73 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Oneiropolos wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

And your opinion doesn't match up with the facts. Anders advocates killing mages who use "forbidden magic" or have become abominations.

Oh, and the fact that Anders says it's totally fine for Thrask to die?

I guess you missed the fact that the templars gave a lobotomy to the first man he ever loved - he isn't going to see templars as the good guy when Karl has wrote to him of the horrors going on in the Gallows.

Oneiropolos wrote...

He flat out says better to kill one templar... despite the fact  AS YOU SAID he is upset by the mages in that SAME quest using blood magic.

Those particular mages were killed and he addresses Grace that those antagonists shouldn't have tried to kill them. Maybe they would have suffered the same fate as Alain, who is sent to the Gallows - repeated rape by a templar.

Oneiropolos wrote...

But hey, better to let potential blood magic users go free and kill the actual -sympathetic templar-, right?

Terrie never becomes an antagonist and writes a letter thanking Hawke.

Oneiropolos wrote...

Grace PROVES to be psychotic herself later, but Anders is all "Yep, let's kill at templar for them. What do you mean that Templar called us here specifically in order to try to help make sure these mages got to leave alive? It's easier if we kill him."

And Ser Kerras and Ser Alrik prove that some templars have no issue raping mages, so Anders' concerns aren't unwarranted.

Oneiropolos wrote...

Look. It's fine if you like Anders. But don't try to say "Your opinion doesn't match up with the facts" when you complete ignored what my argument was.

Please don't pretend that your opinons about a character are undisputed proof. The fact that Anders has no problem seeing blood mages or abominations get killed (and gives rivalry if Idunna, for instance, isn't killed) demonstrates that Anders is willing to see "psychotic" mages killed.

Oneiropolos wrote...

I don't say Anders supports blood magic, but he DOES make excuses when mages turn to it in death. REPEATEDLY. That's what I actually said. I know Anders does not support blood magic. I've played the game five times, and I have done an Anders romance playthrough and and Anders rival friendship, and an Anders regular friendship. I'm not sitting there cherry picking what Anders does to suit my point. He makes excuses for mages who turn into abominations because, like I also said, he may not REALIZE he's being pro-psychotic mages but his actions continually prove that it's the case.

Anders doesn't make excuses - he berates Merrill time and again, and makes no excuses for her use of blood magic.

Oneiropolos wrote...

He thinks he's being all liberation for mages, he can only see mages as victims. Which MANY mages -are-. His cause is not wrong. But even when your mother dies, he's all like, "I can't believe a mage would do that. I'm sorry." He can't believe a mage would do that? HE'S The one who keeps making the argument that mages are just like every other human in their emotions and deserve to be treated like human beings. He must be viewing the world with rose colored glasses because I'm pretty sure my warrior and rogue Hawkes aren't all "Gah, we got attacked by a gang? I can't believe someone wielding a sword/dagger would use it that way..."

Yeah, Anders can't believe someone would be sick enough to kill people to create Frankenstein's Monster from their body parts - that's his point.

Oneiropolos wrote...

Don't assume because someone doesn't agree with Anders and his radical decisions that they're automatically anti-mage and think mages should just put up with Templar abuse.

Your opinion about Anders supporting "psychotic" mages had nothing to do with a stand on the templars or the mages.

[Oneiropolos]

*sigh* There's really no point in debating this. You're just going to pick out particular comments and twist them to what you want them to be. Your OPINION is not fact either. You're drawing on Anders and his emotional state as reasons for why he acts what he does and saying that somehow changes the end result of who he ends up making excuses for. You're also seeming to assume that when I say "psychotic mages" I mean every mage in the game. As I said. I don't. But you've already formed your opinion of me, clearly, and this is cluttering up a thread about Aveline.

So! Another thing I adore about Aveline is how many times she wanted to strangle even my diplomatic Hawke. She realizes that what Hawke gets into is insane sometimes, which actually puts her aside from Varric in that Varric is almost thrilled with the insanity because it gives him writing material. Aveline is more "ARGH. I can't believe we're doing this" Even though we all know she secretly loves the thrill.

[Chuvvy]

I don't like Aveline. I don't like her personality and, in my opinion, how should I put this? She could easily replace the construction worker from the village people.

[LobselVith8]

Oneiropolos wrote...

*sigh* There's really no point in debating this. You're just going to pick out particular comments and twist them to what you want them to be.

All I did was address that none of Hawke's companions is pro-psychotic mages - that's all I initially stated. You are mistaken to claim that Anders supports psychopaths simply because they are magically inclined. Time and again he argues for the death of psychotic blood mages and abominations. If you think Anders was wrong about the Chantry or the templars, that's another issue, but it's not the issue you brought up.

Oneiropolos wrote...

Your OPINION is not fact either. You're drawing on Anders and his emotional state as reasons for why he acts what he does and saying that somehow changes the end result of who he ends up making excuses for.

You seem to be conflating the issue of whether Anders supports "psychotic mages" (which he doesn't given his approval for Idunna's death and his condemnation of the mage antagonists trying to kill them in "Act of Mercy") with whether he was right or wrong about the Chantry and the templars. I was addressing "psychotic mages."

Oneiropolos wrote...

You're also seeming to assume that when I say "psychotic mages" I mean every mage in the game.

I figured you meant mages who had gone psychotic, like Huon.

[LobselVith8]

Slidell505 wrote...

I don't like Aveline. I don't like her personality and, in my opinion, how should I put this? She could easily replace the construction worker from the village people.

I originally didn't think I would like Aveline, because I thought she would be in conflict if Hawke wasn't pro-templar since she was married to a templar, but I found her to be a great character. She wanted Kirkwall to be a safe place, she took her role as a guard seriously, and she was willing to bend the rules if the occassion demanded it - like when she supports Hawke if he decides to kill the child murdering scumbag Kelder in "Magistrate's Orders."

[Snowship]

So she has to be beautiful to be worth anything in the game?
Rubbish!

She's her own person who has no need to leach off Hawke and is a well rounded character, is she anything super, no. But that's the appeal.
People need to get their eyes away from ET and out of hollywood (actually, maybe take a realistic look at hollywood and realise the vast majority of actresses who can actually act, arn't the glamour ones).

And don't give me the "It's a fantasy game, I want to play with fantastic people". It's a game BioWare made, they'll make it the way they see it and we're all just going to have to fit in.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I thought using the sarcastic response was its own reward, but turns out the reward is a kiss from Aveline. I liked Aveline from the moment I saw her beating a darkspawn's face in. When I saw the flirt options in the dialogue I thought she was a possible LI but then I saw the way she looked at Donnic. Why? What's he got that Hawke doesn't? Maybe the fact that she's unattainable does make her more appealing though, could be why I like Varric as well.

[Sussurus]

I like that most of her choices and dislikes are not founded on ethical reasons or enforced morality.
She has her own mind, and you can see as such regarding the templar - mage issue often.

First time you meet Elthena yu'd think being rude to her would make Aveline PO...
"The maker had nothing to do with it, the hero of Fereldan stopped the blight." Aveline +5 friendship.

Hawke hopes to avoid bloodshed by helping Thrask + friendship.
Hawke makes Cullen take the tortured templar back into the order, against the templars wishes + friendship.
Hawke stays neutral to the Viscount + friendship.
Hawke keeps Thrasks secret + friendship.

Only if you act mercenary or outright evil does she react poorly on the most.
However certain shady quests like Fenris' introduction can gain rivalry.

Of all the characters she tends to be fleshed out beyond, I like, I hate.. one specific thing.

Modifié par Sussurus, 30 avril 2011 - 11:13 .

[Skilled Seeker]

I never clicked with Aveline, and it wasn't because of her manly face. She's a good character but I find her boring and she really pissed me off with her inept social skills during her romance subplot in Act 2. Also if you criticise her in anyway, regardless if you mean well, she gets angry while she spends her time criticising all the other party members.

[Xeranx]

Aveline, by far, is one of the best characters I've ever come across in a video game. I can remember many reactions to some of her comments. My first reaction to her "saves me camping on your doorstep" line had me actually look at her and think "you'd actually do that?" Every subsequent playthrough has me thinking, "I need to get an extra key made" whenever that line is said.

I think what made Aveline attractive to me was that we were told she wasn't an LI so I didn't expect it. When I saw the little heart icons I thought Gaider and co pulled one over on us. Going down that rabbit hole and being met with rejection. Not a sound rejection, but one as clear as day. Just watching a replay of it again on youtube a few minutes ago had me feeling bad when Hawke's heartbroken dialogue is used.

[Skilled Seeker]

Aveline is the Samara of DA really.

[Vicious]

She is more important to the plot than pretty much any companion besides Anders. For the heterosexual male, it's better to just go to the Pearl in DA2.

[Xeranx]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Aveline is the Samara of DA really.

Maybe in terms of unrequited admiration that could be love.  I view her as the Ashley (ME1) of DA because she's down to earth and doesn't need her hand held throughout the game or at all really.

[Skilled Seeker]

Xeranx wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Aveline is the Samara of DA really.

Maybe in terms of unrequited admiration that could be love.  I view her as the Ashley (ME1) of DA because she's down to earth and doesn't need her hand held throughout the game or at all really.

She also follows a moral code and does things by the book while being judgemental about everyone else. She is then respected for this.

Also she needed more than her hand held during her Act 2 subplot. Completely useless.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 01 mai 2011 - 05:37 .

[Porenferser]

I would see Aveline as a non-annoying version of Ashley (who I hate).

[Beerfish]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Aveline is the Samara of DA really.

Maybe in terms of unrequited admiration that could be love.  I view her as the Ashley (ME1) of DA because she's down to earth and doesn't need her hand held throughout the game or at all really.

She also follows a moral code and does things by the book while being judgemental about everyone else. She is then respected for this.

Also she needed more than her hand held during her Act 2 subplot. Completely useless.

Eh?  No she doesn't do everything by the book, she does many things not by the book and a number of times she expresses doubt as to why she is doing things with the champion that are dubious.  As guard captian she will put up a front of by the book but her actions are not like that.  It starts as early as her 1st run in with the then guard captain.

[ArawnNox]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Also she needed more than her hand held during her Act 2 subplot. Completely useless.

So, she's afraid of bearing her feelings to her subordinate for fear of rejection and/or making things awkward in the barracks and/or loosing the respect of her men and that makes her useless?

Ugh!

On to my own opinion.
I didn't think I was going to like Avaline all that much from what we see of her in the demo. However, she really grew on me. She was my Lady Hawke's best friend
I loved her Act 2 quest. It showed she had a certain vulnerability under that tough, by-the-book exterior. It also showed that she had her own life outside of Hawke's adventures. A real life that grew and evolved. I didn't see much of that outside the other party members. It made her feel more real.

And when she planted that kiss on my Lady Hawke I thought, "And why wasn't she a Love Intrest? Curse you Bioware!"

So, yeah, I may not like her skill set all that much, but she is one of my favorite companions.

[Brawne]

Porenferser wrote...

I would see Aveline as a non-annoying version of Ashley (who I hate).

Those two could be sisters and I hated them both.

[thesuperdarkone]

Brawne wrote...

Porenferser wrote...

I would see Aveline as a non-annoying version of Ashley (who I hate).

Those two could be sisters and I hated them both.

 

K we know you hate Aveline. Now GTFO

[Foolsfolly]

I like aveline. I think she is a strong character and well written. My problem with her is she's boring.

What Maladismal said.

[DownyTif]

I also think that Aveline is the best companion of the game. Even if I don't like her look (face) at all (I'm more a default female Hawke or Bethany kind), I think her personality fits her role and her dialogs. She is a little boring, but her values and loyalty are strong and she seems grounded (well established character). But she doesn't have a lot of competition though.

Varric: probably the closest to Aveline in terms of quality.
Merrill: Sweet... but crazy without personality and strong motives. Compared to Morrigan (same kind of character), she is miles away.
Anders: in Awakening, he was gold. In DA2, he is so depressed and emotional that it's irritating. Too depressed.
Fenris: apart from voice acting, I was seeing Cloud and his problems. Too many problems.
Carver: can't comment.
Bethany: liked her, but you don't see her for 90% of the game (anyway, in my playthrough)
Isabella: I don't mind easy girls, but she feels dirty (you know what I mean). Too sex oriented.

But for all companions, none of them, in my opinion, is close to any other characters/companions Bioware created so far. One of the reason is the lack of discussion with them, so you can't go deep in the relationship. So they feel empty.

[ReallyRue]

Although I don't like Aveline as much as Isabela, I still think she's an amazing character. Their scenes together are always excellent. I like that Aveline's trying to build a life for herself in Kirkwall, as opposed to Anders and Merrill's obsessive pursuits, Fenris and Sebastian dwelling on their past/futures, Isabela's drifting, or Varric's... whatever it is Varric does. That's not an attack on the other characters, it's just me expressing how good it is to have a character who's aspirations seem normal.

She wants the guard to be something worth respecting, she's trying to apply law and order and she doesn't let anything compromise that. And she wants to build herself a life. She's tough and serious, but she has her moments of sentimentality or humour.

Other than that, she feels a big like Hawke's responsible older sister or mother to me. Well, she feels like that for sarcasticHawke, not so much the other too. Her Act 2 quest is my favourite in the game.

[Beerfish]

Aveline knocked me down and pummeled me and I liked it ...

[TheAwesomologist]

I'm a huge fan of Aveline, and while it works out wonderfully for her story, it is a pity there's no chance of a romance with Hawke.
As a character she's great. Strong, focused, and not bat-shiat crazy, broody, obsessed, chaste, or diseased. She boarders on preachiness at times but right when it starts to get annoying (for me anyways) she generally drops it. She's also the closest one to being Hawke's equal in both power and influence. Aveline tries her best to keep Kirkwall together at the end of Act 2, and by Act 3 she's the only power player in Kirkwall, besides Hawke, who isn't controlled by the Templars.
I actually found it odd at the end that she hesitates when you side with the mages. Not that she hadn't expressed her general mistrust of mages (I think she and Sebastian are the only characters who give a view probably held by most of the general population), and how she views the Circle is a generally good thing, but in Meredith's quests she's quick to realize that the mages had been driven to blood magic due to the Templar's tight grip. The final conversation with her is also touching. Besides Varric, Aveline is probably Hawke's most loyal friend.

Also if you're not traveling around with Isabella & Aveline you're missing out on one of the better side stories in the game, not to mention some of the best party banter. Two polar opposite women who eventually earn a mutual respect for one another and form a friendship by Act 3.