93 réponses à ce sujet

[88mphSlayer]

mrsph wrote...

This is essentially what my Shepard does. A "pure" renegade is hilariously wasteful and loves to burn bridges.

edit: Well outside of Overlord, the Heretics, and the Base. I dismantled those.

which is why it's stupid to ditch Cerberus amirite?

[Nashiktal]

You are right OP. In fact the very same reasoning can be applied to Paragon, provided you follow the guidelines that follow "model soldier."

Honestly sometimes I feel P and R is either not defined properly, or is simply non-applicable in some situations.

[Sajuro]

Nashiktal wrote...

You are right OP. In fact the very same reasoning can be applied to Paragon, provided you follow the guidelines that follow "model soldier."

Honestly sometimes I feel P and R is either not defined properly, or is simply non-applicable in some situations.

Because they are attempting to applied simple labels to a person's action which is the problem with all morality systems. Mass Effect does it better than KOTOR or Jade Empire by splitting it into two bars, which do it better than Bioshock and Fable 1 which do it better than Force Unleashed (lol on choices)
But the best of all was Dragon Age because there were no overall labels.

[Ultai]

ExtremeOne wrote...

mrsph wrote...

So what is the difference in my way of renegading and yours? Other than you seem to be taking a more sociopathic path compared to me.

 



The only difference is that there is a touch of Extreme in what type true renegade I am in the game 

Lol, I noticed the capital letter on extreme.  TO THE EXTREME!!!

/facepalm

[aimlessgun]

Nashiktal wrote...

You are right OP. In fact the very same reasoning can be applied to Paragon, provided you follow the guidelines that follow "model soldier."

I'd be interested to hear examples   Do up a list like this but in the opposite direction.

[marshalleck]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I typically will always spare the Rachni, the potential they have in conflict is just too good to ignore.

Potential, yes. Potential to be turned into another indoctrinated army for the Reapers as they were during the Rachni War. My canon Sheps always gas the queen, even though from a metagaming perspective I know Bioware will never in a million years punish their Paragons by having the Rachni come back indoctrinated. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 01 mai 2011 - 06:54 .

[aimlessgun]

marshalleck wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I typically will always spare the Rachni, the potential they have in conflict is just too good to ignore.

Potential, yes. Potential to be turned into another indoctrinated army for the Reapers as they were during the Rachni War. My canon Sheps always gas the queen, even though from a metagaming perspective I know Bioware will never in a million years punish their Paragons by having the Rachni come back indoctrinated. 

Another renegade reasoning path for sparing the queen is this: you don't know about the Reapers yet (not really, if you do Noveria early), and the Rachni queen represents not much risk and a lot of reward.

Best scenario: bug army personally loyal to Shepard.

'Bad' scenario that really isn't that bad: dangerous bug race that terrorizes the other council races, sowing chaos in the galaxy. Chaos is good for newcomers aka humans.

Actually bad scenario, unlikely: Rachni attack humans more than anyone else.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 01 mai 2011 - 07:04 .

[CroGamer002]

mrsph wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

a true renegade does not give a sh*t

And I don't.

Why do you think I destroyed the base when I could use it to fight the Reapers?

Or sacrificed human lifes to save the Council?

Or unleashed a horde of space locust on the galaxy?

Or shut down Cerberus projects?

Well both of you are telling the truth.

[HTTP 404]

okay....

its just a point system. pick blue you are paragon. pick red you are renegade. the one with the most red points are the most renegade-ist.

[Saber Wolf]

I like what I'm reading, I like this a lot. Bravo

[GodWood]

I'll begin by saying my Shepard is a renegade.

aimlessgun wrote...
-The true renegade never cuts off the Council. There is a tiny chance of being rewarded for your politeness, and the true renegade will gladly sacrifice a bit of time for that chance. True renegades seek victory at any cost, including the cost of being nice to those they despise. [EDIT] I think some people interpreted this as saving the council. I'm just talking about the briefings. The Destiny Ascension burns.

Disagree with the wording but the general gist is correct

-The true renegade saves the Rachni Queen, because the true renegade never throws away a weapon, no matter how risky. Just like the Collector Base, saving the Queen is a worthwhile gamble in such a dire situation.

Unleashing a race of bugs that breed faster than krogan, are more susceptible to indoctrination and are by their very nature impossible to effectively integrate into the galactic community (and thus both a short term and long term threat) is not a worthwhile risk in my eyes

Especially when one takes into consideration that at the time of the decision my Shepard had minimal knowledge of the Reapers and was unaware how dire the "Reaper Threat" was.

-The true renegade is not rude or disrespectful to their squadmates or crew: they are your tools, and your tools must be cared for so you can best use them in the coming battles. Harshness is only appropriate if it increases the effectiveness of a crewmember.

Correct

-The true renegade rewrites the Geth after continuing project Overlord.

Both options are pretty much equally valid.

Rewriting them gains Shepard a stronger geth army and can [possibly] give more insight into the Reapers.
Blowing them up destroys the chance of the heretics memories corrupting the current geth army.

-The true renegade keeps the genophage cure data, so they can use it as leverage against the council races.

Personally I'd rather keep Wrex's order in place so I can have a unified krogan army and not have krogan pillaging the galaxy post Reaper War.

-The true renegade makes Anderson the councilor over Udina, because while Udina may be a better politician, he doesn't truly believe in the Reapers. Anderson is also easier to influence and manipulate than Udina.

Although from a metagame perspective I prefer Udina, that is the in character reason for why I chose Anderson.

-The true renegade takes back their Spectre status. No advantage is turned down, no matter how small.

Correct

-The true renegade doesn't punch Al-Jilani. The true renegade never sacrifices long term harm for short term pleasure.

Correct

[corporal doody]

my renegade run..
-didnt kill the rachni queen. potential tool
-didnt keep the genophage cure (krogans have shown how dangerous in-mass they can be..besides,,a reasonable solution presents itself naturally in ME2)
-didnt kill Wrex...good ally..just need him to suck it up
-talked down to crew to enforce position of authority and to remind them that when Shep says die...you die for Shep!
-didnt cut off council once..but let them die.
-didnt pick Udina cuz the dude has his own agenda. Shep can get more stuff done with Anderson
- if the option for spectre status came up..shep would have said no...cuz he is too cool for school anyways
-didnt want the geth and quarians to go to war....more allies....GOTTA KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE!
-punched that nosy reporter...would shoot her if given the chance.

Modifié par corporal doody, 01 mai 2011 - 09:16 .

[marshalleck]

corporal doody wrote...

my renegade run..
-didnt kill the rachni queen. potential tool
-didnt keep the genophage cure (krogans have shown how dangerous in-mass they can be..besides,,a reasonable solution presents itself naturally in ME2)
-didnt kill Wrex...good ally..just need him to suck it up
-talked down to crew to enforce position of authority and to remind them that when Shep says die...you die for Shep!
-didnt cut off council once..but let them die.
-didnt pick Udina cuz the dude has his own agenda. Shep can get more stuff done with Anderson
- if the option for spectre status came up..shep would have said no...cuz he is too cool for school anyways
-didnt want the geth and quarians to go to war....more allies....GOTTA KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE!
-punched that nosy reporter...would shoot her if given the chance.

I think you missed the point of the thread

[corporal doody]

marshalleck wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

my renegade run..
-didnt kill the rachni queen. potential tool
-didnt keep the genophage cure (krogans have shown how dangerous in-mass they can be..besides,,a reasonable solution presents itself naturally in ME2)
-didnt kill Wrex...good ally..just need him to suck it up
-talked down to crew to enforce position of authority and to remind them that when Shep says die...you die for Shep!
-didnt cut off council once..but let them die.
-didnt pick Udina cuz the dude has his own agenda. Shep can get more stuff done with Anderson
- if the option for spectre status came up..shep would have said no...cuz he is too cool for school anyways
-didnt want the geth and quarians to go to war....more allies....GOTTA KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE!
-punched that nosy reporter...would shoot her if given the chance.

I think you missed the point of the thread

a true renegade doesnt care if he missed something!

[Merchant2006]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

So... The ultimate Renegade is... a Paragon? Genius!

Be the ultimate badass.
Do good things.
???
PROFIT

Modifié par Merchant2006, 01 mai 2011 - 09:25 .

[Markinator_123]

The intimidation option on the reporter is much more satisfying.

[dreman9999]

This is the true "Renegade's Manifesto...

With it's own theme song....


A renegade must do anything to safe guard the order of the universe. If anyone get in their way, they will be crushed.
The indivual is not important and if it between that person and the universe, It's the universe every time.

As renegades, we are above the law because we are the law.

As renegade we keep the scale of order balanced with a body count.

As renegades we are vigilance of order.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 mai 2011 - 01:17 .

[dreman9999]

corporal doody wrote...

my renegade run..
-didnt kill the rachni queen. potential tool
-didnt keep the genophage cure (krogans have shown how dangerous in-mass they can be..besides,,a reasonable solution presents itself naturally in ME2)
-didnt kill Wrex...good ally..just need him to suck it up
-talked down to crew to enforce position of authority and to remind them that when Shep says die...you die for Shep!
-didnt cut off council once..but let them die.
-didnt pick Udina cuz the dude has his own agenda. Shep can get more stuff done with Anderson
- if the option for spectre status came up..shep would have said no...cuz he is too cool for school anyways
-didnt want the geth and quarians to go to war....more allies....GOTTA KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE!
-punched that nosy reporter...would shoot her if given the chance.

Thats a renegon.

[TobyHasEyes]

Seems a bit ambiguous.. are we defining this 'Renegade motive' as acting to achieve best outcome for self, for the human race or for the galaxy?

[Anacronian Stryx]

True Renegade manifesto :

1.Do everything you can to chose the most childlike dimwitted solution to Any problem because you think that will make you seem cool, Edgy and rebellious.

2. Spend the rest of your day looking for justifications for your actions.

3. Profit?

[2kgnsiika]

You can't redefine what Paragon and Renegade mean in the ME universe. If some action gives you only Paragon points, then it is by definition a Paragon thing to do. You can't try to create a sort of a priori Renegade logic that prescibes what a "True" Renegade must do regardless of whether it gives you Paragon or Renegade points.

Which is to say that being a Renegade is not ultimately the same thing as being ruthless, merciless, efficient, uncompromising, a risk taker, etc. While there's no doubt that the devs try to make Renegade action conform to some sort of logic, the truth is that the only way to perfectly describe a Renegade is to make a list of actions that give Renegade points.

What you mean by "Pure" Renegade is therefore something else than Renegade.

[skcih-deraj]

[quote]aimlessgun wrote...

Amidst leaving David at Overlord, killing Shiala, and letting refinery workers burn, true renegades will make decisions that award them little blue points.

[/quote]


[/quote]
"-The true renegade never cuts off the Council. There is a tiny chance of being rewarded for your politeness, and the true renegade will gladly sacrifice a bit of time for that chance. True renegades seek victory at any cost, including the cost of being nice to those they despise. [EDIT] I think some people interpreted this as saving the council. I'm just talking about the briefings. The Destiny Ascension burns. "

[/quote]
 

Yep.


[/quote]

-"The true renegade saves the Rachni Queen, because the true renegade never throws away a weapon, no matter how risky. Just like the Collector Base, saving the Queen is a worthwhile gamble in such a dire situation."

[/quote]

Even though the rachni may be more prone to indoctrunation? And while the renegade sacrifices the council, would keeping the collector base further alienate the rest of the council races? Which would in turn leave us in a bad spot when the reapers show up.

[/quote]

-"The true renegade is not rude or disrespectful to their squadmates or crew: they are your tools, and your tools must be cared for so you can best use them in the coming battles. Harshness is only appropriate if it increases the effectiveness of a crewmember. "

[/quote]

Yep.

[/quote]

-"The true renegade rewrites the Geth after continuing project Overlord."

[/quote]

Yes. But dstroying the heretics and continuing the project puts humanity in a better position of control over them.


[/quote]

-"The true renegade keeps the genophage cure data, so they can use it as leverage against the council races."

[/quote]

Yep.

[/quote]

-"The true renegade makes Anderson the councilor over Udina, because while Udina may be a better politician, he doesn't truly believe in the Reapers. Anderson is also easier to influence and manipulate than Udina."

[/quote]

Yes on all points.


[/quote]

-"The true renegade takes back their Spectre status. No advantage is turned down, no matter how small. "

[/quote]

Yep. You'd be a silly renegade to turn down that advantage. It might have been small in the second game, but in ME3 I think being a spectre will become a more important tool than ever.


[/quote]

-"The true renegade doesn't punch Al-Jilani. The true renegade never sacrifices long term harm for short term pleasure. "

[/quote]

Yeah and its better to use the renegade option on her anyway. Better it is to plead your case with the galaxy watching. 


[/quote]

-"The true renegade is different than a Renegon. A renegon makes some paragon decisions for paragon reasons. The true renegade makes paragon decisions for renegade reasons. "

[/quote]

Exactly. But most stereotypical  renegades are permently stuck on stupid and don't think about this sort of thing. (All short term and no hindsight)

Modifié par skcih-deraj, 01 mai 2011 - 03:57 .

[SennenScale]

2kgnsiika wrote...

You can't redefine what Paragon and Renegade mean in the ME universe. If some action gives you only Paragon points, then it is by definition a Paragon thing to do. You can't try to create a sort of a priori Renegade logic that prescibes what a "True" Renegade must do regardless of whether it gives you Paragon or Renegade points.

Which is to say that being a Renegade is not ultimately the same thing as being ruthless, merciless, efficient, uncompromising, a risk taker, etc. While there's no doubt that the devs try to make Renegade action conform to some sort of logic, the truth is that the only way to perfectly describe a Renegade is to make a list of actions that give Renegade points.

What you mean by "Pure" Renegade is therefore something else than Renegade.

A little reinterpretation here and there is harmless. It doesn't seem like the OP is redefining Paragon and Renegade. Merely interpreting paragon options using renegade-ish (whatever that is taken to mean) reasoning.