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[Alpha-Centuri]

Ladies and Gents, it has been inferred that our very own Sheperd is more than likely going to be recalled back into the Alliance. While many of us are Spectres, we have proof that the Alliance still has some type of authority over Shepard.Not only are we about to stand trial in front of the Alliance, if you think back to ME1, Sheperd was grounded by a Rear Admiral in the Alliance for inspection of the Normandy. In ME3, we're going to be flying with an Alliance-retooled Normandy, squadmates, and possibly crewmates. Due to Shepard's numerous achievements and heroics, it's time for a promotion.

Shepard has saved the galaxy three times with the onset of Arrival, and all he got was this stupid t-shirt. This is coupled with the fact that Kaiden has been officially promoted to Staff Commander for those that didn't kill him, and it will make for an awkward situation when the squadmate you're ordering around is actually a higher rank.

Yeah yeah, we're on trial for mass murder. But after that gets cleared up, I'm sure we're going to be back in their good graces. After the Reapers come, I expect the Alliance to have the Normandy fully prepped for you and send you off to get the races to unite. Here's a possible (albeit unlikely) way it could play out.

-----------------------------------
Sheperd is walking through the docking station, getting ready to leave, with Hackett, and VS walking beside him. 

Hackett: "Sheperd, Alliance Command believes it best to send a personal envoy to meet with the council races. They are making their own preparations, and if its disjointed, we both know we won't have a shot at stopping the Reapers. You're our best bet to get them to see reason. We're assigning Alenko/Williams to your ship detail. Alliance HQ has recognized your service to the Alliance, and I've been authorized to grant you a field promotion to Captain."

Alenko/Willliams: "Just like old times, sir." *salute*
------------------------------------

If we're not promoted to Captain, we atleast could make it to a full blown Commander. Bioware built in some mobility by allowing a promotion and he'll still be Commander.Shepard.

Note: In context, historically speaking, the issue isn't actually all that problematic. There are plenty of times where a person who was given a command unit had a member of a higher rank serving "under" them. Delegated Authority is normal, and its ok if the person you are ordering around is a higher rank. However, no matter what field you are in whether it be military, education,corporate, etc., the person in charge generally has a higher paygrade than the people under them. I think the same should occur with Shepard.

What do ya'll think? Should Shepard get a raise?

[Raiil]

I think Shepard should boot off anyone not going to be loyal to them personally and fly off roaring 'Eat my thrusters, dillweed' before saving the galaxy again.


Personal preference aside (I'd use harsher language), if they 'have' to be Alliance, then yes, a promotion is necessary. But Commander 'Spaced' Shepard really shouldn't have to lick boots at this point.

[MisterJB]

"Gets cleared up"? Those charges can't be cleared up. It doesn't matter that the Reapers were coming, Shepard had no authority to do what he did and let's not forget the Batarians looking for an excuse to start a war with humanity.
Forget about getting a promotion, we should be happy if Shepard doesn't end up in jail or facing the firing squad.

[Alpha-Centuri]

MisterJB wrote...

"Gets cleared up"? Those charges can't be cleared up. It doesn't matter that the Reapers were coming, Shepard had no authority to do what he did and let's not forget the Batarians looking for an excuse to start a war with humanity.
Forget about getting a promotion, we should be happy if Shepard doesn't end up in jail or facing the firing squad.

That's a bit off-topic but I'll take the bait. Ride along with me for a minute. You're renegade Shep. Hackett gave you back your report saying "I don't need this to know you did what was right" or something like that. The mission was off the grid, and the only witness is some guy who took off a shuttle who is indoctrinated. Last place he'd be is Earth most likely. Where's the proof?

There are other threads for that specific topic, and we can continue the conversation there. Or you could make one 

[Raiil]

Shepard could just as easily go rogue. They've got the baddest ship in the galaxy and at least the remnants of a badass crew. I can't see why any Shepard couldn't tell the Alliance to bite their shiny metal drive core and take off. :/ Maybe Shepard gets hauled in involuntarily, in some cases? IDK.

And Shepard was working on the behest of the Alliance. I'm going to think a lot less of Hackett if he doesn't own up that this was all his idea.

[Thargorichiban]

Well, before the events of the end of ME1 you are correct in thinking the Alliance had no hold over you. The problem is that in the beginning of ME2 they have become one of the key members of the Council (or whatever) is in place at the moment.

No matter what your rank is the Alliance will have some say about what you do. I don't think Admirals in the Alliance would be held unaccountable for their own actions. So any sort of promotion would be sort of moot.

[JamieCOTC]

Yes, going from Lt Commander to Commander is a good idea.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Next rank to Shepard's is Commander, so it wouldn't change anything in terms of how people refer to her.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 30 avril 2011 - 06:20 .

[Nicodemus]

Doesn't matter if there is someone aboard the ship with a higher rank, there can only be 1 captain on a ship and unless Shep is told that he isn't in charge of the ship they'll have to obey his orders.

[snfonseka]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Yes, going from Lt Commander to Commander is a good idea.

^THIS.

[Alpha-Centuri]

Nicodemus wrote...

Doesn't matter if there is someone aboard the ship with a higher rank, there can only be 1 captain on a ship and unless Shep is told that he isn't in charge of the ship they'll have to obey his orders.

I agree, and that's in the last paragraph of the title post.

I wrote...

There are plenty of times where a person who was given a command unit had a member of a higher rank serving "under" them. Delegated Authority is normal, and its ok if the person you are ordering around is a higher rank. However, no matter what field you are in whether it be military, education,corporate, etc., the person in charge generally has a higher paygrade than the people under them. I think the same should occur with Shepard.

What do ya'll think? Should Shepard get a raise?

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 30 avril 2011 - 06:26 .

[Nicodemus]

Aye, was just backing you up.

[MisterJB]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...


That's a bit off-topic
 

Not really. You asked if we think Shepard should be promoted in ME3. I said that I don't believe Shepard will be promoted because of what happened in "Arrival".

 Hackett gave you back your report saying "I don't need this to know you did what was right"

The problem is that it's not about what's rigth or what's wrong. First of all, even if there was no other option, Shepard did not have the authority to make that decision.
And second, the Batarians want an excuse to start a war with Humanity. They will demand for the human who killed 300 000 batarians to be punished. If they see the Alliance not only not sentencing Shepard but also giving him a promotion, what do you think will happen?
Logically, the batarians should forgive Shepard. Unfortunately, this is politics. There's no way the Hegemony will let an opportunity like this slip away, they will demand Shepard's head and the Alliance will have to use him as an scapegoat.
And even if the Batarian did not want Shepard's head, the Alliance would still want to use his punishment as a way to improve Human-Batarian relations.

The mission was off the grid, and the only witness is some guy who took off a shuttle who is indoctrinated. Last place he'd be is Earth most likely. Where's the proof?

Exactly, whoever escaped was indocrinated. So, if they escaped (that security guard did say "They left us here") it's because the Reapers allowed them to do so. Why?
Well, maybe they have the proof against Shepard. 
Besides, you don't need an eye witness to incriminate Shepard. It's all in his report and the Normandy was the last ship that came through the Alpha Relay before it blew up. Coincidence?

Modifié par MisterJB, 30 avril 2011 - 06:37 .

[Shadowrun1177]

On this subject I'm not sure how it works in the ME Universe, but today's military will give Posthumous promotion to a solider who die's in combat while serving their country. Since Shepard was killed in action or at least presumed killed in action would they have given him/her such a promotion. I mean at the beginning of ME 2 at that point Shepard is the savior of the Citadel and such so it would of make since that they did if it's something the Alliance does. I mean don't they do it to Ash or Kaidan whichever one dies on Virmire?

Modifié par Shadowrun1177, 30 avril 2011 - 07:03 .

[Alpha-Centuri]

MisterJB wrote...

The problem is that it's not about what's rigth or what's wrong. First of all, even if there was no other option, Shepard did not have the authority to make that decision.

You're right. But he did blow up the relay, and nobody can prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Like you said, it doesn't matter if its right or wrong. He didn't have the "authority", but he still did it. It's a given he is at trial, so obviously there is enough suspicion to indict. But there isn't enough evidence to convict.

And second, the Batarians want an excuse to start a war with Humanity. They will demand for the human who killed 300 000 batarians to be punished. If they see the Alliance not only not sentencing Shepard but also giving him a promotion, what do you think will happen?

We need more bad guys besides husks and reapers. At this point, i'm almost certain that we WILL go to war with them. Gameplay demands it.

Logically, the batarians should forgive Shepard. Unfortunately, this is politics. There's no way the Hegemony will let an opportunity like this slip away, they will demand Shepard's head and the Alliance will have to use him as an scapegoat.
And even if the Batarian did not want Shepard's head, the Alliance would still want to use his punishment as a way to improve Human-Batarian relations.

Nah, doubt it. It's well reasoned though, and if it was not a action game that needed baddies, I'd agree.

Exactly, whoever escaped was indocrinated. So, if they escaped (that security guard did say "They left us here") it's because the Reapers allowed them to do so. Why?

Well, maybe they have the proof against Shepard. 

Besides, you don't need an eye witness to incriminate Shepard. It's all in his report and the Normandy was the last ship that came through the Alpha Relay before it blew up. Coincidence?

Not to incriminate, but to convict. Sheperd should be on trial, but the case is faulty at best. Hackett gave back the report to Sheperd, which is where all the evidence lies. Its in Shepard's hands. The only substantial evidence that people can be made aware of, is if Shepard hands over the report to the Alliance at the trial. 

And short of a video-tape of Shepard being there, the guy would have nothing to stand on. Renegade Shepard could disavow all knowledge of the situation. Hey, it worked for Saren right? As you said, it doesn't matter right or wrong (different context of course)

As to the Alpha Relay point, how does anyone know that? The Normandy is a stealth frigate that is practically undetectable unless someone "eyeballs" it in space. 

edit: You're argument is a valid one, but while its fun to immerse yourself into the world, there has to be a game as well. We need a variety of badguys, and I doubt the Alliance would convict Shepard in the middle of a Reaper attack, just so they can look good for a lesser foe. 

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 30 avril 2011 - 07:08 .

[Alpha-Centuri]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

On this subject I'm not sure how it works in the ME Universe, but today's military will give Posthumous promotion to a solider who die's in combat while serving their country. Since Shepard was killed in action or at least presumed killed in action would they have given him/her such a promotion. I mean at the beginning of ME 2 at that point Shepard is the savior of the Citadel and such so it would of make since that they did if it's something the Alliance does. I mean don't they do it to Ash or Kaidan whichever one dies on Virmire?

I think Ashley gets posthumous medals, but not rank. Don't quote me though. I'll check when I get home a little later.

[Akizora]

I'm more in the camp that thinks Ashley will be more like "I'm a Spectre now Shepard, you take orders from me" and full of herself. As long as I get to tell her to get bent and refuse, I'm happy I don't think Shepard will receive a promotion, afterall it starts with him on trial - is there even time for a promotion?

"Commander Shepard, you stand accused of aiding a terrorist group and for the destruction of a solar system and the deaths of 300 000 batarians. We sentence you to promotion to Captain, effective immediately."

[Shadowrun1177]

Akizora wrote...

I'm more in the camp that thinks Ashley will be more like "I'm a Spectre now Shepard, you take orders from me" and full of herself. As long as I get to tell her to get bent and refuse, I'm happy I don't think Shepard will receive a promotion, afterall it starts with him on trial - is there even time for a promotion?

"Commander Shepard, you stand accused of aiding a terrorist group and for the destruction of a solar system and the deaths of 300 000 batarians. We sentence you to promotion to Captain, effective immediately."

I don't see Ashley being like that cause Shepard may of had his Spectre status reinstated so would be a Spectre also and have seniority over Ashley. Add in the fact Alliance rank wise Ashley's rank is still lower then Shepards cause she is an NCO while Shepard is an Officer.

[MisterJB]

I did not remember that Hackett returned the report to Shepard.

Alpha-Centuri wrote...
We need more bad guys besides husks and reapers. At this point, i'm almost certain that we WILL go to war with them. Gameplay demands it.
And short of a video-tape of Shepard being there, the guy would have nothing to stand on. Renegade Shepard could disavow all knowledge of the situation. Hey, it worked for Saren right? As you said, it doesn't matter right or wrong (different context of course)
You're argument is a valid one, but while its fun to immerse yourself into the world, there has to be a game as well. We need a variety of badguys, and I doubt the Alliance would convict Shepard in the middle of a Reaper attack, just so they can look good for a lesser foe. 

Alrigth, I see your point. However, I'm going to cover your Human-Batarian war and raise it one. This is how I see ME3 starting.
The Reapers had to have left that group of people survive for a reason. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the evidence they have is a recording of Shepard saying he wants to start the Project and the VI warning him of the consequences.
With this kind of evidence, the Alliance absolutely has to find Shepard guilty. It's not about looking good anymore, he did it.
But just as Shepard is being taken away, the Reapers attack and Shepard is forced to escape with the Normandy and it's crew.
And so Shepard will have to figth Alliance Soldiers, Batarians, Reapers, Husks and Cerberus.

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

I don't see Ashley being like that cause Shepard may of had his Spectre status reinstated so would be a Spectre also and have seniority over Ashley.

Shepard's trial is on Earth. Hence, the Council removed his Spectre status.

Modifié par MisterJB, 30 avril 2011 - 07:37 .

[TomY90]

I can imagine promotion will depend on what happens at the end of ME3 and of course what happens at the start of ME3.

Paragon / Spectre - likely the alliance will be more willing to forgive but should fail with lack of evidence and alliance having no jurisdiction over shepherd for being a spectre and likely the arrival of the reapers will get rid of the case.

Paragon / Not A spectre - likely the alliance will have much more evidence against you due them having clearance on the mission due to not being a spectre and likely options will be you will be paradoned if you fight and stop the reapers or afterward everything is done you will be put into prison.

Renegade / Spectre - The alliance will try get you locked up to stop anything bad from happening but likely the council steps in saying they have no jurisdiction over a spectre and cannot get locked up when (s)he is a spectre.

Renegade / Non spectre - The alliance will do everything they can and without the assistance of the council you will likely get forced into service to stop the reapers and no matter what you will get locked up for life or even given to the bartarians

[Aimi]

Um, why would a staff officer [Alenko] outrank a line officer [Shepard] of the same grade - especially when the line officer has an earlier date of rank?

Modifié par daqs, 30 avril 2011 - 07:43 .

[Shadowrun1177]

MisterJB wrote...

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

I don't see Ashley being like that cause Shepard may of had his Spectre status reinstated so would be a Spectre also and have seniority over Ashley.

Shepard's trial is on Earth. Hence, the Council removed his Spectre status.

I don't remember Bioware ever saying that Shepard's Spectre status being removed by the Council. Shepard is on trial on Earth cause he's a human and the Arrival mission was an "unofficial Alliance" mission from Hackett an Alliance Admiral.

[MisterJB]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

I don't remember Bioware ever saying that Shepard's Spectre status being removed by the Council. Shepard is on trial on Earth cause he's a human and the Arrival mission was an "unofficial Alliance" mission from Hackett an Alliance Admiral.

Saren was a turian and his trial was not on Palaven. Only the Council has authority over Spectres, if Shepard is being judged by an Alliance court, then he is no longer a Spectre.
Besides, Saren lost his status for much less than what Shepard did.