then she's a good guardsmen.

And eh, who uses Hawke to define themself? I'd say they all make their own choices by and large.

She also should let her hair down. She'd be more attractive if she used her hair to frame her chin a bit better.

[whykikyouwhy]

JnEricsonx wrote...

Ok, now that that bad joke's out of the way, it was kind of suprising when after The Long Road Aveline kissed my Femhawke in thanks for helping her.  New line I hadn't heard her say before: "I was mute, now I want to sing."  My Hawke's response: "maker, please don't."

I am a bit envious. I didn't have that little finale in my playthroughs, although maybe I'll get it this go-round.

Maladismal wrote...

I like aveline. I think she is a strong character and well written. My problem with her is she's boring.

She's a guardsmen. Thats essentially the end of her aspiration.

Merril wants to restore an ancient peice of magical history and who knows what comes with it.
Isabella wants to return to sail the free sea's and go where the winds take her.
Varric wants luxory, fun, fame and all the adventures and comfort that come with it.
Anders wants(and does) to start a revolution advocating Mage rights and freedoms.
Sebastain wants to retake his home city state of Starkhaven from Usurpers.

So you see she's kind of boring because she has nothing else going for her other then she's a good guardsmen.

And eh, who uses Hawke to define themself? I'd say they all make their own choices by and large.

She also should let her hair down. She'd be more attractive if she used her hair to frame her chin a bit better.

I personally don't find her boring. I think there is a lot about her that she keeps hidden. She's very private (based on some of her banter with Isabela or even Bethany), so her true aspirations aren't revealed right away. I think she is interested more in defining herself, or rather, feeling good about who she is and what she does than in any concrete/material ambitions. Her arc, while not involving any sort of vendetta or magical relic, does show a lot of character development, and so for that growth and the sheer joy of enjoying a good story, I didn't see her as dull at all.

She's just quite the commanding figure. With or without her hair down. I think she saves the unraveling of the reddish mane for private times.

[FedericoV]

I would like to ask to Gaider (he wrote Aveline afaik) if Aveline was somewhat inspired by Brienne of Tarth. I loved that charachter in ASoIaF and I found some similiarities between the two and maybe that's the reason why I loved her so much.

[whykikyouwhy]

FedericoV wrote...

I would like to ask to Gaider (he wrote Aveline afaik) if Aveline was somewhat inspired by Brienne of Tarth. I loved that charachter in ASoIaF and I found some similiarities between the two and maybe that's the reason why I loved her so much.

Not to inject spoilers, but hopefully, should Aveline's story continue past DAII, she'll have a better time of things than Brienne.

[Oneiropolos]

Aveline is brave and noble, as well the most 'normal' of the companions. The issue with people who find her boring is that they generally think that in their situation they could be as strong/as noble/as brave as she is. The woman fought at Ostogar, describing Loghain's moment of betrayal as "Hope met with... nothing". Almost immediately afterwards, Wesley is on his way to meet her... and the Darkspawn run into her and her husband. He contracts the blight and has to be killed. She does bring him up a couple times, but I never felt she was weak in doing so. It's a natural pain for her. But at the same time, she gathers her courage up and four years later (1 year of servitude+3 years working her way to Guard Captain) she takes the risk of putting her heart on the line again with Donnic. She shows how horribly vulnerable she is on that quest, which is what makes her human. Aveline even has you spied on and says it's better than her camping out on your doorstep because she looks after her friends. I can see why some may lament not getting to romance her. Still, I thought they did an awesome job in giving Aveline a story that you influence, certainly (such as when she's accused in Act 3 of coddling her men) but she truly stands on her own two feet. Yet, she does so with genuine affection for Hawke.

I don't blame the people who wanted a decent female LI lamenting Aveline's loss, though I sorta lament not having a prayer with Varric. I mean, yeah, female Hawkes have the choice to romance Sebastian as an extra option, but it's even been called 'not really a romance' (which makes me sad. I want a real romance with Sebastian!) but while Merril and Isabella both have major faults that could make someone hesitate in romancing them, at least you don't get through the ENTIRE GAME only to potentially have your LI do something that you may regard as completely reprehensible and have to kill them for it. So those looking for a male LI don't end up that much better unless they're Anti-Chantry and Pro-psychotic mages.

If I had to say, in my opinion, this results in Isabella being the best romance female side in terms of "Not bloody insane" and Fenris on the male side (again, not counting Sebastian in all this). Both of them have giant faults. Aveline and Varric are just there to taunt us with their existence of sane, likable companions. Unfortunately, Aveline seeks out love with a guardsman and Varric has Bianca. One of my favorite lines for Hawke is about trying to keep the shard from Varric that is paraphrased something like, "If you go insane then I would have to kill you and leave Bianca heartbroken." as well as Sebastian's observance that he does not have the special relationship with his bow that the dwarf has with his crossbow. We just have to face facts. The actual sane companions...their love is wrapped up elsewhere.

Modifié par Oneiropolos, 30 avril 2011 - 01:14 .

[FedericoV]

Maladismal wrote...

I like aveline. I think she is a strong character and well written. My problem with her is she's boring.

She's a guardsmen. Thats essentially the end of her aspiration.

The fact that she knows her place and that she just want to estabilish that place in her new life (without "epic" aspiration) was one of the most compelling things for me. I do not found her boring at all. She was the one who allways bring Hawke down to earth and that remembers him what is right and what is wrong. In some way, she is Hawke's moral compass and it was easy to loose track along the way.

So you see she's kind of boring because she has nothing else going for her other then she's a good guardsmen.

And what's boring in being *the guardian*? That's just an archetype, like the other joinable NPCs. I could use the same "dismissive" tecnique for the other charachters. You know, Isabella is "the ****", Varric is "the Ian Solo" and so on. And that would just be unfair. I understand if you do not like her archetype, but there's nothing essentially boring in it.

And eh, who uses Hawke to define themself? I'd say they all make their own choices by and large.

Aveline a strong and defined charachter. Her growth is completely personal and she's mostly self sufficient. She never give me the impression to beg for my help. While I found that the other charachter storyline/growth depend too much on the personality/presence of Hawke and thus seems more like, you know, dolls who whine for my help (maybe with the exception of Anders but I must admit that I have not use him too much and that I do not like him too much in DA2 and I assume that you should romance him to see the whole picture).

But at the end, it's all about personal tastes. I liked most of the cast in DA2. I could argue that there are a lot of missing roleplaying opportunity in their personal stories. But at the end they were on the same level (if not better) than other Bioware's RPG. Aveline started as one of my least favourite charachter but she has really grown on me and at the end of the game, I care more about her than my supposed romance. And I must admit that at the end every point I made is just some sort of rationalization on my part, because why I like her is really subjective and irrational.

Modifié par FedericoV, 30 avril 2011 - 01:41 .

[SirGladiator]

I liked Aveline at first, and she definitely had potential to be interesting, but she never was, and the fact that she isn't romancable is bad, thats true, but whats even worse is the way she just completely ignores your romantic overtures, over and over again, then later asks 'did you ever think about the two of us getting together?', after Hawke has hit on her about half a dozen or more times. So maybe she wasn't incredibly rude all those times, she was just incredibly stupid? Either way she just got more and more annoying as the game went on, I pretty much leave her in her office all the time now, I'd much rather have Isabella, Merrill, Bethany, or Varric along.

[FedericoV]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

I would like to ask to Gaider (he wrote Aveline afaik) if Aveline was somewhat inspired by Brienne of Tarth. I loved that charachter in ASoIaF and I found some similiarities between the two and maybe that's the reason why I loved her so much.

Not to inject spoilers, but hopefully, should Aveline's story continue past DAII, she'll have a better time of things than Brienne.

LOL, I hope so! I also hope that with ADwD coming to the prints, he will let us know how the Brienne's cliffhanger is going to play out at the end. I really loved/hated her last scene in the books. The speculation about "the world" has gone pretty wild in the last five years .

[Maladismal]

Oneiropolos wrote...

Aveline is brave and noble, as well the most 'normal' of the companions. The issue with people who find her boring is that they generally think that in their situation they could be as strong/as noble/as brave as she is. The woman fought at Ostogar, describing Loghain's moment of betrayal as "Hope met with... nothing". Almost immediately afterwards, Wesley is on his way to meet her... and the Darkspawn run into her and her husband. He contracts the blight and has to be killed. She does bring him up a couple times, but I never felt she was weak in doing so. It's a natural pain for her. But at the same time, she gathers her courage up and four years later (1 year of servitude+3 years working her way to Guard Captain) she takes the risk of putting her heart on the line again with Donnic. She shows how horribly vulnerable she is on that quest, which is what makes her human. Aveline even has you spied on and says it's better than her camping out on your doorstep because she looks after her friends. I can see why some may lament not getting to romance her. Still, I thought they did an awesome job in giving Aveline a story that you influence, certainly (such as when she's accused in Act 3 of coddling her men) but she truly stands on her own two feet. Yet, she does so with genuine affection for Hawke.

I don't blame the people who wanted a decent female LI lamenting Aveline's loss, though I sorta lament not having a prayer with Varric. I mean, yeah, female Hawkes have the choice to romance Sebastian as an extra option, but it's even been called 'not really a romance' (which makes me sad. I want a real romance with Sebastian!) but while Merril and Isabella both have major faults that could make someone hesitate in romancing them, at least you don't get through the ENTIRE GAME only to potentially have your LI do something that you may regard as completely reprehensible and have to kill them for it. So those looking for a male LI don't end up that much better unless they're Anti-Chantry and Pro-psychotic mages.

If I had to say, in my opinion, this results in Isabella being the best romance female side in terms of "Not bloody insane" and Fenris on the male side (again, not counting Sebastian in all this). Both of them have giant faults. Aveline and Varric are just there to taunt us with their existence of sane, likable companions. Unfortunately, Aveline seeks out love with a guardsman and Varric has Bianca. One of my favorite lines for Hawke is about trying to keep the shard from Varric that is paraphrased something like, "If you go insane then I would have to kill you and leave Bianca heartbroken." as well as Sebastian's observance that he does not have the special relationship with his bow that the dwarf has with his crossbow. We just have to face facts. The actual sane companions...their love is wrapped up elsewhere.

Isabella and Fenris are worse off by far. Both of them leave you hanging for 3 years. 3 years is a long damn time to keep the heart aflame after they just ditch you, both for respective reasons.

Anders doesn't really love you so much as obesse over you. If he loved you he'd brook no secrets. Love is trust after all. Plus he wouldn't blackmail you with "love" either.

Merril is the only amiable relationship really. Far cry from DA:O where only Morrigan ditches out.

[Cutlass Jack]

The Aveline romance was one of the best quests in the game. (Doubly so if Isabela is along)

It didn't need to be a romance with Hawke. In fact I'm glad it wasn't. The flirt options were also a nice touch. I think more than a few of us might have been in a similar situation at one time or another. Helped drive the whole thing home to me.

[FedericoV]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The Aveline romance was one of the best quests in the game. (Doubly so if Isabela is along)

No. The Long Road is THE best quest in the game. And one of the best in the history of RPG imho. The soundtrack alone was worth my money. If they would have just avoided all those fights along the way, it would have been perfect. One of the reason to play DA2.

Modifié par FedericoV, 30 avril 2011 - 01:41 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Well I didn't want to oversell it.

[Maladismal]

FedericoV wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The Aveline romance was one of the best quests in the game. (Doubly so if Isabela is along)

No. The Long Road is THE best quest in the game. And one of the best in the history of RPG imho. The soundtrack alone was great. If they would have just avoided all those fights along the way, it would have been perfect. One of the reason to play DA2.

I think this is where I'll agree that you're starting to let your bias get in the way hahaha.

Though I will agree one of the best quests in the game. It's a foursome for me. Varric act 2 quest, varric act 3 quest, longest rode, kill the stupid dalish elves, are my favorite quests.

[Sister Helen]

I jumped up and down (literally!) when Aveline kissed my male-Hawke at the end of her quest. I hadn't gotten that scene in any other playthrough. Isn't it great that a game can still have surprises even after you finish it the first time? Thank you, Bioware!

I was disappointed, though, that all the love interests in Dragon Age II were either obsessive or mentally ill or both. I thought Varric and Aveline would have been better options - love that evolves from friendship tends to last the longest and be the sweetest.

[Maladismal]

Sister Helen wrote...

I jumped up and down (literally!) when Aveline kissed my male-Hawke at the end of her quest. I hadn't gotten that scene in any other playthrough. Isn't it great that a game can still have surprises even after you finish it the first time? Thank you, Bioware!

I was disappointed, though, that all the love interests in Dragon Age II were either obsessive or mentally ill or both. I thought Varric and Aveline would have been better options - love that evolves from friendship tends to last the longest and be the sweetest.

Don't see how Merril is exempt from that actually?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I missed the Avs kiss on my first Hawke, and she had a major girlcrush on Aveline (seriously love the way Bioware did that character, kudos to Lukas Kristjanson, who was her writer! Finally someone does a strong female warrior right).

It was my second Hawke, the one who mostly went Aggressive talk and had her on Rivalry who got the kiss. She *also*, er, got a couple of punches later in the game for being a jerkface, which was pretty cool too. XD

The Long Road was definitely my favourite quest, though a close run with Varric's awesome creative liberties in reuniting with his brother...heh heh...

[Cutlass Jack]

Sister Helen wrote...

I was disappointed, though, that all the love interests in Dragon Age II were either obsessive or mentally ill or both.

I was going to make some snarky comment about how that's just like real life, but I think I hear my wife coming. She'd just say something like "I know. Thats why I play video games. To get what I can't get in real life."

(I've learned not to give her straight lines.)

Maladismal wrote...

Don't see how Merril is exempt from that actually?

Exempt? She was the definition of Obsessed.

[Maladismal]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Sister Helen wrote...

I was disappointed, though, that all the love interests in Dragon Age II were either obsessive or mentally ill or both.

I was going to make some snarky comment about how that's just like real life, but I think I hear my wife coming. She'd just say something like "I know. Thats why I play video games. To get what I can't get in real life."

(I've learned not to give her straight lines.)

Maladismal wrote...

Don't see how Merril is exempt from that actually?

Exempt? She was the definition of Obsessed.

True, i suppose I was thinking of it in a terms of relationship obessive.

[FedericoV]

Maladismal wrote...

I think this is where I'll agree that you're starting to let your bias get in the way hahaha.

Though I will agree one of the best quests in the game. It's a foursome for me. Varric act 2 quest, varric act 3 quest, longest rode, kill the stupid dalish elves, are my favorite quests.

LOL. I allready admitted that I'm irrationally biased toward Aveline .

Honestly, while Varric is my second favourite NPC, I do not like his act. 3 personal quest a lot because it was mostly a reboot of his act. 2 quest (it seems like they have artificially separated a single quest in two acts for no good narrative reason). But I really liked it in act. 2, especially the confrontation with his brother and the "haunted house" moments of the quest (Isabella's comments when object moved on their own were hilarious).

My favourite quests are The Longest Road, the Qunari Mage one, Isabella's personal quest in act 2, the raper quest (don't remember the name), Varric's quest in act. 2 and All that remains (that could have been way better with a little bit more of interaction between Hawke and the story).

Modifié par FedericoV, 30 avril 2011 - 01:59 .

[Sister Helen]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I was going to make some snarky comment about how that's just like real life, but I think I hear my wife coming. She'd just say something like "I know. Thats why I play video games. To get what I can't get in real life."

(I've learned not to give her straight lines.)

The click-clack of her stilleto heels on the wooden floor probably gave her away, right?

[Cutlass Jack]

Sister Helen wrote...

The click-clack of her stilleto heels on the wooden floor probably gave her away, right?

Nah. Fortunately I'm wearing them today.

Er, I mean I've hidden them! Yes hidden them from her. That.