47 réponses à ce sujet

[1483749283]

Ms. Kirby

First of all, I'd like to congratulate you on the wonderful work you've done on Merrill. The congratulations actually goes to the whole dragon age team. Dragon Age II really upped the level of NPC interaction in Bioware games from an unparalleled "very good" to "excellent." You were the best NPC writers before; now you're even better, though there's still lots of room for improvement (my only complaint is that I could have used even more banter between Hawke and NPCs, especially love interests). I hope you keep moving in this direction with your future games.

Here's my other comment regarding Merrill. I just finished my first playthrough with a Merrill friendship-romance and I thought it was fantastic. Then I viewed the Merrill rivalrly cutscenes on youtube and I was really taken aback. I felt that as a friend, Merrill never showed so much emotion for Hawke as she did as rival. I guess this isn't really a criticism. Many real people are this way too. However I did feel like I missed out... it was my fault I guess for not realizing that one could romance an NPC as rival as well as friend. I just wished my Hawke had experienced that level of emotional intensity from her from the point of view of a friendship. But perhaps Merrill just isn't that type.

[LobselVith8]

It's not surprising since she's berating Hawke for keeping an important tool from her that she believes can help her people, or when she kicks him out of her house in the Alienage. I liked Friendship, since it felt like Merrill finally had someone who believed in her and trusted her, and wasn't trying to force their opinion over hers.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Getting called a Shemlen in the rivalry path made me sad. I did enjoy seeing Merrill stand up to Hawke but the more I see of it the more it convinces me she's right about the Mirror and blood magic.

[Knight of Dane]

I disagree on the upped npc writing, there is not one of the characters in DA:2 that overrates any of them in Origins.
And you interact much less with them in this game too.

As for Merrill i disagree too, i like her friendship romance better as it seems she loves Hawke more, trusts him/her, has a share of beleif, understanding.

[mesmerizedish]

You know, Merrill has her own thread. We won't bite your head off for saying you don't like something about her, or you think one relationship path is superior. I promise.

[bleetman]

Knight of Dane wrote...

And you interact much less with them in this game too.

I don't really agree with that, to be honest. You interact with your companions considerably, there's just far less in the way of 'so, tell me about your life story' dialogue. They'll chip in with comments during quests far more frequently than they really did in Origins, where they tended to only contribute if you were about to do something they'd disapprove of.

As far as the whole rivalry/friendship thing goes, well. Yes. I'd agree, to a point. I much prefer the rivalmance, but I don't really see it as unexpected that rivarly romance - a relationship built on/alongside conflicting opinions regarding Merrill very-important-to-her life choices - produces more passionate scenes, in the sense of energetic or emotional dialogue, where friendship is more sweetness-and-light and Hawke is so dreamy. She's not got as much cause for anger or worry on the friendship path.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

You know, Merrill has her own thread. We won't bite your head off for saying you don't like something about her, or you think one relationship path is superior. I promise.

It's the ponies, I think. Ponies are intimidating

Modifié par bleetman, 30 avril 2011 - 09:12 .

[jlb524]

Pausanias wrote...

Here's my other comment regarding Merrill. I just finished my first playthrough with a Merrill friendship-romance and I thought it was fantastic. Then I viewed the Merrill rivalrly cutscenes on youtube and I was really taken aback. I felt that as a friend, Merrill never showed so much emotion for Hawke as she did as rival. I guess this isn't really a criticism. Many real people are this way too. However I did feel like I missed out... it was my fault I guess for not realizing that one could romance an NPC as rival as well as friend. I just wished my Hawke had experienced that level of emotional intensity from her from the point of view of a friendship. But perhaps Merrill just isn't that type.

I think she shows a lot emotion on both paths, but it's just more varied on the rival path as she has the whole, "Grrr, you pissed me off!" stage before the lovey dovey romance stuff kicks in.  The friend path is mostly lovey dovey but I think it's good stuff.

[Maria Caliban]

I think you've hit upon the popularity of overblown 'I hate you! I love you!' narratives.

Having someone be angry at their lover is emotionally exciting. Having two people enjoy one another's company and fall in love isn't as exciting.

That's why people write romances where lovers are constantly arguing with one another until you wonder why they're together at all.

[Mr.House]

I think both paths are well done, I prefer rival path but the friendship path is also well done.

[Knight of Dane]

bleetman wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

And you interact much less with them in this game too.

I don't really agree with that, to be honest. You interact with your companions considerably, there's just far less in the way of 'so, tell me about your life story' dialogue. They'll chip in with comments during quests far more frequently than they really did in Origins, where they tended to only contribute if you were about to do something they'd disapprove of.

Not true. The characters in Origins would interrupt conversations just as frequently as they do in this game, personal interaction between npc and pc has just been disabled.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 30 avril 2011 - 09:31 .

[Apathy1989]

I dunno it felt a bit forced in DAO to have 30 minutes of dialogue available on each companion once you meet them. I miss the amount of information you could get though, and wish they had gleaned it steadily over the course of the game more than they have.

[Maria Caliban]

My first game of Origins, I was like a rat in that experiment where if the rat hit a lever they get cocaine. The one where they'll starve themselves to death because they're too busy hitting the cocaine-lever to hit the food-lever.

Those poor rats. Do we really need to starve them to death to show that cocaine is addictive?

[1483749283]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...
 I did enjoy seeing Merrill stand up to Hawke but the more I see of it the more it convinces me she's right about the Mirror and blood magic.

This is why I chose the friendship. I support her. I believe there is a deep link between lyrium (used for regular magic) and blood (used for blood magic). It underlies whatever secret connection Mr. Gaider has cooked between Arlathan, the Black City, the Fade, the Taint, and the Darkspawn. As a result, I supported her efforts because I believed her research was taking her in the right direction. I saw my Hawke as trying to convince her to limit her use of Blood Magic to being a mere tool to the end of unraveling this great mystery at the heart of the saga.

Knight of Dane wrote...
I disagree on the upped npc writing, there is not one of the characters in DA:2 that overrates any of them in Origins.
And you interact much less with them in this game too.

Come now, surely you'll agree that multiple DA2 characters are better written than Sten or Oghren in DAO. And with regard to interactions, I believe that while there are fewere long conversations than in DAO, the conversations in DA2 probably add up to the same total length---they are just more interspersed. Furthermore, IMHO the DA2 conversations generally tend to be more distilled, in the sense that each word, on the average, does more to advance character development and does more emotional work than each word in DAO.

Knight of Dane wrote...
As
for Merrill i disagree too, i like her friendship romance better as it
seems she loves Hawke more, trusts him/her, has a share of beleif,
understanding.

I didn't say I liked her rival romance better, and I agree with you that Hawke is too tut-tut overbearing in the rival romance. I just said I liked Merrill's intensity in the rival romance. Seeing her get furious and worked up about Hawke was huge and revealed a whole other side of her that never really popped up in the friendship romance. And I wish it had somehow, because my Hawke believes in her and would much rather pursue the friendship romance.

Modifié par Pausanias, 01 mai 2011 - 07:52 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Meh-rrill. A good thing about this game was your family, but they cut that out too later on in the game.

I would have liked seeing more of my sibling after Act 1, but by attempting to make the story more 'tragic', they quickly and conveniently cut off most other ties. Even if Carver is a templar and should be free to do as he pleases ( yet I never see him ). Even if, as champion, my title should grant me some level of clearance so that I may at least SEE Bethany if she's in the Circle.

Building on the family aspect of the game would have been a far more interesting concept than 'gigglesquee' Merrill ever was.

[Knight of Dane]

Pausanias wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...
I disagree on the upped npc writing, there is not one of the characters in DA:2 that overrates any of them in Origins.
And you interact much less with them in this game too.

Come now, surely you'll agree that multiple DA2 characters are better written than Sten or Oghren in DAO. And with regard to interactions, I believe that while there are fewere long conversations than in DAO, the conversations in DA2 probably add up to the same total length---they are just more interspersed. Furthermore, IMHO the DA2 conversations generally tend to be more distilled, in the sense that each word, on the average, does more to advance character development and does more emotional work than each word in DAO.

The timeline in DA:2 works well with the character development - agreed.

More to the characters? Nope.

Those you mentioned yourself; both Oghren and Sten has considerably more to say in any regards than any DA:2 character. More depth, better stories and stronger personalities.

[Fieryeel]

I like both romance paths for Merrill. It really fleshes out her character.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Building on the family aspect of the game would have been a far more interesting concept than 'gigglesquee' Merrill ever was.

... I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic of this thread?

Anyway, back on topic: I haven't done Merrill's romance yet (always work my way through the guys first) but I thought her rivalry path was pretty interesting when platonic. Even though being called a shemlen made me .

Not sure I'll be able to romance her that way, though. Nine times out of ten, when I open my mouth to say 'blood magic is wrong and your deal with a demon is ill-advised!' what actually comes out is 'OMG you are so adorable!'

Modifié par Andrastee, 01 mai 2011 - 05:15 .

[1483749283]

Here's a question: is it possible to max out her rivalrly score before the mirror image quest, but then give her the Arulin'Holm and follow friendly options following that? Or does being a rival force you into the path of not helping her at all?

The romance cutscenes are substantially different with friendship vs. rivalrly... at which point do you get "locked into" one or the other?

[LobselVith8]

It's possible to gain full Friendship or Rivalry with Merrill before the Mirror Image quest. I've gotten full friendship with Merrill before the quest. Once you have either, it's locked into place.

[1483749283]

Yes I know that. But say you max out rivalry prior to mirror image. Is it still possible to turn around and 100% support her? In which case, do you still get all the angry Merrill dialogues, or do you get the friendly Merrill dialogues? They are completely different, even choreographed differently.

[Fieryeel]

You can't kill Merrill.

[DKJaigen]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

You know, Merrill has her own thread. We won't bite your head off for saying you don't like something about her, or you think one relationship path is superior. I promise.

But but..... its has so many ponies in them. scary ponies

[1483749283]

Fieryeel wrote...

You can't kill Merrill.

What does she do at the endgame if neither friend or rival? Does she just disappear?

If true, then yay. She deserves to be in the critical path down the line just as Morrigan did.

Modifié par Pausanias, 02 mai 2011 - 05:09 .

[LobselVith8]

Pausanias wrote...

Fieryeel wrote...

You can't kill Merrill.

What does she do at the endgame if neither friend or rival? Does she just disappear?

She challenges Hawke if he sides with the templars to kill the mages because she doesn't think murdering men, women, and children for an act Anders committed is the right course of action, and Hawke can kill her.