47 réponses à ce sujet

[Skilled Seeker]

To start off, I'd like to say I very much enjoy DA2 and think its a good game though there are undeniable flaws present due to the short development cycle and too many changes being implemented all at once. I enjoy all manner of games (except dancing ones).

Now lets take a look at Bioware's present IPs. There is Mass Effect which is a shooter/RPG hybrid. There is The Old Republic which is an MMORPG. Then we have DA. The first was marketed as a 'return to roots' CRPG and attracted that audience. Yet now with DA2, Bioware doesn't seem to know what they want it to be. It tries to be both an action RPG and a CRPG. This has caused a lot of anguish. I understand why Bioware wishes to tap into the action RPG market, it has many fans but none of Bioware's current IPs are made for it.

Bioware needs to have an IP that is created from the ground up with action RPG gameplay in mind rather than encroach on another's territory. The CRPG fanbase is far from dead as this backlash against DA2 shows and DA:O's sales speak for themselves. Infact the CRPG fanbase is crying for CRPG games which are few and far between while the action RPG genre has more titles presently. For these reasons Bioware should not abondon the CRPG genre or it will lose many old customers.

Bioware DO have an action RPG IP, Jade Empire! Many of us are still waiting for a sequel to this excellent acclaimed entry. It would allow Bioware to cover all the bases of the RPG spectrum and keep fans of all genres happy. DA can then return to being a strictly CRPG title.

What do you think forum goers?

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 30 avril 2011 - 01:39 .

[xCelesx]

Well I support a new JE game, prefer it over most other Bioware games anyway

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I have not played Jade Empire to be perfectly honest, and it's probably the only Bioware RPG outside of the Sonic game that I have not played.

Regardless, it looks like an interesting IP, and if it can get Laidlaw working away from Dragon Age as well as let Bioware focus on DA as it's "pure" RPG IP, all the better.

There is a market for CRPGs, many people dismiss it, but Origins is Bioware's best selling game. So that argument falls flat.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 30 avril 2011 - 02:09 .

[88mphSlayer]

i would like to see a sequel too, but they need to take their time reinventing that IP, the first game was ok but not exactly brilliant...

[Cutlass Jack]

I'd only be interested in it if they put full visual character design into it. Instead of the predone bodies. And maybe be a little less predictable on the plot.

But the first one was quite good in spite of those two things.

[Demon Velsper]

I have no interest in it but I'm 100% for anything that gets Laidlaw away from DA.

[Skilled Seeker]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I'd only be interested in it if they put full visual character design into it. Instead of the predone bodies. And maybe be a little less predictable on the plot.

But the first one was quite good in spite of those two things.

You found the story predictable? It totally caught me by surprised. Loved every second of it.

[Cutlass Jack]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

You found the story predictable? It totally caught me by surprised. Loved every second of it.

Yup. I figured out who the main villan was before I even got out of the intro. And other surprises (like who Zu really was) were so obvious to me that I was literally hitting my forehead against the table every time my character played dumb about it.

[OdanUrr]

I'd like to see a JE2 in the near future.

[Skilled Seeker]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

You found the story predictable? It totally caught me by surprised. Loved every second of it.

Yup. I figured out who the main villan was before I even got out of the intro. And other surprises (like who Zu really was) were so obvious to me that I was literally hitting my forehead against the table every time my character played dumb about it.

Still, nowhere near as predictable as DA:O's story. That's painfully obvious right after Ostagar when the game really begins.

[AkiKishi]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

You found the story predictable? It totally caught me by surprised. Loved every second of it.

Yup. I figured out who the main villan was before I even got out of the intro. And other surprises (like who Zu really was) were so obvious to me that I was literally hitting my forehead against the table every time my character played dumb about it.

Still, nowhere near as predictable as DA:O's story. That's painfully obvious right after Ostagar when the game really begins.

DAs story never relied on a twist though.
 Same thing with KOTOR as with JE it's very frustrating to know the big secret and not being able to spring it on your companions until the story says it's time. 

Of course it's equally valid to say that the players and characters deductive reasoning are not the same.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 30 avril 2011 - 02:42 .

[Skilled Seeker]

ME is not the kind of action Laidlaw is going for. ME is a shooter, not a fantasy melee and magic game. There is a big difference in how they play. Hence I mention JE

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 30 avril 2011 - 02:50 .

[MorrigansLove]

Jade empire 2 over DA3 anyday.

[Cutlass Jack]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Of course it's equally valid to say that the players and characters deductive reasoning are not the same.

This is a fair enough point. However in JE's case the main reason I figured out the twist was due to my character pushing his sensei's buttons and getting him to show a side of his personality that was distinctively not 'Obi-Wan' ish.

Origins was obvious too of course. The only way it would have been more obvious at Ostragar was to give Loghain a moustache to twirl when when he says 'a glorious day for us all.' But as mentioned that story wasn't as 'twist' focused. Figuring out why Loghain does what you knew he was going to do is the deeper story.

The closest thing to a 'twist ' was Morrigan's reveal of the Dark Ritual. But all that really got out of me was a "you have got to be kidding me." Might have helped if there was a bit more space between that and finding out you'd die when you killed the Archdemon.

[T-0pel]

Absolutely agree with OP. I really feel like Bioware thought about making JE2 but then decided to use the same concept on a much better recived DAO with far larger fanbase... But that is just my feeling :-D
Btw I enjoyed JE very much in almost all regards but Bioware should imho stop trying to merge all gamestyles together as they did with DA2 and keep the diversity between them. I know from a financial point of view it is better to have one huge fanbase that loves all your games but that just aint possible and merging styles is a very bad move.

[Volourn]

JE was an awesome game that wa svatslym underrated but it sold 'only' a1.5-2mil copies max. Not good enough for a BIO sequel.

JE was wayyyyyyyyyy better than the overrated KOTOR and just as good as the ME series and DA series. And, 1 billion times better than BG1.

I would love a JE2 but it's likely not gonna happen.

Modifié par Volourn, 30 avril 2011 - 03:20 .

[rayvioletta]

personally the Jade Empire twist shocked me a lot more than the KotOR twist which I correctly predicted before leaving the first planet (not that it stopped me from enjoying the game though)
while character customisation would have been a great addition, it's absence was one of the few flaws of the game. Jade Empire of course doesn't have the depth of say Origins or Baldurs Gate, but unlike DA2 it never pretended to
I'd love to see a sequel to Jade Empire almost as much as I'd love to see a sequel to Origins that could live up to the original

[Skilled Seeker]

Bare in mind JE released as an Xbox exclusive, only coming to PC 2 years later and never making it to PS. That would have had an effect on sales.

And if you say 2 million isn't good enough for Bioware then I guess DA is dead.

[Il Divo]

I would not mind if Bioware decided to abandon the Dragon Age franchise to continue with Jade Empire. Personally, I thought what they started with Kotor, they perfected with Jade Empire.

My only complaint with the game was that we didn't get to see Phoenix Gate. =/

Modifié par Il Divo, 30 avril 2011 - 03:34 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Yeah Phoenix Gate sounded like an awesome city. We better go there in JE2!

[Volourn]

"Baldurs Gate"

What depth? I loved BG a great deal when it came out but the game doesn't have much depth. It's a shallow dumbed down version of D&D. The joinables are just spalsh numbers and character models, the combat gives you very littel choice in what to do, the exploration ism nothing but clearing out maps, the story is just point a to point b to pointc with absolutely no decisions on how to do stuff.

BG was a fun game to play... nearly 15 years ago.. but it completely falls flat compared to modern rpgs or even some of its fellow games of the era. And, i know this as I am trying to replay it currently and it's dragging....

JE is way deeper and more complex than BG1. No contest.

[Sabriana]

Agreed. It is indeed strange that they had a perfectly good action game IP just gathering dust. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad at all. Even I liked it, and I usually don't go for action games with RPG elements. A few tweaks here and there, and they have a ready-made action RPG.

Say what you will about Mike Laidlaw, but he certainly is enthusiastic, and he seems to have a great understanding what action games are all about. It just didn't fit into the DA IP, and messed it up badly, as well as alienating a large group of people they formerly held firmly in their hand.

I also agree that the CRPG is far from dead. It's a larger marked than people seem to realize. It's also not dying out, because there are a lot of young people playing them. People of all ages play them, and the providers of CRPGs are few and far between.

So they could hold a comfortable grip on the niche market. Bioware had a big chunk of the market firmly in its grasp. Why let go and go for a crowd they simply can't capture with a fantasy action/anime/whatever it was game.


Edited. Spelling. Bah.

Modifié par Sabriana, 30 avril 2011 - 03:50 .

[Volourn]

The CRPG market will always be niche. A BIO CRPG will never be a seller in the same way that the Sims, Pokeman, or other real mainstream games are.

BIO hasn't let anyhting go. They'll be fine.

P.S. Laidlaw and co didn't miss anything up since DA1 and DA2 are equal.

[Il Divo]

Volourn wrote...

"Baldurs Gate"

What depth? I loved BG a great deal when it came out but the game doesn't have much depth. It's a shallow dumbed down version of D&D. The joinables are just spalsh numbers and character models, the combat gives you very littel choice in what to do, the exploration ism nothing but clearing out maps, the story is just point a to point b to pointc with absolutely no decisions on how to do stuff.

BG was a fun game to play... nearly 15 years ago.. but it completely falls flat compared to modern rpgs or even some of its fellow games of the era. And, i know this as I am trying to replay it currently and it's dragging....

JE is way deeper and more complex than BG1. No contest.

While I love all of Bioware's products (except Neverwinter Nights), I do have to agree with this. As Bioware's first game, it was an impressive start, but the story itself really felt like a glorified scavenger hunt. Bioware games have always been traditionally slow, but BG1 is slow in all the wrong ways.

Modifié par Il Divo, 30 avril 2011 - 03:52 .