As the title says, I am curious. When I first reinstalled NWN a couple years ago I joined Arelith in the RP PW channel and found a fantastic community of dedicated rpers. Since then I've been curious as to other ones and checked out a couple, witnessing in particular the grand efforts in Forgotten Realms Cormyr and Tales of the Silver Marches to use the CEP and maintain canonical FR accuracy (Something very important to me as a player, at least if the server is based on FR lore.) as well as a playerbase still interested in creating convincing characters and meaningful rp for the most part.
These days it seems like people are more interested in Action and, no offense intended, MMO-like PW servers where rp takes a backseat or isn't present at all. While we all probably point our fingers at the industry game-changers and P2P system, I don't think that alone is the issue.
I'm sure that some of you who have been here longer than myself have insight so please share. I'm not as interested in making a point here or railing against certain trends as I am in seeing other folk's responses.By all means, include your own preferences for servers so that others who wish to find 'great rp' can do so!
What RP or Story servers do you play?Are they becoming obsolete?
Débuté par
Metaldwarf
, mai 01 2011 01:24
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#2
Posté 01 mai 2011 - 04:29
Aleron
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Yuck. If I want an MMO, I'll go play one of the hundreds (if not thousands) out there.
Personally I come to NWN for the rp and D&D like experience. Roleplay, creating characters, and similar fun. So we have some in common there. I love DMing and when personal stories play a part in plotlines.
My main server is World Serpent Inn. Has all of the above, but also caters so that everyone can have fun. Action gamers can go out and kill as they like, but RPers get the fun plots and most DM attention since the team is focused and enjoy that the most. Small population but a passionate and dedicated team. Currently updating so we can use the PRC and the many options for players (classes, spells, epic spell system, etc) to create the exact PC you want. The free appearance crafting and haks that add tons of appearance options plus most races under the sun mean just about anything can be made (rarer stuff by application). Ever since I started over two years ago I've been hooked. We do tend to cater a bit more to the casual player that can't log in every day for 8 hours with easier leveling and gold that isn't so hard to find, which I know some people don't like though.
I do also have to give a nod to The Silver Marches since it is an interesting server and focused on RP as well. Good and friendly team though hard to break into in my experience as a newer player. While the server is friendly OOC and very welcoming, actually getting involved in storylines and the like was a bit hard. The good far outwayed that though and I would suggest any rp enthusiast give it a try as well.
Personally I come to NWN for the rp and D&D like experience. Roleplay, creating characters, and similar fun. So we have some in common there. I love DMing and when personal stories play a part in plotlines.
My main server is World Serpent Inn. Has all of the above, but also caters so that everyone can have fun. Action gamers can go out and kill as they like, but RPers get the fun plots and most DM attention since the team is focused and enjoy that the most. Small population but a passionate and dedicated team. Currently updating so we can use the PRC and the many options for players (classes, spells, epic spell system, etc) to create the exact PC you want. The free appearance crafting and haks that add tons of appearance options plus most races under the sun mean just about anything can be made (rarer stuff by application). Ever since I started over two years ago I've been hooked. We do tend to cater a bit more to the casual player that can't log in every day for 8 hours with easier leveling and gold that isn't so hard to find, which I know some people don't like though.
I do also have to give a nod to The Silver Marches since it is an interesting server and focused on RP as well. Good and friendly team though hard to break into in my experience as a newer player. While the server is friendly OOC and very welcoming, actually getting involved in storylines and the like was a bit hard. The good far outwayed that though and I would suggest any rp enthusiast give it a try as well.
#3
Posté 01 mai 2011 - 04:14
Fergoose
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Cue extended random personal thoughts. As always, apologies for any text formatting issues that may make this post look like a dog's breakfast. At the outset I’d say when in the mood, roleplaying with NWN is so much fun and so immersive that it makes even considering playing anything else almost impossible.
RP focussed servers require regular creativity and effort on behalf of players and staff alike to make them
fun. This is not an easy thing to maintain, even if you are fortunate to avoid
some of life’s banana skins.
Additionally, RP servers require a critical mass of players. Fall below a certain level and it can become stale,
with an ever decreasing circle of fresh interactions and associations. This understandably becomes more of an issue as more casual players drift away from an aging game and more new servers are made, diluting the existing player base. Add in the fact that game mechanics requires adventuring parties to be within a set range of levels (e.g. a level 15 partying with a level 1 is about as much fun as getting poked in the eye) and this problem is further exacerbated as it makes mingling new and old players on your server more difficult.
As a personal perspective, I also think I detect a trend of the years for playerbases to continually push for things to be easier and more instantly gratifying, primarily around increasing XP gain. I know of a number of places that have increased XP gain in an effort to attract more players. This invariably doesn’t work and removes the satisfaction that comes from a hard earnt level progression for your RP creation. Increased XP gain also appears to coincide with players make a flurry of multiple characters. This leads to a glut of characters who aren’t fully fleshed out and may fail to form strong bonds with other characters. For me, generally if a place starts to average more than 3 characters per player, its not a good sign. I do have difficulty putting my finger on these issues though (or perhaps am imagining them) but it does seem to coincide with things getting stale.
I only have a few possible solutions to the above issues that have been raised by others in the past I am sure, and are sadly easily countered by reality!
i) RP server hosts to collaborate with other teams.
Perhaps encourage forum and server hopping between a small community of servers that are broadly similar in their rules and preferences (i.e. they are likely to attract a similar type of player). If a DM or player gets burned out in one server, they may find a month or so in another community a shot in the arm to keep them interested in the game, reducing the chances of them drifting away forever.
This was tried with a server I was involved in many years ago and another fine server. DM’s switched over as players on the other server in both directions, player communities mingled and for a time there was a definite benefit. People tried another place they wouldn’t have otherwise tried in a million years. In the end it probably failed because of a lack of genuine spirit of cooperation, but at least folk tried.
Any closer cooperation, like servers combining their efforts in making a module are probably unrealistic and utopian, as nobody wants to share their “baby” with strangers or compromise on rules and game settings.
ii) More readily hand out DM client access to trusted players on the understanding that they will not initially have a say in the overall direction of the server (e.g. ruleset).
Nothing attracts and retains players like some DM attention, even if fairly modest. There does appear to be
a terror in the breast of many server admins about the consequences of a bad apple entering your DM team and ruining your server. I think this fear, although understandable, is a bit exaggerated. If a player has been kicking
about on your server for 6-12 months, you’ll have a good idea if they are at risk of morphing into a moron when they are given the DM keys.
Hire Assistant DMs on a trial basis with no voting rights and on the understanding that they will return to
the player base at the end of that period. Only consider hiring more fully if positive feedback is received after the trial period.
It is a myth that there is a giant divide in skill set between a DM and a player. Probably about 90% of what
they do overlaps, the former just requires more creativity, ability and better OOC people skills. Consider having a “guest DM” every two months or so, taken from the more longstanding and trusted elements of your player base. Maybe to run just a single campaign revolving around a part of the module that that player is particularly involved in (e.g. a guild or a race). DMing is not everyone's cup of tea ( I for one seem to far enjoy playing) but there are going to be folk in every player base who'd welcome a chance to have a pop at it (especially if aided by existing DMs).
Plus, DMs have more fun when other DMs are online. By restricting your DM team and preventing fresh blood joining the DM ranks, even on a trial basis, you are consigning all but the most abnormal, incredible, Terminator-esque DMs to a future of burnout.
iii) Consider DM anonymity
Consider shared DM accounts (both avatars and logins) to provide a degree of anonymity with the player base. Some people (and only some) seem more amenable to hopping on as a DM if they know they won’t get inundated with a bunch of questions and requests from their pals in the player base. Similarly, this allows the DM to hop on as a player from time to time for a change of pace, without getting hassled with questions for DMs. For some people the biggest causes of DM burnout appears not to so much the need to be RP creatively via the DM client, but more having to wade through requests and questions.
If DM accounts are anonymous then players are more likely to channel their questions and requests through a forum or perhaps just accept that they aren’t going to be perpetually spoon-fed by the team (made an error in character creation? Go and remake them rather than ask a DM to tweak them).
Obviously, you’d have to have mechanisms in place so that the host can identify which person has been logged
on as which DM account at a given time, so that you can identify who was involved if a player raises a complaint.
iv) Create or modify servers to have smaller level ranges
Servers with smaller level ranges (e.g. a server with a minimum of level 5 and a maximum of level 10) are rarely,
if ever seen (except for zombie survival ones it seems). The smaller the level range, the higher the proportion of characters that can actually venture out on an adventure together. Characters far apart in levels, that can’t adventure together will struggle to bond, regardless of who is playing them. As a new player, how inviting is it to log onto a new server and find out the other three players are all levels 10+? Not very. Imagine if you logged onto a server with a modest player base, knowing that you’d be able to go out and about with existing characters, without players having to switch to secondary or low-level friendly characters (which many players are not interested in doing). "But a narrow level range is boring" I hear you cry. Well, I and others rarely trouble double digits of levels on any RP server and have plenty fun.
The alternative of allowing or encouraging wide party ranges to party up, doesn’t, in my experience work. The adventures become tedious as either the low level can’t hit anything or the high level may be in no danger.
RP focussed servers require regular creativity and effort on behalf of players and staff alike to make them
fun. This is not an easy thing to maintain, even if you are fortunate to avoid
some of life’s banana skins.
Additionally, RP servers require a critical mass of players. Fall below a certain level and it can become stale,
with an ever decreasing circle of fresh interactions and associations. This understandably becomes more of an issue as more casual players drift away from an aging game and more new servers are made, diluting the existing player base. Add in the fact that game mechanics requires adventuring parties to be within a set range of levels (e.g. a level 15 partying with a level 1 is about as much fun as getting poked in the eye) and this problem is further exacerbated as it makes mingling new and old players on your server more difficult.
As a personal perspective, I also think I detect a trend of the years for playerbases to continually push for things to be easier and more instantly gratifying, primarily around increasing XP gain. I know of a number of places that have increased XP gain in an effort to attract more players. This invariably doesn’t work and removes the satisfaction that comes from a hard earnt level progression for your RP creation. Increased XP gain also appears to coincide with players make a flurry of multiple characters. This leads to a glut of characters who aren’t fully fleshed out and may fail to form strong bonds with other characters. For me, generally if a place starts to average more than 3 characters per player, its not a good sign. I do have difficulty putting my finger on these issues though (or perhaps am imagining them) but it does seem to coincide with things getting stale.
I only have a few possible solutions to the above issues that have been raised by others in the past I am sure, and are sadly easily countered by reality!
i) RP server hosts to collaborate with other teams.
Perhaps encourage forum and server hopping between a small community of servers that are broadly similar in their rules and preferences (i.e. they are likely to attract a similar type of player). If a DM or player gets burned out in one server, they may find a month or so in another community a shot in the arm to keep them interested in the game, reducing the chances of them drifting away forever.
This was tried with a server I was involved in many years ago and another fine server. DM’s switched over as players on the other server in both directions, player communities mingled and for a time there was a definite benefit. People tried another place they wouldn’t have otherwise tried in a million years. In the end it probably failed because of a lack of genuine spirit of cooperation, but at least folk tried.
Any closer cooperation, like servers combining their efforts in making a module are probably unrealistic and utopian, as nobody wants to share their “baby” with strangers or compromise on rules and game settings.
ii) More readily hand out DM client access to trusted players on the understanding that they will not initially have a say in the overall direction of the server (e.g. ruleset).
Nothing attracts and retains players like some DM attention, even if fairly modest. There does appear to be
a terror in the breast of many server admins about the consequences of a bad apple entering your DM team and ruining your server. I think this fear, although understandable, is a bit exaggerated. If a player has been kicking
about on your server for 6-12 months, you’ll have a good idea if they are at risk of morphing into a moron when they are given the DM keys.
Hire Assistant DMs on a trial basis with no voting rights and on the understanding that they will return to
the player base at the end of that period. Only consider hiring more fully if positive feedback is received after the trial period.
It is a myth that there is a giant divide in skill set between a DM and a player. Probably about 90% of what
they do overlaps, the former just requires more creativity, ability and better OOC people skills. Consider having a “guest DM” every two months or so, taken from the more longstanding and trusted elements of your player base. Maybe to run just a single campaign revolving around a part of the module that that player is particularly involved in (e.g. a guild or a race). DMing is not everyone's cup of tea ( I for one seem to far enjoy playing) but there are going to be folk in every player base who'd welcome a chance to have a pop at it (especially if aided by existing DMs).
Plus, DMs have more fun when other DMs are online. By restricting your DM team and preventing fresh blood joining the DM ranks, even on a trial basis, you are consigning all but the most abnormal, incredible, Terminator-esque DMs to a future of burnout.
iii) Consider DM anonymity
Consider shared DM accounts (both avatars and logins) to provide a degree of anonymity with the player base. Some people (and only some) seem more amenable to hopping on as a DM if they know they won’t get inundated with a bunch of questions and requests from their pals in the player base. Similarly, this allows the DM to hop on as a player from time to time for a change of pace, without getting hassled with questions for DMs. For some people the biggest causes of DM burnout appears not to so much the need to be RP creatively via the DM client, but more having to wade through requests and questions.
If DM accounts are anonymous then players are more likely to channel their questions and requests through a forum or perhaps just accept that they aren’t going to be perpetually spoon-fed by the team (made an error in character creation? Go and remake them rather than ask a DM to tweak them).
Obviously, you’d have to have mechanisms in place so that the host can identify which person has been logged
on as which DM account at a given time, so that you can identify who was involved if a player raises a complaint.
iv) Create or modify servers to have smaller level ranges
Servers with smaller level ranges (e.g. a server with a minimum of level 5 and a maximum of level 10) are rarely,
if ever seen (except for zombie survival ones it seems). The smaller the level range, the higher the proportion of characters that can actually venture out on an adventure together. Characters far apart in levels, that can’t adventure together will struggle to bond, regardless of who is playing them. As a new player, how inviting is it to log onto a new server and find out the other three players are all levels 10+? Not very. Imagine if you logged onto a server with a modest player base, knowing that you’d be able to go out and about with existing characters, without players having to switch to secondary or low-level friendly characters (which many players are not interested in doing). "But a narrow level range is boring" I hear you cry. Well, I and others rarely trouble double digits of levels on any RP server and have plenty fun.
The alternative of allowing or encouraging wide party ranges to party up, doesn’t, in my experience work. The adventures become tedious as either the low level can’t hit anything or the high level may be in no danger.
Modifié par Fergoose, 01 mai 2011 - 04:20 .
#4
Posté 01 mai 2011 - 05:58
Gregor Wyrmbane
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Since you asked.... ;^)
I started playing D&D in the 70's, when I was a younger man. I've played a lot of PnP campaigns over the years with various folks, but I didn't start playing NWN online until 2007. I've rolled up a lot of PC's under various logins on a lot of different servers since then. Ask a hundred players what 'proper' RP is, and you'll get a hundred different answers. It's a very subjective issue. There are a lot of differing PW environments out there to choose from. That's a good thing.
Likes:
I like a PW where everyone stays IC on the talk and party channels. Tells are for chatting OOC.
I like a PW where the players and staff make you feel welcome no matter how long you've been playing there.
I like a PW that allows you to play whatever style you prefer as long as you don't disrupt anyone else's fun.
I like a PW where the DM's like to pop in and surprise you and your party with little encounters now and again.
I like a PW where the main focus of the players and staff is for everyone to have fun.
Dislikes:
I don't like a PW where the players are arrogant/elitist and the staff have serious control issues.
I don't like a PW where people are constantly chatting OOC on the talk or party channels.
I don't like a PW where the players and staff insist that you build/play your PC the way they think you should.
I don't like a PW where the DM's spend more time 'policing' everyone's RP than spicing up their adventures.
I don't like a PW where the main focus of the players and staff is making sure everyone is RP'ing 'properly'.
Huge, server wide epic DM events are nice once in a while, but they're not necessary for me to have a good time. Sometimes when I log on to a server, I have several hours to play and I like to party up with folks and have a lot of fun RP'ing and adventuring together. However, sometimes I only have a half hour to play and I just want to go out solo, bash some monsters, and grab some loot. It's nice to find a PW that allows you to do either without labeling you as a "hardcore RP'er", or a "powergamer". I've been playing D&D long enough that I don't need someone else to tell me how to build/play my PC. These days I can generally read the rules and changes list for a server and decide before I ever roll up a PC whether or not I'll fit in there.
The two servers I play on the most right now are Thain, and Nexus. I still try others from time to time, but those two seem to be the most consistent at providing me with the environment I like.
I started playing D&D in the 70's, when I was a younger man. I've played a lot of PnP campaigns over the years with various folks, but I didn't start playing NWN online until 2007. I've rolled up a lot of PC's under various logins on a lot of different servers since then. Ask a hundred players what 'proper' RP is, and you'll get a hundred different answers. It's a very subjective issue. There are a lot of differing PW environments out there to choose from. That's a good thing.
Likes:
I like a PW where everyone stays IC on the talk and party channels. Tells are for chatting OOC.
I like a PW where the players and staff make you feel welcome no matter how long you've been playing there.
I like a PW that allows you to play whatever style you prefer as long as you don't disrupt anyone else's fun.
I like a PW where the DM's like to pop in and surprise you and your party with little encounters now and again.
I like a PW where the main focus of the players and staff is for everyone to have fun.
Dislikes:
I don't like a PW where the players are arrogant/elitist and the staff have serious control issues.
I don't like a PW where people are constantly chatting OOC on the talk or party channels.
I don't like a PW where the players and staff insist that you build/play your PC the way they think you should.
I don't like a PW where the DM's spend more time 'policing' everyone's RP than spicing up their adventures.
I don't like a PW where the main focus of the players and staff is making sure everyone is RP'ing 'properly'.
Huge, server wide epic DM events are nice once in a while, but they're not necessary for me to have a good time. Sometimes when I log on to a server, I have several hours to play and I like to party up with folks and have a lot of fun RP'ing and adventuring together. However, sometimes I only have a half hour to play and I just want to go out solo, bash some monsters, and grab some loot. It's nice to find a PW that allows you to do either without labeling you as a "hardcore RP'er", or a "powergamer". I've been playing D&D long enough that I don't need someone else to tell me how to build/play my PC. These days I can generally read the rules and changes list for a server and decide before I ever roll up a PC whether or not I'll fit in there.
The two servers I play on the most right now are Thain, and Nexus. I still try others from time to time, but those two seem to be the most consistent at providing me with the environment I like.
Modifié par Gregor Wyrmbane, 01 mai 2011 - 06:14 .
#5
Posté 01 mai 2011 - 07:40
AngelRogue
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I've been away from playing the last couple of months due to my computer going down. But before it did, I was trying out a few servers. I used to be on and play all the time on a couple of the old Dragonlance servers and have spent some time jumping from here to there. But before I left I tried out Cormanthor, The World Serpent Inn, and Ravenloft. Ravenloft- Prisoners of the Mist was the best of the three. The DMs were very active and there was a lot of good RP. Cormanthor and World Serpent Inn both had the same problems. They were beautiful worlds, but the players do a good job of trying to run players off who do not fit thier cookie cutter idea of what characters should look like. Especially World Serpent Inn. There were some seriously bad behaviour from the players and DMs. So I strongly suggest Ravenloft and say to check out Cormanthor for how beautiful it is. And as I roam the servers, I will continue to make suggestions.
#6
Posté 01 mai 2011 - 07:57
TSMDude
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Satisfied owner of BG 1&2, KOTOR, NWN 1. Owner of NWN2.
^^^^That is some funny stuff right there btw. ^^^^
I played on a lot of worlds. I DMed on several. I have been in some shape or form a part of about 10 to 15 different role playing PWs or Persisitent Story PWs. And yes, even one social server....ahem...
For the last two or so have been on the aforementioned tales of the Silver Marches and realized that wow...there is so much we can do and have not done yet. Scripting, building...this or that...
Yet what it comes down to is the Base. Not just the players. Not just the Quest Leaders. Not Gygax, Greenwood, or Salvatore. Not even my old friends from the PnP days who we went to the same colleges and stayed up later than late over the weekends when sensible people were drinking and running naked through briar patches...
What drives me is the Realms itself. It is like an itch that needs to be scratched over and over again.
Even now, with our smaller numbers in the teens and sometimes even single digits I find myself glued to this screen and this toolset remaking the entire North Realms for people to explore...to fit our Lore we have crafted for the Realms. It...excites me as I sit there reading books and listening to the Last of the Mohicans soundtrack or a hodegpodge of music like the song from the lass in King Arthur.
I know that our players are excited and scared and filled with trepidation but I also know they will spread out as they always do as we reinvent the server every few years(no we dont wipe server vaults, lol) and try and explore what is out there to find that Explorer XP points.
I know we had one player who we lost to real life finally who would spend hours walking around in first player JUSt to see the server. What an awesome compliminet it was.
I do not know other servers as much as I used to. I know what I have been told and what I have seen but I do know this...I may miss the old players who we may have lost to graphics or real life or combos of both but I truly am glad for the friends I have met in my travels and the things i have seen.
Role Playing will never become obsolete. It is the best of pure escapism and if we were just text lines on a screen ala Pool of Radiance...I bet we would still see some of you there.
^^^^That is some funny stuff right there btw. ^^^^
I played on a lot of worlds. I DMed on several. I have been in some shape or form a part of about 10 to 15 different role playing PWs or Persisitent Story PWs. And yes, even one social server....ahem...
For the last two or so have been on the aforementioned tales of the Silver Marches and realized that wow...there is so much we can do and have not done yet. Scripting, building...this or that...
Yet what it comes down to is the Base. Not just the players. Not just the Quest Leaders. Not Gygax, Greenwood, or Salvatore. Not even my old friends from the PnP days who we went to the same colleges and stayed up later than late over the weekends when sensible people were drinking and running naked through briar patches...
What drives me is the Realms itself. It is like an itch that needs to be scratched over and over again.
Even now, with our smaller numbers in the teens and sometimes even single digits I find myself glued to this screen and this toolset remaking the entire North Realms for people to explore...to fit our Lore we have crafted for the Realms. It...excites me as I sit there reading books and listening to the Last of the Mohicans soundtrack or a hodegpodge of music like the song from the lass in King Arthur.
I know that our players are excited and scared and filled with trepidation but I also know they will spread out as they always do as we reinvent the server every few years(no we dont wipe server vaults, lol) and try and explore what is out there to find that Explorer XP points.
I know we had one player who we lost to real life finally who would spend hours walking around in first player JUSt to see the server. What an awesome compliminet it was.
I do not know other servers as much as I used to. I know what I have been told and what I have seen but I do know this...I may miss the old players who we may have lost to graphics or real life or combos of both but I truly am glad for the friends I have met in my travels and the things i have seen.
Role Playing will never become obsolete. It is the best of pure escapism and if we were just text lines on a screen ala Pool of Radiance...I bet we would still see some of you there.
#7
Posté 01 mai 2011 - 07:58
TSMDude
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#8
Posté 01 mai 2011 - 08:17
Aleron
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AngelRogue wrote...
I've been away from playing the last couple of months due to my computer going down. But before it did, I was trying out a few servers. I used to be on and play all the time on a couple of the old Dragonlance servers and have spent some time jumping from here to there. But before I left I tried out Cormanthor, The World Serpent Inn, and Ravenloft. Ravenloft- Prisoners of the Mist was the best of the three. The DMs were very active and there was a lot of good RP. Cormanthor and World Serpent Inn both had the same problems. They were beautiful worlds, but the players do a good job of trying to run players off who do not fit thier cookie cutter idea of what characters should look like. Especially World Serpent Inn. There were some seriously bad behaviour from the players and DMs. So I strongly suggest Ravenloft and say to check out Cormanthor for how beautiful it is. And as I roam the servers, I will continue to make suggestions.
Sorry for your bad experience. It's true your style of rp and playing didn't exactly fit the server and playerbase, though I'm still sorry you seem to have got such a bad opinion of us. We do strive for lore and consistency in the world and in keeping with "realistic" fantasy world. Which is actually one of the things I value when I play in a persistent world, myself. NPCs that act and react correctly and with a consistent feel.
In any case, good luck with your search for a server more suiting to your taste and RP style.
#9
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 04:30
Jenna WSI
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I only come to NWN for the roleplaying.. never have been into the MMO style. I think it offers a great platform for people who aren't in the same area, that still want to play together, or people who have busy schedules that find it easier to plunk down on the computer instead of doing an intensive gaming session at another person's house.
As for WSI, to be honest we were a little overly anal about some things when it came to character stories or pc types. I'll be honest there. The balance between keeping a world somewhat true to canon and believable.. and then accidentally shooing people away by saying 'no' too often.. it's not easy. But we're working on it, and on being more relaxed without allowing say, the vampire princess drow half celestial pcs. The staff has changed a bit, and we're rebuilding the world... lots of changes, hopefully for the better.
As for other servers, I greatly enjoy the roleplaying on Arelith's underdark server, but not the server design at all. Not very realistic or beautiful, and leveling is harder than I want to deal with. But, GREAT community. Pretty much the only one of the larger servers I've seen so far that tried to keep roleplay fitting to the setting, and were very serious about rp.
As for WSI, to be honest we were a little overly anal about some things when it came to character stories or pc types. I'll be honest there. The balance between keeping a world somewhat true to canon and believable.. and then accidentally shooing people away by saying 'no' too often.. it's not easy. But we're working on it, and on being more relaxed without allowing say, the vampire princess drow half celestial pcs. The staff has changed a bit, and we're rebuilding the world... lots of changes, hopefully for the better.
As for other servers, I greatly enjoy the roleplaying on Arelith's underdark server, but not the server design at all. Not very realistic or beautiful, and leveling is harder than I want to deal with. But, GREAT community. Pretty much the only one of the larger servers I've seen so far that tried to keep roleplay fitting to the setting, and were very serious about rp.
Modifié par Jenna WSI, 02 mai 2011 - 04:31 .
#10
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 02:08
Arinoch
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I play NWN for the RP as well. There aren't too many places to find quality RP, and indeed it's very difficult to find with the increasingly aged NWN and players who want quick satisfaction.
Still, I play on The Way Inn now for the same reasons several previous posters play on their respective servers: satisfaction in the quality of the game and the RP. I want each level to matter and feel like an accomplishment. I like that when I find an interesting magic item it doesn't have to be +6 to not get tossed aside. I like that when I wander around the landscape I feel like I've got the original Baldur's Gate kind of open world feel. And, of course, I like the RP that I've been involved in for the past year and a half.
I have to agree with Jenna as well, though I've not DMed for years - there's a fine line between allowing RP freedom and allowing RP that just shatters the world. If everyone can make whatever character they want, on the scale of "vampire princess drow half celestial", then nothing in the world seems special. The regular old human that doesn't sparkle seems boring, and few would likely pay attention to their actually-normal problems.
I think players have to be aware of the difficulty in balancing such and accept that rules are not put in place because DMs are evil, but because special should remain special and magic should remain magic. Even in a magical world, if everyone's running around with a glowing +8 sword of destruction, why the heck did anyone ever become a farmer? Even fantasy worlds should make some sense.
In terms of the original question and things becoming obsolete, I know The Way Inn is currently taking suggestions for their next hak pack, for example, to put in more feats to take it more in line with the 3.5 ruleset and balance out certain aspects of classes. There would be good reasons for sticking with pure classes as much as multiclassing, for example. Based on the previous posts, it sounds like there are several other servers that are doing a good job of keeping up with similar things as well.
That kind of build balance is important - I remember another RP server I played on, which only rarely allowed epic characters (had to be DM-chosen), still had an epic RDD running around with devastating critical. That you're fighting an epic RDD for IC reasons is difficult/cool enough without getting one-hit-kills for free that completely break the enjoyment (and I'm one of those masochistic RPers who generally don't mind bad things happening to my characters, as that tends to promote solid character growth). So yes, servers should keep up with new content, I think, as well as RP involvement, so that the servers don't become stale. Again, easier said than done.
Still, I play on The Way Inn now for the same reasons several previous posters play on their respective servers: satisfaction in the quality of the game and the RP. I want each level to matter and feel like an accomplishment. I like that when I find an interesting magic item it doesn't have to be +6 to not get tossed aside. I like that when I wander around the landscape I feel like I've got the original Baldur's Gate kind of open world feel. And, of course, I like the RP that I've been involved in for the past year and a half.
I have to agree with Jenna as well, though I've not DMed for years - there's a fine line between allowing RP freedom and allowing RP that just shatters the world. If everyone can make whatever character they want, on the scale of "vampire princess drow half celestial", then nothing in the world seems special. The regular old human that doesn't sparkle seems boring, and few would likely pay attention to their actually-normal problems.
I think players have to be aware of the difficulty in balancing such and accept that rules are not put in place because DMs are evil, but because special should remain special and magic should remain magic. Even in a magical world, if everyone's running around with a glowing +8 sword of destruction, why the heck did anyone ever become a farmer? Even fantasy worlds should make some sense.In terms of the original question and things becoming obsolete, I know The Way Inn is currently taking suggestions for their next hak pack, for example, to put in more feats to take it more in line with the 3.5 ruleset and balance out certain aspects of classes. There would be good reasons for sticking with pure classes as much as multiclassing, for example. Based on the previous posts, it sounds like there are several other servers that are doing a good job of keeping up with similar things as well.
That kind of build balance is important - I remember another RP server I played on, which only rarely allowed epic characters (had to be DM-chosen), still had an epic RDD running around with devastating critical. That you're fighting an epic RDD for IC reasons is difficult/cool enough without getting one-hit-kills for free that completely break the enjoyment (and I'm one of those masochistic RPers who generally don't mind bad things happening to my characters, as that tends to promote solid character growth). So yes, servers should keep up with new content, I think, as well as RP involvement, so that the servers don't become stale. Again, easier said than done.
#11
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 05:07
AngelRogue
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Well from my experience on WSI, we did NOT play anything crazy or unrealistic. It was that we did not DRESS toned down that we were pushed out. My gf was called a wh0re and a few other terms just because her character wore somewhat revealing clothing. Nothing unappropriate, just something with a lot of straps. We both played regular elves, just evil, and the clothes was enough to cause an almost server wide persecution. That is why I advise against WSI. Not for them not allowing silly character concepts. We are very serious roleplayers and it's not like we pushed for anything that you wouldn't expect on any roleplay server. We would sit in the Inn area waiting for people to come interact with us only to either be ignored, excluded from DMed roleplay events on purpose, and called names.
#12
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 06:44
Gregor Wyrmbane
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@ AngelRogue,
Dude/Dudette.... just let it go. Find a couple of servers you like, and move on. I used to play on WSI a while back, but I don't anymore. The bottom line is I didn't fit in there. You and your GF didn't fit in either, it sounds like. But to come into a thread like this and continue to bash the server/community because you feel you weren't treated fairly is juvenile. Others can figure out for themselves whether or not they fit in there. Life is too short to obsess over a PW when there are hundreds out there to choose from. Let it go.
Dude/Dudette.... just let it go. Find a couple of servers you like, and move on. I used to play on WSI a while back, but I don't anymore. The bottom line is I didn't fit in there. You and your GF didn't fit in either, it sounds like. But to come into a thread like this and continue to bash the server/community because you feel you weren't treated fairly is juvenile. Others can figure out for themselves whether or not they fit in there. Life is too short to obsess over a PW when there are hundreds out there to choose from. Let it go.
Modifié par Gregor Wyrmbane, 02 mai 2011 - 07:51 .
#13
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 07:14
NWN DM
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Oh the high drama....AngelRogue wrote...
Well from my experience on WSI, we did NOT play anything crazy or unrealistic. It was that we did not DRESS toned down that we were pushed out. My gf was called a wh0re and a few other terms just because her character wore somewhat revealing clothing. Nothing unappropriate, just something with a lot of straps. We both played regular elves, just evil, and the clothes was enough to cause an almost server wide persecution. That is why I advise against WSI. Not for them not allowing silly character concepts. We are very serious roleplayers and it's not like we pushed for anything that you wouldn't expect on any roleplay server. We would sit in the Inn area waiting for people to come interact with us only to either be ignored, excluded from DMed roleplay events on purpose, and called names.
#14
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 07:18
TSMDude
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NWN DM wrote...
Oh the high drama....
I have decided to rename NWN DM to Kelso as he always seems to have the words high or joint in his post...
*goes off to make brownies*
#15
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 12:03
Aelis Eine
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Gregor Wyrmbane wrote...
@ AngelRogue,
Dude/Dudette.... just let it go. Find a couple of servers you like, and move on. I used to play on WSI a while back, but I don't anymore. The bottom line is I didn't fit in there. You and your GF didn't fit in either, it sounds like. But to come into a thread like this and continue to bash the server/community because you feel you weren't treated fairly is juvenile. Others can figure out for themselves whether or not they fit in there. Life is too short to obsess over a PW when there are hundreds out there to choose from. Let it go.
I think what AngelRogue is saying is fair comment. Players should be entitled to know what other players like and dislike about a server before they invest the time in creating a character concept, bio, even a name. This can sometimes take hours, which could be better spent doing something else if they had known beforehand what the server's culture is like.
Not singling out WSI in particular - some PWs have an overzealous censorship policy, deleting negative threads on their forums to make them look good. If you remember the old NWN forums, some PWs engage in astroturfing too. Someone would create a thread about a PW and suddenly an army of people that have never posted on the forums before all chime in with stellar reviews of the server.
Bioware Social is a neutral ground, and the bad reviews balance things out. I want to read about them just as much as I want to read the good.
Metaldwarf wrote...
These days it seems like people are more interested in Action and, no offense intended, MMO-like PW servers where rp takes a backseat or isn't present at all. While we all probably point our fingers at the industry game-changers and P2P system, I don't think that alone is the issue.
I don't think I've seen any new MMO-style PWs sprouting up lately, at least, not populated ones. In my own thread I was looking for an Action server because I wanted a break from RPing and all the drama, cliquism and sometimes excessive waiting that entails. The Roleplay tab at that time felt like more of the same too - FR, FR, FR, anime, Dragonlance, Anphillia clone, Nordock clone, Rhun clone, Ravenloft, Zombie Survival, FR. It still is, that's why I'm playing something other than NWN while checking back and hoping a game-changer shows up. I miss the old days when there were good servers with custom settings.
#16
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 12:07
Jenna WSI
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An npc didn't want to hire them on for a job because they were blantantly evil/weird and had that spider robe thing going on. I'm sorry but NPCs should react and I still don't blame the DM for having the NPC not trusting people who .. don't look trustworthy at all. Instead of seeing it as a negative situation, you could have specifically made it a character goal to build up trust in the people of this area and do deeds to get recognition and fame.
I didn't see any evidence of the entire server (players and dms included) turning against you or pushing you out of every rp situation, etc. In fact I was one of the dms that watched and helped you through some dungeons. So really... this is stupid to post here, especially since I admitted we're human and are working on our issues. Like everyone else says, give it a rest. Picking at one server after you've already given a review of it just seems petty at this point. If you want to talk to me about it in PMs, that'd be the best option from here on out. Sorry you left with a bad impression, peace.
I didn't see any evidence of the entire server (players and dms included) turning against you or pushing you out of every rp situation, etc. In fact I was one of the dms that watched and helped you through some dungeons. So really... this is stupid to post here, especially since I admitted we're human and are working on our issues. Like everyone else says, give it a rest. Picking at one server after you've already given a review of it just seems petty at this point. If you want to talk to me about it in PMs, that'd be the best option from here on out. Sorry you left with a bad impression, peace.
Modifié par Jenna WSI, 03 mai 2011 - 12:14 .
#17
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 12:18
Jenna WSI
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Arinoch wrote...
I have to agree with Jenna as well, though I've not DMed for years - there's a fine line between allowing RP freedom and allowing RP that just shatters the world. If everyone can make whatever character they want, on the scale of "vampire princess drow half celestial", then nothing in the world seems special. The regular old human that doesn't sparkle seems boring, and few would likely pay attention to their actually-normal problems.
If everyone is special, no one is. But then, say no too often and you become the boogeyman. We've got a unique setting where being a bizarre subrace isn't too out of cannon. We just don't want it to become nutty. So we've done things like allowing tails for races like tieflings something that you don't need to jump through hoops to get.. but for wings you'd need a good write up request. I'm interested to hear what other server admin think and how they deal with this problem.
Modifié par Jenna WSI, 03 mai 2011 - 12:18 .
#18
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 01:40
Aleron
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Aelis Eine wrote...
I think what AngelRogue is saying is fair comment. Players should be entitled to know what other players like and dislike about a server before they invest the time in creating a character concept, bio, even a name. This can sometimes take hours, which could be better spent doing something else if they had known beforehand what the server's culture is like.
Not singling out WSI in particular - some PWs have an overzealous censorship policy, deleting negative threads on their forums to make them look good. If you remember the old NWN forums, some PWs engage in astroturfing too. Someone would create a thread about a PW and suddenly an army of people that have never posted on the forums before all chime in with stellar reviews of the server.
Bioware Social is a neutral ground, and the bad reviews balance things out. I want to read about them just as much as I want to read the good.
While I can see what you are saying, how exactly do you explain a server's culture? Additionally, this isn't something that stays static. It changes and evolves as the server does with the players that are on it. What that culture is one month can vastly differ from the next. Speaking as someone who has been on a PW for a long period you see ebbs. One month, evil PCs and tieflings are a fad. A few month later you've got paladins and aasimar in majority. The next month it can switch back or to something entirely different. I'm not sure how you can convey that without seeing it for yourself.
The server has changed a lot since the time they played (around six months ago now) so I think it is wise to take everything with a grain of salt. What is one person's experience won't necessarily be someone else's. That goes for good and bad reviews. I will point out you only covered the people that skew the appearance of the server for the good. There are just as many that do the opposite, trolls and people bearing a grudge that create accounts and suddenly show up to vote a server down or make it look bad. It goes both ways.
Does it balance out? I'm not so sure.
Modifié par Aleron, 03 mai 2011 - 01:40 .
#19
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 08:14
SuperFly_2000
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Actually I have felt it to be the other way around.Metaldwarf wrote...
These days it seems like people are more interested in Action ....
Some roleplaying servers/communities are the ones that are really big....and tend to atract players just because of that as well.
They are usually really tight knit. It is players who have played together like forever and playing on the server has detoriated into some kind of social drama....
I am trying to find good server with "adventuring"....might sound easy ....but it isn't. With adventuring I mean a mix of roleplaying and action....and a world where necessary OOC like partying up etcetera is not frowned upon.
#20
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 11:33
Aelis Eine
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Aleron wrote...
While I can see what you are saying, how exactly do you explain a server's culture? Additionally, this isn't something that stays static. It changes and evolves as the server does with the players that are on it. What that culture is one month can vastly differ from the next. Speaking as someone who has been on a PW for a long period you see ebbs. One month, evil PCs and tieflings are a fad. A few month later you've got paladins and aasimar in majority. The next month it can switch back or to something entirely different. I'm not sure how you can convey that without seeing it for yourself.
The server has changed a lot since the time they played (around six months ago now) so I think it is wise to take everything with a grain of salt. What is one person's experience won't necessarily be someone else's. That goes for good and bad reviews. I will point out you only covered the people that skew the appearance of the server for the good. There are just as many that do the opposite, trolls and people bearing a grudge that create accounts and suddenly show up to vote a server down or make it look bad. It goes both ways.
Does it balance out? I'm not so sure.
What you described is the server's culture, but in an IC sense. However, I was referring to the attitudes, beliefs and values of a server's staff and players, i.e. the OOC aspect. This culture reflects what the power hierarchy of that server is like, how decisions are made, what the norms are and how new players should adapt. These are things that cannot be seen without playing for an extended period of time, but can still be related in words. For example, "The DMs went out of their way to make sure I didn't feel left out in the event, despite my low level" or "In my two weeks here I was completely ignored by other players, who seemed content to stand around town in hoods, pretending to be AFK until a DM showed up."
Of course, both IC and OOC culture can both vary over time, but OOC culture tends to be a more resillient, usually changing only when there is a big shakeup somewhere in the hierarchy - whether at the player, staff or admin level. Timeliness of a review is still important, and if you feel the server you represent has been wronged or has changed since the date of the review, you can step forward and say that. That's exactly what you did, so I'd say it balances out.
Modifié par Aelis Eine, 03 mai 2011 - 11:35 .
#21
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 01:48
Gregor Wyrmbane
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Aelis Eine wrote...
I think what AngelRogue is saying is fair comment. Players should be entitled to know what other players like and dislike about a server before they invest the time in creating a character concept, bio, even a name. This can sometimes take hours, which could be better spent doing something else if they had known beforehand what the server's culture is like.
Perhaps, but hijacking someone else's thread isn't the way to do it. If AngelRogue want's to expend all their time and energy bashing WSI they should start their own thread. I doubt the OP appreciates all the back and forth bickering here between the involved parties.
#22
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 01:54
SuperFly_2000
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It's not really "hi-jacking" if you just write one comment about a server...as this thread...after all....is about servers....
#23
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 02:15
Gregor Wyrmbane
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SuperFly_2000 wrote...
It's not really "hi-jacking" if you just write one comment about a server...as this thread...after all....is about servers....
Exactly. "One comment" would have been acceptable.
#24
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 02:30
Aleron
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I'm quite happy to let it drop. In the end, it was a simple fact that people did not see eye to eye. This happens. It seems to have worked out for everyone in any case, as they have found a server more akin to what they were seeking.
As for the comments about NWN going more toward action, I really do prefer a mix. If I wanted straight up action I've got dozens of other games I can play for that. I come to NWN for the stories, rp, and community of likeminded people. While no server is perfect, you can usually find one that suits your taste and views. If not? You can always make your own too which is awesome. Real shame you can't do it in other games too!
As for the comments about NWN going more toward action, I really do prefer a mix. If I wanted straight up action I've got dozens of other games I can play for that. I come to NWN for the stories, rp, and community of likeminded people. While no server is perfect, you can usually find one that suits your taste and views. If not? You can always make your own too which is awesome. Real shame you can't do it in other games too!
Modifié par Aleron, 03 mai 2011 - 02:31 .
#25
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 05:32
muvs32
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SuperFly_2000 wrote...
Actually I have felt it to be the other way around.Metaldwarf wrote...
These days it seems like people are more interested in Action ....
Some roleplaying servers/communities are the ones that are really big....and tend to atract players just because of that as well.
They are usually really tight knit. It is players who have played together like forever and playing on the server has detoriated into some kind of social drama....
I am trying to find good server with "adventuring"....might sound easy ....but it isn't. With adventuring I mean a mix of roleplaying and action....and a world where necessary OOC like partying up etcetera is not frowned upon.
I agree with your statements Superfly. NwN PW's are a great platform to get up a party and adventure/RP but it would take a sceduled (probably closed/app) campaign to really have me invest the amount of time needed to establish multi-demensional character with complete backstory ext. I would like to find again what you are looking for and if you have found it, I wouldn't mind hooking up with you there sometime.
I had won role player of month on a couple servers and DMed and such but I had much more time to devote to it at that time. (2008-9) These past years later I have seen a number of old timer, like me(36) retire to life and families or become mostly action (WoGreyhawk) players only, or switched to W0W.
I love NwN more for nostalgia then anything I guess.I am finding it daunting to crack into a lenghtly campaign on a PW and would love to find a decent homebrew mod or even FR if it is not Salvator/canon ruled only. My belief is RP should advance RP, not literature. Finding again a homebrew world with good RP and relaxed attitude would be a treat...Avlis looks intriguing but all that lore collected from all those years online is intimidating.
Things being what they are I have decided to join a PnP game to get a real RP fix, we'll see how it goes as I have not done so in 20 years. It will at least be interesting .
Be well all, Muvs.
