23 réponses à ce sujet

[Chugster]

just wondering, ive been testing a weapon spawn mod and ive noticed that none of the weapons are better then the Empress' Point sword from the Warrior pack...is this correct?

I hope not as its not the best looking sword ingame and i hate choosing between aesthetics and performance...gives me a headache

[AreleX]

As far as physical damage weapons go, no, they are not. Elemental damage, if you plan on coordinating your weapons with elemental weaknesses, is another story, however.

[DA Trap Star]

No, not even elemental weapons can match up imo.

40 Physical Damage
+11% attack Speed
+3% Critical Chance
+4 Strength

and 2 rune slots.

Its a beast without the 2 rune slots which you add a Rune of Devastation to.

[Chugster]

yeah, i thought so...shame they made it so powerful, makes all the other endgame weapons moot...unless you want to take a DPS hit

Maybe ill mod it to look like someting else for my next 2h playthrough...just got to pick something

[IN1]

That's incorrect. Empress' Point is the 4th best 2H sword in the game, or the 5th best, if Vigilance ever gets officially restored. With patch 1.03 (or my useless properties fix, ATM), the Celebrant, Bloom and Sundering are all significantly better than Empress' Point. Looking at base damage value is pretty much useless when determining weapons' relative strength (unless we are talking 30 dmg vs 40 dmg, for example, and we are not).

Elemental weapons are much better than the physical ones for three main reasons: (1) much higher soft cap on +X% damage bonus; (2) elemental damage bypassing armor; (3) elemental weaknesses mean x2 damage, on top of all that. There is also some icing on the cake in form of additional damage type effects (stun/stamina drain for electricity, freeze for cold, resistance halved for spirit).

Modifié par IN1, 30 avril 2011 - 06:22 .

[Att3r0]

Empress Point is best act 2 weapon ... well end off it but it is ;]
Elemental weapons are OP hands down. Essentialy you just use the spirit one and swap for Sundering when immune (the two things immune to spirit are weak to electricity)

IN1 how does the ressitance halved for spirit work ? it doesnt do anything if target is already weak to spirit i belive...
and if target got normal resistance - if elemental atack do 500 dam normally it will do 750?

[IN1]

Att3r0 wrote...

Empress Point is best act 2 weapon ... well end off it but it is ;]
Elemental weapons are OP hands down. Essentialy you just use the spirit one and swap for Sundering when immune (the two things immune to spirit are weak to electricity)

IN1 how does the ressitance halved for spirit work ? it doesnt do anything if target is already weak to spirit i belive...
and if target got normal resistance - if elemental atack do 500 dam normally it will do 750?

As far as I can tell, DR reduction has nothing to do with weakness to spirit.

If there were creatures with 100% DR, your example of 500 vs 750 damage would be correct As it is, DR blocks a percentage of incoming damage. Spirit halves that value. So, for example, if you hit a 20% DR creature with a spirit weapon, it will be considered a 10% DR creature. The corollary of this principle is, obviously, that spirit is relatively much more efficient, for instance, vs ser Alrik than it is vs generic Templars. 

Modifié par IN1, 30 avril 2011 - 07:12 .

[DA Trap Star]

On consoles, Sundering is gimped.
It has no rune slots, and we can't fix the useless +10 Physical Damage Property. Its not worth the money imo, you can spend it better elsewhere.

Bloom I feel is better than the Empress Point, but with the Celebrant I disagree. I run into to many Shades, Abominations and Arcane Demon's on NM who are immune to Spirit damage for me to depend on it. And it only has 1 rune slot.

Empress Point has +11% Attack speed which is pretty useful against any enemy.
The +13% Critical chance which is great for CCC. And 2 rune slots so I can add both the Rune of Devastation and Varric's Primeval Run so it can be beefed up.

[Att3r0]

thats ...unexpected...so how does destroyer work ?
does it reduce DR or armor reduction ?
high armor is common and DR is not ... but then if it bypass DR then elemental weapon + destroyer = win

[IN1]

On consoles, Sundering is gimped.
It has no rune slots, and we can't fix the useless +10 Physical Damage Property. Its not worth the money imo, you can spend it better elsewhere.

Console version will get Patch 2 as well. Much to my delight, the properties will be fixed in the patch in accordance with my suggestions. The only advantage PC players have in this respect is they can have their fixed Sundering now by downloading my mod. No rune slots is no big deal, as Sundering has very good properties (in a fixed form, that is).

Bloom I feel is better than the Empress Point, but with the Celebrant I disagree. I run into to many Shades, Abominations and Arcane Demon's on NM who are immune to Spirit damage for me to depend on it. And it only has 1 rune slot.

You can, like, you know, switch between weapons If you mean the best weapon for lazy players, then yes, by all means -- there is no substitute for Empress' Point.

Empress Point has +11% Attack speed which is pretty useful against any enemy.
The +13% Critical chance which is great for CCC. And 2 rune slots so I can add both the Rune of Devastation and Varric's Primeval Run so it can be beefed up.

Well, I've seen players that just prefer to auto-attack things to death on NM. I disagree with this approach. A skillfully positioned Holy Smite > Whirlwind will full +spirit setup and the Celebrant will wipe any end-game group out. No exceptions.

Upgraded Whirlwind is auto-crit, so critical chance is not a concern. Holy Smite bypasses spirit immunity on Fade creatures (shades, for example).

If you are going for CCC on a strong target with, say, Mighty Blow, you should cast Hex of Torment anyway, which eliminates the need to have high natural crit chance.

Modifié par IN1, 30 avril 2011 - 08:25 .

[IN1]

Att3r0 wrote...

thats ...unexpected...so how does destroyer work ?
does it reduce DR or armor reduction ?
high armor is common and DR is not ... but then if it bypass DR then elemental weapon + destroyer = win

Well, I don't know what do you mean by "win". To my understanding, that's what happens. For example, I'm hitting the same 20% DR creature. I get a crit, I have Destroyer and a spirit weapon. So now the creature has 5% DR instead of 20%. Yes, it does make a difference, especially vs tougher enemies, but I don't find this combination abusive or something. If every second enemy in the game had 100% DR, then yes, by all means, spirit weapon + Destroyer would have been ridiculously OP.

This info is not official, and based, primarily, on educated guesses and empirical testing. I may be wrong regarding the gory details You can pm Peter Thomas with the question, if you want to be 100% sure. 

[AreleX]

IN1 wrote...

Well, I've seen players that just prefer to auto-attack things to death on NM. I disagree with this approach. A skillfully positioned Holy Smite > Whirlwind will full +spirit setup and the Celebrant will wipe any end-game group out. No exceptions.

SNEAK DISSIN'!

[Chugster]

so how exactly is a 38dps (all endgame swords including Vigilance) sword better than a 40dps sword (Empress Point)? or are these changing in patch 1.03?

coz all can go on for damage on these things and Empress Point is highest...or am i missing sometthing. if certain weapons are better against certain mobs then let me know

Modifié par Chugster, 30 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

[aethernox]

+% XP gain gear can allow you to reach level 27.

[IN1]

Chugster wrote...

so how exactly is a 38dps (all endgame swords including Vigilance) sword better than a 40dps sword (Empress Point)? or are these changing in patch 1.03?

coz all can go on for damage on these things and Empress Point is highest...or am i missing sometthing. if certain weapons are better against certain mobs then let me know

Errr... I believe I have explained it in this comment:

http://social.biowar...7257744#7258942

Modifié par IN1, 01 mai 2011 - 12:53 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

aethernox wrote...

+% XP gain gear can allow you to reach level 27.

Only if you stack them (I guess 2~3 such gears are required) consistently over the course of the game, which frankly is not worth it as there are better gears. Your Act 3 should be focused on getting better gears (runes, unique rings/weapons) rather than leveling up anyway.

If the +% XP gears have say, a +8% bonus on a single piece, it might be worth it. +1% or +2% is frankly bad design for a game whose level is capped at 50.

I though +% XP gears stack across the party so it's not like i keep them all on hawke

[Chugster]

ok but arent Bloom and Sundering not swords?

and according to the Wiki Celebrant is the only non physical dmg sword, so i think this and Vigilance, which ignores armor, would be your only other choices for 2h swords...yes?

it seems odd to me to not judge a weapon on its DPS

Modifié par Chugster, 01 mai 2011 - 10:14 .

[IN1]

ok but arent Bloom and Sundering not swords?

and according to the Wiki Celebrant is the only non physical dmg sword, so i think this and Vigilance, which ignores armor, would be your only other choices for 2h swords...yes?

In DA2 there is no technical difference between 2H-swords and 2H-mauls, for example. The damage calculations for all sub-types of 2H weapons are identical.

it seems odd to me to not judge a weapon on its DPS

You chose to disregard my comments and persist in claiming Empress' Point is the best 2-hander in the game. Judge your weapons by whatever parameters you want, that's fine with me, let's just finish this oddball discussion

[bossk-office]

it seems odd to me to not judge a weapon on its DPS

I’m pretty sure IN1 knows what he’s doing. To take two simple (simplified) examples:

• 38 damage that bypasses armor (elemental) is better than 40 damage (physical) that does not bypass armor. Because of course armor will subtract from those 40 points. You can’t just look at the numbers 40 and 38 and say 40 is better.

• If you're fighting, say, rage demons, they are weak to cold. So against them, a weapon with "38 cold damage" is much better than a weapon that deals 40 physical, because in practice it does 38x2=76 damage against them because of their weakness. Again, you can’t just say 40 is more than 38.

In reality things get much more complicated with all the resistances and buffs, but if we take his advice and switch weapons between fights we can deal more damage. If we also switch around gear that buffs elemental damage. And we switch to the right weapons, of course ... it’s completely useless to fight those rage demons with a fire weapon. And you’ll always have to choose a favorite weapon where you put Sandal’s unique speed rune. But still.

If you haven’t tried this it sounds like a chore, but when you get the hang of it and notice that difficult fight just got easier, then it pretty quickly starts to add to the fun ...!

Modifié par panchamkauns, 01 mai 2011 - 12:10 .

[Chugster]

IN1 wrote...

ok but arent Bloom and Sundering not swords?

and according to the Wiki Celebrant is the only non physical dmg sword, so i think this and Vigilance, which ignores armor, would be your only other choices for 2h swords...yes?

In DA2 there is no technical difference between 2H-swords and 2H-mauls, for example. The damage calculations for all sub-types of 2H weapons are identical.

it seems odd to me to not judge a weapon on its DPS

You chose to disregard my comments and persist in claiming Empress' Point is the best 2-hander in the game. Judge your weapons by whatever parameters you want, that's fine with me, let's just finish this oddball discussion

im not disregarding your post, just trying to understand it...and the post above makes things clearer

[IN1]

Chugster wrote...

IN1 wrote...

ok but arent Bloom and Sundering not swords?

and according to the Wiki Celebrant is the only non physical dmg sword, so i think this and Vigilance, which ignores armor, would be your only other choices for 2h swords...yes?

In DA2 there is no technical difference between 2H-swords and 2H-mauls, for example. The damage calculations for all sub-types of 2H weapons are identical.

it seems odd to me to not judge a weapon on its DPS

You chose to disregard my comments and persist in claiming Empress' Point is the best 2-hander in the game. Judge your weapons by whatever parameters you want, that's fine with me, let's just finish this oddball discussion

im not disregarding your post, just trying to understand it...and the post above makes things clearer

[AKOdin]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

IN1 wrote...
 (stun/stamina drain for electricity, freeze for cold, resistance halved for spirit).

Electricity drains stamina?

I thought Peter Thomas (in the thread where he explains mechanics) that enemies have no mana/stamina. Their abilities are strictly on a cooldown timer. So it would just be the stun then, wouldn't it?