93 réponses à ce sujet

[aimlessgun]

Amidst leaving David at Overlord, killing Shiala, and letting refinery workers burn, true renegades will make decisions that award them little blue points.

-The true renegade never cuts off the Council. There is a tiny chance of being rewarded for your politeness, and the true renegade will gladly sacrifice a bit of time for that chance. True renegades seek victory at any cost, including the cost of being nice to those they despise. [EDIT] I think some people interpreted this as saving the council. I'm just talking about the briefings. The Destiny Ascension burns.

-The true renegade saves the Rachni Queen, because the true renegade never throws away a weapon, no matter how risky. Just like the Collector Base, saving the Queen is a worthwhile gamble in such a dire situation.

-The true renegade is not rude or disrespectful to their squadmates or crew: they are your tools, and your tools must be cared for so you can best use them in the coming battles. Harshness is only appropriate if it increases the effectiveness of a crewmember.

-The true renegade rewrites the Geth after continuing project Overlord.

-The true renegade keeps the genophage cure data, so they can use it as leverage against the council races.

-The true renegade makes Anderson the councilor over Udina, because while Udina may be a better politician, he doesn't truly believe in the Reapers. Anderson is also easier to influence and manipulate than Udina.

-The true renegade takes back their Spectre status. No advantage is turned down, no matter how small.

-The true renegade doesn't punch Al-Jilani. The true renegade never sacrifices long term harm for short term pleasure.

-The true renegade is different than a Renegon. A renegon makes some paragon decisions for paragon reasons. The true renegade makes paragon decisions for renegade reasons.


I'm probably missing some.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 30 avril 2011 - 11:08 .

[Alpha-Centuri]

So... The ultimate Renegade is... a Paragon? Genius!

[88mphSlayer]

what's the point of accepting spectre status when you can remain "officially dead"?

also what's the point of accepting help from sources likely to become a liability later on? even paragons make this same decision regarding TIM while renegades might make this choice regarding the council

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 30 avril 2011 - 10:17 .

[Magical Master]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

So... The ultimate Renegade is... a Paragon? Genius!

I think the OP's point is that if you use Renegade reasoning, there are at least several cases where it causes you to pick the Paragon option.

Edit: I should say "one form of Renegade reasoning."  The point is, you do something "Paragon" for an entirely different reason than what is assumed.

Modifié par Magical Master, 30 avril 2011 - 10:22 .

[aimlessgun]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

So... The ultimate Renegade is... a Paragon? Genius!

The true renegade will end up with some blue points. But the decisions I listed are not the sum of all the decisions in the game: I was able to renegade resolve Miranda/Jack and Tali/Legion, for example.

And like MM said, it isn't the blue points, it's the reasoning that matters.

88mphSlayer wrote...

what's the point of accepting spectre status when you can remain "officially dead"?

also what's the point of accepting help from sources likely to become a liability later on? even paragons make this same decision regarding TIM while renegades might make this choice regarding the council

Being dead is something a beauracrat can change once they get off their lazy asses. Plus most of the galaxy seems to know you're alive, and flying around blowing stuff up isn't exactly keeping that information on the down-low.

What sources are you talking about specifically?

Modifié par aimlessgun, 30 avril 2011 - 10:23 .

[88mphSlayer]

Magical Master wrote...

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

So... The ultimate Renegade is... a Paragon? Genius!

I think the OP's point is that if you use Renegade reasoning, there are at least several cases where it causes you to pick the Paragon option.

well sure but the paragon reasoning of going against Cerberus on fears of indoctrination would mean paragons should destroy the heretic geth

it's the reason rpg's would be better off without a paragon/renegade type meter because it's metagaming instead of roleplaying

[88mphSlayer]

aimlessgun wrote...

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

So... The ultimate Renegade is... a Paragon? Genius!

The true renegade will end up with some blue points. But the decisions I listed are not the sum of all the decisions in the game: I was able to renegade resolve Miranda/Jack and Tali/Legion, for example.

And like MM said, it isn't the blue points, it's the reasoning that matters.

88mphSlayer wrote...

what's the point of accepting spectre status when you can remain "officially dead"?

also what's the point of accepting help from sources likely to become a liability later on? even paragons make this same decision regarding TIM while renegades might make this choice regarding the council

Being dead is something a beauracrat can change once they get off their lazy asses. Plus most of the galaxy seems to know you're alive, and flying around blowing stuff up isn't exactly keeping that information on the down-low.

What sources are you talking about specifically?

because it's better for things to remain a rumor than to make your often morally questionable (especially from outsiders) or discretionary decisions official, especially since the galaxy doesn't officially believe in reapers or collectors

and by sources i mean the council, why would i want their help?

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 30 avril 2011 - 10:28 .

[ExtremeOne]

hey Op you sound like your renegade is a paragon.

[AngelicMachinery]

I typically will always spare the Rachni, the potential they have in conflict is just too good to ignore.

[ExtremeOne]

mrsph wrote...

This is essentially what my Shepard does. A "pure" renegade is hilariously wasteful and loves to burn bridges.

edit: Well outside of Overlord, the Heretics, and the Base. I dismantled those.

   


a true renegade does not give a sh*t

[Sajuro]

I really wish Bioware included the option for us to pick a renegade or paragon justification or reason for the big renegade or paragon choices. The closest we got to that is when Paragons can let the council die, not because the council was mean to them, but because they want to focus all their power on Sovereign. and i do not want to start a council save destroy debate.

[AngelicMachinery]

ExtremeOne wrote...

mrsph wrote...

This is essentially what my Shepard does. A "pure" renegade is hilariously wasteful and loves to burn bridges.

edit: Well outside of Overlord, the Heretics, and the Base. I dismantled those.

   


a true renegade does not give a sh*t

Can you please explain more,  I must hear the truth spilled forth from your rage fuelled fingers!

[ExtremeOne]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

mrsph wrote...

This is essentially what my Shepard does. A "pure" renegade is hilariously wasteful and loves to burn bridges.

edit: Well outside of Overlord, the Heretics, and the Base. I dismantled those.

   


a true renegade does not give a sh*t

Can you please explain more,  I must hear the truth spilled forth from your rage fuelled fingers!

    





A true renegade will do what ever he or she wants. With no fear of decisions or what anyone thinks. Plus renegades have no problem in dealing with those that is not needed or not liked . 

[Sajuro]

ExtremeOne wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

mrsph wrote...

This is essentially what my Shepard does. A "pure" renegade is hilariously wasteful and loves to burn bridges.

edit: Well outside of Overlord, the Heretics, and the Base. I dismantled those.

   


a true renegade does not give a sh*t

Can you please explain more,  I must hear the truth spilled forth from your rage fuelled fingers!

    





A true renegade will do what ever he or she wants. With no fear of decisions or what anyone thinks. Plus renegades have no problem in dealing with those that is not needed or not liked . 

so basically what mrsph wrote?

[ExtremeOne]

mrsph wrote...

So what is the difference in my way of renegading and yours? Other than you seem to be taking a more sociopathic path compared to me.

 



The only difference is that there is a touch of Extreme in what type true renegade I am in the game 

[aimlessgun]

ExtremeOne wrote...



hey Op you sound like your renegade is a paragon.

Watch the video in my sig and tell me she's a paragon. And she's actually a little more paragon than the character I'm describing in the OP.

88mphSlayer wrote...


because it's better for things to remain a
rumor than to make your often morally questionable (especially from
outsiders) or discretionary decisions official, especially since the
galaxy doesn't officially believe in reapers or collectors

and by sources i mean the council, why would i want their help?

I don't think being 'officially' dead is going to help when it's common knowledge. It certainly doesn't help in Arrival: the batarians definitely know you're alive and don't care a whit what your 'official' status is.

Because you don't just throw away help for no reason. Talking to the council does not strengthen them at all, so it's not like you're making them a bigger problem down the line.

ExtremeOne wrote...

a true renegade does not give a sh*t

And I don't.

Why do you think I destroyed the base when I could use it to fight the Reapers?

Or sacrificed human lifes to save the Council?

Or unleashed a horde of space locust on the galaxy?

Or shut down Cerberus projects?

The true renegade gives a **** about 1 thing: their continued survival. Which means they care about continued galactic survival. Which means they will do anything it takes to stop the reapers, including making nice to people if it furthers that end.

Sajuro wrote...

I really wish Bioware included the option for us to pick a renegade or paragon justification or reason for the big renegade or paragon choices. The closest we got to that is when Paragons can let the council die, not because the council was mean to them, but because they want to focus all their power on Sovereign. and i do not want to start a council save destroy debate.

That would be great and I very much agree.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 30 avril 2011 - 11:05 .

[aimlessgun]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Don't speak for me. Renegade isn't about taking risks, it is about minimizing them. Killing the rachni queen eliminates the possibility of her betraying us. Killing Wrex eliminates the possibility of him turning on you again. Same for Shiala, or Rana, or Fist, or any other character.

Blowing up the Heretics keeps us even with the geth, assuming we don't sell Legion to Cerberus anyway.

The Council was sacrificed, or deliberately killed, to ensure victory in the battle and to benefit humankind.

The Collector base was saved to reduce our chances of losing in the coming war. You have the risks backwards. Destroying the base is taking a greater risk than keeping it.

I think we're not so far apart, in that both of us are coming from the standpoint of brutal, efficient, hardheaded risk-reward calculations. But your risk/reward evaluations just came out different from mine in some cases.

We both realize the rewards of saving Wrex, Shiala, Fist and Rana are not large enough to justify possible risks (Wrex is a possible exception but you can't see into the future and know he will be leading the Krogan at the time). We both think the reward of human dominance and increased odds vs. Sov was worth killing the council over.

I think the rewards of having a Rachi army and more Geth to fight the Reapers outweigh the risks. You do not.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 30 avril 2011 - 11:19 .

[JeffZero]

With ample admiration: Your manifesto is well-written and although I am more 'paragade' than anything, I cannot help but agree on some counts.

[Reever]

Agreed!

But this is true as well: 

ExtremeOne wrote...

mrsph wrote...

This is essentially what my Shepard does. A "pure" renegade is hilariously wasteful and loves to burn bridges.

edit: Well outside of Overlord, the Heretics, and the Base. I dismantled those.

   


a true renegade does not give a sh*t