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[WizenSlinky0]

Rumor has it the reaper threat attacks during the actual trial. Which eliminates the possibility of demotion/promotion since you're unlikely to finish the actual trial.

The Council promotes spectre's, so it's tough to say why the VS got promoted and would likely depend on what choices you made.

Original Council- Promoted them due to services rendered and out of consideration for the fact Shepard saved their lives. Just because they don't want to be associated with him directly, does not mean they can't show indirect support by giving his former squadmate a cushy new job and title with power to work with him should the need arrive.

Human-led Galactic Council- With the original council gone, it's likely the galaxy would be even more paranoid for the need of additional skilled operatives to prevent similar things from happening. Just because Shepard is off his rocker to them, doesn't mean his squadmates are, and after helping save the galaxy they are certainly qualified.

Human-Only Council- Would appoint them to keep an eye on Shepard, nothing more, nothing less.

As for Shepard getting a promotion. Meh. He deserves one, but his rank doesn't really matter considering going against Shepard is a bad idea no matter what your rank.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 01 mai 2011 - 04:45 .

[SennenScale]

@laecraft

Well, that's an interesting angle. Such a drastic change in personality (for Ash maybe, being the no-nonsense soldier who hated politics) could explain the catsuit. And I could see a renegaded Kaidan playing politics.

[SennenScale]

I was in high school less than three years ago, so maybe I just have a high tolerance for melodrama? I love my best friend to death, but she's never been good at choosing boyfriends...yet I don't mind, don't even feel bothered/burdened by it when going out of my way to help her. I like playing therapist/lending an ear, I guess.

TBH I got a major broken pedestal vibe from the VS myself. Possibly because I never romanced either.

[omgodzilla]

I hope I am not forced to take orders from the Alliance or anyone else. I wanna be the boss. I wanna lay down the ****ing law.

[Antivenger]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Rumor has it the reaper threat attacks during the actual trial. Which eliminates the possibility of demotion/promotion since you're unlikely to finish the actual trial.

The Council promotes spectre's, so it's tough to say why the VS got promoted and would likely depend on what choices you made.

Original Council- Promoted them due to services rendered and out of consideration for the fact Shepard saved their lives. Just because they don't want to be associated with him directly, does not mean they can't show indirect support by giving his former squadmate a cushy new job and title with power to work with him should the need arrive.

Human-led Galactic Council- With the original council gone, it's likely the galaxy would be even more paranoid for the need of additional skilled operatives to prevent similar things from happening. Just because Shepard is off his rocker to them, doesn't mean his squadmates are, and after helping save the galaxy they are certainly qualified.

Human-Only Council- Would appoint them to keep an eye on Shepard, nothing more, nothing less.

As for Shepard getting a promotion. Meh. He deserves one, but his rank doesn't really matter considering going against Shepard is a bad idea no matter what your rank.

Agreed about the first two, though I don't really have an opinion on the Human-only council seeing as I always save the original one (save for my first play-through, but that was never imported to ME2). I think the Alliance might promote Shepard to Staff Commander, seeing as he's known across the galaxy as "Commander Shepard, Saviour of the Citadel" it wouldn't do good to change his title.

@laecraft & SennenScale: Really? really? You're associating being angry at someone for playing dead and becoming a terrorist with high school drama? Being bitter is one thing, but... really?

Modifié par Antivenger, 01 mai 2011 - 07:47 .

[SennenScale]

Antivenger wrote...

@laecraft & SennenScale: Really? really? You're associating being angry at someone for playing dead and becoming a terrorist with high school drama? Being bitter is one thing, but... really?

I didn't necessarily mean to equate it with high school drama, I just meant that drama helped me understand that people are very emotional, and I've been chewed out (not for terrorism, obviously) before thanks to said drama, so I've learned to not immediately get angry at people who snap at me without considering the circumstances. Instead of just dimissing the other person or calling them names, I try to step back and think "Wait...did I do something that  was wrong?" or  "Does this person have a legitimate grievance?"  Does that help? Thankfully, I got to learn that lesson in small scale rather than mess up more important conversations.

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 08:04 .

[ExtremeOne]

Antivenger wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Rumor has it the reaper threat attacks during the actual trial. Which eliminates the possibility of demotion/promotion since you're unlikely to finish the actual trial.

The Council promotes spectre's, so it's tough to say why the VS got promoted and would likely depend on what choices you made.

Original Council- Promoted them due to services rendered and out of consideration for the fact Shepard saved their lives. Just because they don't want to be associated with him directly, does not mean they can't show indirect support by giving his former squadmate a cushy new job and title with power to work with him should the need arrive.

Human-led Galactic Council- With the original council gone, it's likely the galaxy would be even more paranoid for the need of additional skilled operatives to prevent similar things from happening. Just because Shepard is off his rocker to them, doesn't mean his squadmates are, and after helping save the galaxy they are certainly qualified.

Human-Only Council- Would appoint them to keep an eye on Shepard, nothing more, nothing less.

As for Shepard getting a promotion. Meh. He deserves one, but his rank doesn't really matter considering going against Shepard is a bad idea no matter what your rank.

Agreed about the first two, though I don't really have an opinion on the Human-only council seeing as I always save the original one (save for my first play-through, but that was never imported to ME2). I think the Alliance might promote Shepard to Staff Commander, seeing as he's known across the galaxy as "Commander Shepard, Saviour of the Citadel" it wouldn't do good to change his title.

@laecraft & SennenScale: Really? really? You're associating being angry at someone for playing dead and becoming a terrorist with high school drama? Being bitter is one thing, but... really?

  





Lets get one thing straight  in ME 2 . The alliance is doing nothing about the reapers or the collectors . Shepard and Cerberus are doing something about it . Then these 2 pieces of sh*t want to chew Shepard out as if he or she is a alliance slave.  Thats not rigtht at all and its bull sh*t .  Shepard died and Cerberus brought him back . Oh and the alliance basically considered him dead . If those 2 ever get in my way again they will die .  Cerberus is not terrorist they get the job no matter what . 

[Made Nightwing]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Antivenger wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Rumor has it the reaper threat attacks during the actual trial. Which eliminates the possibility of demotion/promotion since you're unlikely to finish the actual trial.

The Council promotes spectre's, so it's tough to say why the VS got promoted and would likely depend on what choices you made.

Original Council- Promoted them due to services rendered and out of consideration for the fact Shepard saved their lives. Just because they don't want to be associated with him directly, does not mean they can't show indirect support by giving his former squadmate a cushy new job and title with power to work with him should the need arrive.

Human-led Galactic Council- With the original council gone, it's likely the galaxy would be even more paranoid for the need of additional skilled operatives to prevent similar things from happening. Just because Shepard is off his rocker to them, doesn't mean his squadmates are, and after helping save the galaxy they are certainly qualified.

Human-Only Council- Would appoint them to keep an eye on Shepard, nothing more, nothing less.

As for Shepard getting a promotion. Meh. He deserves one, but his rank doesn't really matter considering going against Shepard is a bad idea no matter what your rank.

Agreed about the first two, though I don't really have an opinion on the Human-only council seeing as I always save the original one (save for my first play-through, but that was never imported to ME2). I think the Alliance might promote Shepard to Staff Commander, seeing as he's known across the galaxy as "Commander Shepard, Saviour of the Citadel" it wouldn't do good to change his title.

@laecraft & SennenScale: Really? really? You're associating being angry at someone for playing dead and becoming a terrorist with high school drama? Being bitter is one thing, but... really?

  





Lets get one thing straight  in ME 2 . The alliance is doing nothing about the reapers or the collectors . Shepard and Cerberus are doing something about it . Then these 2 pieces of sh*t want to chew Shepard out as if he or she is a alliance slave.  Thats not rigtht at all and its bull sh*t .  Shepard died and Cerberus brought him back . Oh and the alliance basically considered him dead . If those 2 ever get in my way again they will die .  Cerberus is not terrorist they get the job no matter what . 

First off, I liked Cerberus in game. The Illusive Man was not your average moustache twirling villian, and I always view him as a reasonable man.

That being said: Cerberus a bunch of monsters. The things that they've done are completely inexcusable. Mass murder, corruption, and generally causing misery on a galactic scale. By their actions, they discredit humanity. Part of the reason the Alliance is now neutered, is because they have to work too hard to distance themselves from Cerberus actions.

If given the option, I will be forcibly retiring the Illusive Man and instating Miranda as the new head of Cerberus in ME3. She has a conscience, and knows what it means to care about somebody. She'll be a better director than the Illusive Man, although she'll have to grow into the role.

Second, I doubt the VS would question your orders while on the ship. That said, if you went to help them out on a mission, that THEY were assigned by the Council or the Alliance, I wouldn't object if they made it clear that on this occasion, THEY were calling the shots.  Personal responsibility should be encouraged by Shepard, not crushed as one of you haters so charmingly put it by "shoving a rifle up her ass and pulling the trigger."

[marshalleck]

I thought Shepard's promotion would be going independent in ME3. We had the Normandy SR-2 and EDI, one of the best pilots around (Joker), a very capable ground team (all the ME2 squaddies), and finally the intel and financial resources of the Shadow Broker. Shepard no longer needed the Alliance, the Citadel, or even Cerberus. But it looks like we're being shoe-horned back into being an Alliance marine. Meh.

Modifié par marshalleck, 01 mai 2011 - 08:50 .

[SennenScale]

Made Nightwing wrote...
Personal responsibility should be encouraged by Shepard, not crushed as one of you haters so charmingly put it by "shoving a rifle up her ass and pulling the trigger."

This. An old teammate goes "What The Hell Hero?" and her/his reward for being their own character outside of Shepard's shadow/unbendable to Shepard's will? Virulent hate.

[marshalleck]

SennenScale wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...
Personal responsibility should be encouraged by Shepard, not crushed as one of you haters so charmingly put it by "shoving a rifle up her ass and pulling the trigger."

This. An old teammate goes "What The Hell Hero?" and her/his reward for being their own character outside of Shepard's shadow/unbendable to Shepard's will? Virulent hate.

Some people have control/dominance issues. It's probably why they play make-believe as a space marine superhero. 

[WizenSlinky0]

The Cerberus issue is...interesting. There is no doubt that the illusive man goes well beyond what I would consider moral behavior, even in a situation of galactic war. I suppose you could justify it by saying this isn't just war, but threat of outright extinction. Still I disagree heavily with his "human first" agenda. I believe humans deserve to be an important part of galactic affairs, but the Council, however blind to the reapers...is a good way to go to encourage a fair government.

Cerberus would have humanity all but standing over the other races as their overlord.

Part of the horrid nature of Cerberus is explained through the independence of each Cerberus cell. Not *every* activity we've seen from them was sanctioned by Illusive Man. I do believe he knew about the majority of them though.

Cerberus trades bureaucracy for dictatorship by a mad man, even if Martin Sheen doesn't a damn fine job of playing him.

As for the love interest on Horizon...well here's the problem. They handled it horribly. The survivor had every right to question Shepard on their association with Cerberus, but their hostility was probably a bit too high. After working with Shepard so long it's fair to say they should have given him the benefit of the doubt EVEN when seeing him directly working for them.

I can see why they wouldn't join. I was a bit confused at the abrupt nature of their hostility. If anything, I figured someone more naive like Tali would have had that reaction. Except she had the more mature reaction I expected out of the survivor.

[SennenScale]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
As for the love interest on Horizon...well here's the problem. They handled it horribly. The survivor had every right to question Shepard on their association with Cerberus, but their hostility was probably a bit too high. After working with Shepard so long it's fair to say they should have given him the benefit of the doubt EVEN when seeing him directly working for them.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. If there's anything that feels slightly melodramatic (despite the Virmire survivor having every reason to call out Shepard), it was in the execution and writing of the scene, combined with the fact that this character is railing on you about a decision the game makes FOR YOU. And they never gave you a real chance to explain yourself. The VS can't possibly know that my paragon sole survivor didn't want to work with Cerberus but had no choice in the matter. It just went downhill from there.

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 09:31 .

[Nezzer]

General User wrote...

With London in such peril, maybe Shepard could save the city and get a knighthood!

Yeah, Shep should be called Ser Shepard and eventually become the Teyrn of the Earth.

[WizenSlinky0]

SennenScale wrote...

I think you hit the nail on the head there. If there's anything that feels slightly melodramatic (despite the Virmire survivor having every reason to call out Shepard), it was in the execution and writing of the scene, combined with the fact that this character is railing on you about a decision the game makes FOR YOU. And they never gave you a real chance to explain yourself. The VS can't possibly know that my paragon sole survivor didn't want to work with Cerberus but had no choice in the matter. It just went downhill from there.

Well it makes sense for them to not give you an option. It's still third-person narrative and the story of Shepard. For story purposes they couldn't really let you choose another way. The Council and Alliance had already been set up as basically thinking you're a lunatic.

But yes, you were basically offering no way to defend yourself, despite not exactly having much choice. You had no real conversation choices. I'd have liked to see a Renegade interupt where you basically grab them by the collar and say "Look, I'm not doing this because I like it, I'm doing this because no one else is going to save these colonists. Once this mission is over Cerberus is next."

I say Renegade, because Paragon's are more likely to let them stew and calm down before explaining themselves.

[SennenScale]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Well it makes sense for them to not give you an option. It's still third-person narrative and the story of Shepard. For story purposes they couldn't really let you choose another way. The Council and Alliance had already been set up as basically thinking you're a lunatic.

But yes, you were basically offering no way to defend yourself, despite not exactly having much choice. You had no real conversation choices. I'd have liked to see a Renegade interupt where you basically grab them by the collar and say "Look, I'm not doing this because I like it, I'm doing this because no one else is going to save these colonists. Once this mission is over Cerberus is next."

I say Renegade, because Paragon's are more likely to let them stew and calm down before explaining themselves.

It couldn't hurt to give us a chance to attempt it. Ask the council if you can go undercover and have them tell us "You're nutso."  As is, it really feels like we have no choice merely because the game says so.

As for the renegade suggestion, that is exactly the kind of option I wanted. The dialogue as is just set up a bad situation with the VS. They're kicking us while we're down and it makes people react badly.

[WizenSlinky0]

SennenScale wrote...

It couldn't hurt to give us a chance to attempt it. Ask the council if you can go undercover and have them tell us "You're nutso."  As is, it really feels like we have no choice merely because the game says so.

As for the renegade suggestion, that is exactly the kind of option I wanted. The dialogue as is just set up a bad situation with the VS. They're kicking us while we're down and it makes people react badly.

True. It couldn't hurt. But it would be a more or less fruitless endeveour leading to the same ultimate conclusion. They'd probably then get flamed for including such a pointless option and getting peoples hopes up.

But I think it could have been interesting if there was an option to offer to gather information on Cerberus for the Council, when getting Spectre status re-instated. As a head-bob to you're still on the good side, even if you're using the enemies resources.

And yeah, there's a lot of unused potential in that scene and the VS tends to show a degree of immurturity that shouldn't be present in a marine of their calibre. I'm hoping they really make up for it in ME3, and actually make them feel bad about it. Rather than "Oh yeah sorry about that business back on Horizon, but let's get to the flirting part".

[SennenScale]

Yes, that would be great. If everyone could just admit that Horizon went horribly wrong and we'll all be mature now, that would be better than a promotion. It would indicate a well-earned faith in Shep's judgement rather than having the VS bend to your will.

[SennenScale]

crimzontearz wrote...

.....and the fact that the
alliance tore down shepard making him look like a lunatic after his
death even if Ash was RIGHT THERE on Ilos possibly even talking to
vigil. That is even WORSE if she was your LI

laecraft wrote...
I have to wonder if VS were promoted to Spectre as a reward for disassociating themselves from Shepard. Or, less drastic, they severed ties with Shepard because they sensed it's going to hurt their position, and then they'd have to say good-bye to Spectre status.

It seems the VS did try to help prove Shepard's story even after the mess on Horizon. Can't say I stumbled across it myself, but maybe this will help?

http://social.biowar...64319/3#7264753

Maybe next time one of us is at that part in the game, we'll take a look and transcribe what was said?

[crimzontearz]

SennenScale wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

a "realistic reaction" that should be mitigated by the fact that she just survived from an attack from a race that the alliance is saying is not involved (or worse does not exist) and that Cerberus is actually fighting.....and the fact that the alliance tore down shepard making him look like a lunatic after his death even if Ash was RIGHT THERE on Ilos possibly even talking to vigil. That is even WORSE if she was your LI (thankfully I romanced Liara)

sorry it's freaking retarded

I never heard any dialogue saying Ash didn't defend you, and if she did, do you really think a ground soldier would be enough to change people's minds? A ground soldier who was associated with Commander Shepard? Anything the VS said was discounted out of hand. They still called you a hero to NPC, even, and their dialogue seems to point to the VS feeling "betrayed" by their almighty hero, Commander Shepard.

Also, remember that those colonists willingly left Alliance/Council space for the Terminus systems. Which is outside Alliance/Council jurisdiction. IIRC, some of the colonists are there for THAT VERY REASON. The only reason they need to be protected in the first place is because the colonists are being idiots. Not to say that I won't protect them regardless, but the alliance isn't actually obligated to help them. If I understand right, they can't without risking war, being part of the council races now. Unfortunate, but understandable.

The problem is that you're being called out on a decision you never made, IMO.

bull.

Ash knows about the reapers and arguably knows shepard VERY well

she knows the alliance is doing squat and she knows they threw mud at shepard from the moment he went MIA so rather than listening she goes "lalalalala can't hear you lalalala" on you even tho Garrus himself, a TURIAN, defends shepard and cerberus and tries to explain things to her and even tho Anderson is backing your ass up and apparently Hackett too. Lovely, Mature and definitely what I would expect from Ash....
Sure she does not have to drop everything she is doing and follow shepard but being less of a **** would have been a lot more understandable -you know like Wrex-

so...for all I care she can **** off in ME3 AND short of  huge turnaround  I am leaving her to rot on the normandy (assuming she does not try to pull ranks of course...in which case she will have an airlock accident)

Modifié par crimzontearz, 01 mai 2011 - 03:49 .

[ExtremeOne]

SennenScale wrote...

Yes, that would be great. If everyone could just admit that Horizon went horribly wrong and we'll all be mature now, that would be better than a promotion. It would indicate a well-earned faith in Shep's judgement rather than having the VS bend to your will.

  



Oh hell no what the VS did on horizon was wrong. Those 2 need to answer for their actions and if they are spectres so be it . They will be dealt with .  

[SennenScale]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Oh hell no what the VS did on horizon was wrong. Those 2 need to answer for their actions and if they are spectres so be it . They will be dealt with .  

I obviously disagree that they were in the wrong. I doubt either of us will ever agree on that subject, though, so I'd rather not get into that. It's fine if you want to deal with it your way, but I shall deal with the VS in whatever manner I deem appropriate if possible. I propose that I let your shep be and you let mine be.
----
Back on topic, I think a promotion won't do anything if the VS is a spectre. Pulling rank just doesn't seem like it will work. I think it will be used on a throwaway joke if at all. When Shepard busts out of that trial then beats the crap out of the Reapers, I think we'll finally get a little vindication for all our hard work. It would be cruel to not allow to chew out the Council in the final chapter.

Promotion would be a nice way to acknoledge Shepard's service, though.

[DarthSliver]

I dont think the VS would pull rank. I think the VS will maybe regret what they said to you a bit on Horizon after finding out what you were really doing than.

Also the Batarian thing wont be mentioned if you didnt do the DLC so the Trial is mainly focused on you working with Cerberus i think. I heard that somewhere but cant remember where, so if I am wrong feel free to correct me.

Modifié par DarthSliver, 01 mai 2011 - 06:45 .