51 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Bible Doctor wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Do you think it would be a smart idea to kill Cullen? It would result in having every single templar in Kirkwall hunting down Hawke and his family.

If it meant keeping Bethany from getting tossed into the Gallows with the likes of rapists like Ser Karras and Ser Alrik? Yes.

Implying Ser Karras and Alrik must be rapists because they're sadists.



Edit - Actually Ser Karras can't really be defined as a sadist, just a Lawful Stupid douche.

Ser Alrik says he's going to make Ella tranquil and implies he's going to rape her (and Bethany refers to her as a child in her letter) when he says she'll do anything he asks when she's made tranquil, and Alain implies Ser Kerras is raping him when he says Kerras comes into his room late at night and threatens tranquility if he says anything.

[Giggles_Manically]

Which is why its so awesome to kill both of them!

[mhendon]

YESSS! Cullen! MOAR!

appreciation thread-- http://social.biowar...6/index/6669348

[Paraxial]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Ser Alrik says he's going to make Ella tranquil and implies he's going to rape her when he says she'll do anything he asks when she's made tranquil,

Didn't read that as a threat of sexual assualt, read it as him making all mages obedient when they're tranquil.

LobselVith8 wrote...
Alain implies Ser Kerras is raping him when he says Kerras comes into his room late at night and threatens tranquility if he says anything.

Didn't get that dialogue at all.

I'm reluctant to agree with you not because you may be making a point, but because you seem like the opinionated douche who has obviously sided with one faction over the other and jump to conclusions at every given opportunity. Also like someone who pulls the rape card whenever there is a threat of violence.

[LobselVith8]

Bible Doctor wrote...

Didn't get that dialogue at all.

Alain makes this comment in Act II in the Gallows, and he once again makes reference to this in his explanation for why he sided with Ser Thrask in Act III's "Best Served Cold." These issues have been discussed time and time again in the forum Official Campaign Quests and Story.

Bible Doctor wrote...

I'm reluctant to agree with you not because you may be making a point, but because you seem like the opinionated douche who has obviously sided with one faction over the other and jump to conclusions at every given opportunity.

I take it that discussing this with you in a mature manner is out of the question if you need to resort to name calling?

Bible Doctor wrote...

Also like someone who pulls the rape card whenever there is a threat of violence.

You'll have to excuse me, but I don't pull anything because of the threat of violence. You might not be familiar with the dozens of threads that have tackled this issues in the Official Campaign Quests and Story forum, but you are more than welcome to go there and inquire about these topics if you'd like.

All I did was address what many other people have discussed about these two particular templars, and all you provided was a snide picture as a retort instead of trying to discuss this like an adult. What I'm addressing is what plenty of other people have addressed about Ser Alrik and Ser Kerras, given what Alrik says in the quest Dissent to Ella (who, I need to repeat, is referred to as a child in Bethany's letter) and what Alain says at the Gallows about Kerras in Act II.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 01 mai 2011 - 05:13 .

[Paraxial]

LobselVith8 wrote...
*Cut*
(It was very long read, I had trouble with it. So many words, how do you go that? So many words.)

You know absolutely nothing for sure, you are making assumptions. Which would be fine if you weren't attempting to pass it off as fact. It angers me when people listen to Anders and hear the word 'rape' and automatically attribute it to every single threat a Templar makes, to every single act and practice a Templar has. It angers me because it is generalization, that is like hearing about a doctor sexually assaulting his/her patients and immediately swearing that all doctors were rapists. It also irks me when people site many threads and other peoples assumptions and opinions as their sources of information.

Both of those individuals are not nice guys or good people. That doesn't make them rapists, i'm not saying it is impossible that they are, but jumping to that conclusion just because they're Templars is ridiculous. This happens on these forums quite a bit, people hear that discussion that Anders and Sebastian have about the circle and they cling onto that one word, that one accusation that Anders makes of Templars. It makes it easier for people to demonize the Order and assume that every single Templar is a sadistic oppressor. Nobody takes the time to think it through and see that the accusation is coming from a man who is a bleeding hypocrite, to say the least. He complains and complains about how the Templars paint all mages with the same brush, and then he turns around and does the exact same thing. As for the pokes at my maturity level, I care so little right now. I'm playing a game and responded to this nonsense, coming off a bit young is very low on my priority list.

Generalizations irk me, and that is what your whole opinion is based on. Assumptions and generalizations.

Almost forgot, since you enjoyed the first image so much here is another. Enjoy it.

[LobselVith8]

I take it that you intentionally ignored what I read? Alrik implying that he would rape Ella (or do you think when he said that she would do anything that he wanted, that he meant doing his laundry?) and Alain saying that Kerras was coming into his room late at night and threatening to make him tranquil if he told anyone have nothing to do with Anders, Bible Doctor.

Addressing the repellant conduct of two characters doesn't demonize the templars when we have someone like Ser Thrask or Ser Otto to contrast them. Again, if you're unfamiliar with these discussions about the characters, you're welcome to inquire from others in the Official Campaign Quests and Story forum.

[IanPolaris]

Lob is right. I won't comment about Ser Kerras, but Ser Alrik is most definately a rapist. Don't just refer to that scene in Dissent with Ella. If you listen to the ambient conversations, you have one apprentice tell a good looking female tranquil, "but I loved you" and she replies, "We had an illicit relationship. Only Ser Arik can command me now."

I think along with the Ella case it's pretty cut-and-dried. Ser Alrik is a rapist in the same sense that a guy that puts Rohypnal (sp?) into a girl's drink to get her to sleep with him is a rapist at the very least.

-Polaris

[CalJones]

Hawke's humorous reply also seems to imply that Alrik is abusing his victims. I'd take that as confirmation.

[Augustei]

KristoffMcguffinSmuck wrote...

He shoudlve been a romance option in DA2!!! let alone DAO- no wait cullen come back! *laughs* If there is a DA3 then bioware you better make him a romance option
anyone else agree???

I know right, screw mages.. They aren't normal people like you and me =P

[Selenora]

Paper420 wrote...

Lol @ a game character having fangirls

Unbelievable....i know...

[Cutlass Jack]

Selenora wrote...

Paper420 wrote...

Lol @ a game character having fangirls

Unbelievable....i know...

Exactly. Everyone knows girls don't play computer games.

[_Aine_]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Exactly. Everyone knows girls don't play computer games.

[wanders in, discovers she doesn't exist....]

*poof*  

[LobselVith8]

AwesomeEffect2, I didn't doubt what you said about Bethany's codex, but it's vague while Bethany's letter makes it explicitly clear when she went through the Harrowing right after she was brought to the Gallows.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

If it meant keeping Bethany from getting tossed into the Gallows with the likes of rapists like Ser Kerras and Ser Alrik? Yes. [/quote]

- it’s not entirely confirmed that Ser Kerras and Ser Alrik are rapist [/quote]

There's not much room for interpretation when Ser Alrik tells Ella that she'll do anything he says when she's made tranquil, and I don't see what other interpretation there is for Alain stating that Kerras is coming into his room and warning that he'll make Alain tranquil if he tells anyone what happened.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

- you can kill both Ser Kerras and Ser Alrik [/quote]

Three years after Bethany is imprisoned in the Gallows, and she makes note in her letter that she's avoiding templars like Alrik who harrass mages.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

- Bethany is least likely to get harmed in the Circle than other mages. Her brother soon becomes a noble, a powerful and influential figure in Kirkwall. The templars would be idiots if they would try to do something. [/quote]

Bethany makes note that she intentionally avoids templars like Alrik, not that templars avoid her, and Hawke isn't the only noble to have a relative in the Circle of Kirkwall.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

- remember all the stories told about Hawke, his heroic accomplishments and what he does to his enemies? [/quote]

That doesn't stop Meredith from threatening Bethany in "On the Loose."

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

- Hawke helped the templars in few cases, especially when it was about blood mages. Why would the templars try to harm a relative of a man who helped the Order? [/quote]

Helping save Cullen's life didn't stop the Knight-Captain from tossing Bethany into the Gallows.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

- if Bethany joins the Circle she can only get harmed near the end of the game, which depends on Hawke's decisions. [/quote]

I'm not disputing this. I'm stating that if Hawke was going to take a chance on killing Cullen to protect Bethany from the Circle of Kirkwall, particularly after he's seen a Harrowed mage like Karl made tranquil illegally (which is confirmed by the letter from Ser Alrik that you can pick up from the lieutenant), then I honestly don't see much to stop him from taking that risk when he sees what can happen to mages at the hands of some templars.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Yet Ser Thrask was able to get Hawke's aid to prevent Ser Kerras from murdering the Starkhaven mages. [/quote]

Which resulted in… killing a dozen other templars. Sure, no problem there if you ask Cullen for a favor like that.

There is an option to avoid this killing but Grace does get captured eventually despite the templars not having her phylactery.

And maybe the templars already had Bethany’s phylactery or a sample of her blood which was needed to make one. [/quote]

You're missing my point, which is that Ser Thrask went out of his way to gain the assistance of Hawke even though it wasn't protocol. And killing Ser Kerras happens if he isn't persuaded, and given what he does to Alain, his death doesn't bother me.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

And Cullen threatened Hawke while he was arresting Bethany.[/quote]

Hawke can also threaten Cullen first but he doesn't seem to mind. [/quote]

Yes, Hawke can threaten Cullen, but Cullen does threaten Hawke.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Cullen threatened that he wouldn't do anything this time, which is probably because of Hawke's connection to the Viscount.[/quote]

This time, huh? Cullen didn’t do anything against Hawke when you talk about Ser Aldrik’s papers. [/quote]

Cullen had no evidence to go against Hawke. What was he going to do, arrest a noble on his suspicions?

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Or when told that Keran isn't possesed. [/quote]

Again, there's no evidence to arrest Hawke, particularly when he's purposefully vague about how Keran was tested, and this transpires in Act I.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Or when he finds out that Anders is a mage. [/quote]

Anders is protected because of Hawke's reputation, which Meredith makes explicitly clear in "On the Loose." 

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Or at the end when he stands up against Meredith. [/quote]

Which Cullen does even if Hawke is pro-mage and is killing templars to protect the mages and apprentices from them, which honestly doesn't make much sense.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

And Hawke barely had any connection to the Viscount. He was only a guy who collected a bounty for saving his son. [/quote]

I addressed it as a possibility, not as indisputable fact.

[quote]AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

The time Hawke starts getting notice from the Vicount happens once he becomes a noble, which is after Bethany gets taken to the Circle.
Also, the templars don’t answer to the Viscount, it’s more the other way around since Knight-Commander Meredith is the true power in Kirkwall. [/quote]

I never claimed the templars answered to the Viscount, but I can imagine his position would help somewhat since he is technically the ruler of Kirkwall, even though the templars are the real power over eastern Thedas.

[TheKristoffski]

Bible Doctor wrote...

I like Cullen, I wouldn't romance him but i'd love to have him as a companion in future DLC/expansions/sequels.

same here if there are future DLC's I want it to include morrigan also

[Abispa]

You know that spell Hawke does to the Arishock during the game startup video? If Morrigan does come back, I want to see Flemeth use that spell on her.

Oh, on the subject at hand: I like Cullen. I like the fact that he has a flaws and prejudices but doesn't let them totally overwhelm his desire to do the right thing. I'd like to see a DLC with him as the star or at least a major player.

Of course, my girlfriend thinks he's hot...

Forget what I said. I hate him. Grrr.

[Caja]

Paper420 wrote...
Lol @ a game character having fangirls

Why not? Alistair has got his own Facebook-Site .

On Topic:
Well, since Cullen isn't a companion in DA 2, I don't really want to romance him. But I gladly take the opportunity should it come up in a future Dragon Age game.

Modifié par Caja, 01 mai 2011 - 09:36 .

[Sabariel]

Oh, yes. Cullen would be such a great roma-bleargh!

Sorry. Threw up in my mouth a bit

[Critical Miss]

If Cullen is a romance in a future game, that means he would be a party member, and that means there could be a possibility of determining his future. Like selling him to a Tevinter magister. I would so love to do that.

[LobselVith8]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Three years after Bethany is imprisoned in the Gallows, and she makes note in her letter that she's avoiding templars like Alrik who harrass mages.

Of course she’s avoiding him. And Alrik can’t just tranquilize any random mage he bumps into. He does things illegaly but he needs at least one justification. Both Karl and Ella tried to escape from the Circle and he used that as an excuse. Bethany on the other hand keeps an impeccable record.
It should also be noted that there are mages like Grace who escaped from the Circle and were accused of blood magic but weren't made tranquil.

Ser Alrik claimed that Karl was dangerous and part of a rebellion, but his letter to Ser Bardel implies this is false because Bardel questions the accuracy of this and is refused the opportunity to speak to Knight-Commander Meredith about it by Alrik. Also, Ella only wanted to see her mother to tell her what happened - she said that her mother didn't know she was taken to the Circle, and Bethany refers to her as a child in her letter. Hawke has to convince her to leave Kirkwall after Tranquility is over in order for her to flee the city-state.

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

That doesn't stop Meredith from threatening Bethany in "On the Loose."

Why does she do that?

Meredith does it if Hawke refuses to accept the quest from Meredith.

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Again, there's no evidence to arrest Hawke, particularly when he's purposefully vague about how Keran was tested, and this transpires in Act I.

It hints on magic and Cullen shows his suspicion but decides not to go further.

Given the lack of evidence and how the Guard-Captain can be in Hawke's company when he says this, I don't see what course of action he could have taken.

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Anders is protected because of Hawke's reputation, which Meredith makes explicitly clear in "On the Loose."

It happened in Act 2. Cullen mentioned Anders was a mage when they were having some kind of dispute.

Considering Cullen arrests Bethany, I'd have to assume he thinks Anders is still a Grey Warden since they were both from the Circle of Ferelden. I don't see why he would arrest Bethany and not Anders if he was willing to give Hawke's companions a pass on being mages, and he makes it clear that mages can't be treated like people and are weapons.

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Which Cullen does even if Hawke is pro-mage and is killing templars to protect the mages and apprentices from them, which honestly doesn't make much sense.

*shrugs* A lot of things don’t make sense in Act 3.
Cullen is a reasonable man. He isn't a pro-mage like Thrask or a sadist like Ser Alrik. I’m not entirely sure but Cullen’s views seem to change as time passes.

It did make sense for him to turn against Meredith. He was questioning her actions and in the end she clearly showed that she was insane.

I agree, plenty of things didn't make sense in Act III. The smartest thing Hawke did was get the frak out away from the Hellmouth.